If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
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- Fionordequester
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If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
...Does his family seem to think so highly of him? And why do we have moments like all the links below? Just thinking about how they react to him coming back in the Buu Saga...I dunno, they're rating of Goku seems pretty positive to me:
Chi-Chi is the first one Goku thinks about when neutralizing Beerus's attack
Gohan tells Chi-Chi about Goku returning
Chi-Chi fondly remembers marriage, honeymoon, and family life
Everyone flips out when they see Goku at the tournament
I mean, I've read the interviews, I've heard the podcasts, and I know for a fact that MasakoX et. al know exactly what they're talking about. But it still seems like there's an enormous disconnect between Goku's supposed failings and what we're presented with on-screen.
Chi-Chi is the first one Goku thinks about when neutralizing Beerus's attack
Gohan tells Chi-Chi about Goku returning
Chi-Chi fondly remembers marriage, honeymoon, and family life
Everyone flips out when they see Goku at the tournament
I mean, I've read the interviews, I've heard the podcasts, and I know for a fact that MasakoX et. al know exactly what they're talking about. But it still seems like there's an enormous disconnect between Goku's supposed failings and what we're presented with on-screen.
Last edited by Fionordequester on Mon May 22, 2017 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
Well, I guess the only conclusions we can come to is that Goku is actually a nice guy or everyone else in the gang are degenerates.
Retired.
Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
In-universe, Goku is normally regarded as a great guy by his peers. Outside of select disagreements he's had with others, everyone will eventually find themselves on his page. Discussions tailored towards his actions out of context and as a third party tend to condemn or fail to consider how the characters feel when using oneself's standards as a base.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
Goku is like a puppy.... no matter how much difficult he makes life for you, you just can't hate him. He's that likeable.
The only thing I hate is when the story and his fanboys try to romanticize his actions or less charming traits.
The only thing I hate is when the story and his fanboys try to romanticize his actions or less charming traits.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
Because they're written to think that way.Fionordequester wrote:...Does his family seem to think so highly of him? And why do we have moments like all the links below? Just thinking about how they react to him coming back in the Buu Saga...I dunno, they're rating of Goku seems pretty positive to me:
Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
I believe Goku is an extremely charismatic guy, that's why he's held in such high regards by everyone and is able to make friends with most of his enemies.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
You can find many examples in real life of families sticking together, despite certain members of that family despite not behaving in an "adequate" manner.
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Goku, Yamcha, Krillin, Tien, Chiaotzu, Yajirobe, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Android 18, Goten, Trunks and Majin Buu.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
Gokû's already an anomaly in shounen manga; most main characters in the genre never get to age into adulthood, and when they do it's usually at the series finale.
Among those that do get to become adults before the series ends, fewer get married and even fewer get divorced. Usually you'd have one runaway deadbeat parent, or one parent who's dead if you're going about splitting up a fictional couple.
Japan's having problems getting people to marry at all; showing Chi-Chi divorcing Gokû wouldn't be in their best interests, even if Toriyama himself said Gokû'd be alright living on his own.
Among those that do get to become adults before the series ends, fewer get married and even fewer get divorced. Usually you'd have one runaway deadbeat parent, or one parent who's dead if you're going about splitting up a fictional couple.
Japan's having problems getting people to marry at all; showing Chi-Chi divorcing Gokû wouldn't be in their best interests, even if Toriyama himself said Gokû'd be alright living on his own.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
The fandom seems to have the impression of Goku being a deadbeat dad and husband who is never there for his family. The TFS memes about Piccolo being Gohan's dad and such probably don't help, either.
The problem with this is that we only ever see the exciting actiony stuff, when Goku has to fight or train or get himself killed. It's easy to think Goku is always dead or always off fighting or training if you don't ever see the time they spend as a family off-screen.
The problem with this is that we only ever see the exciting actiony stuff, when Goku has to fight or train or get himself killed. It's easy to think Goku is always dead or always off fighting or training if you don't ever see the time they spend as a family off-screen.
Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
Because the fandom has been blinded by memes and casual fans think TFS is canon
Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
Because you can still love someone even if they have major faults. Goku isn't going to win dad of the year award any time soon, but it doesn't stop Gohan loving his dad. Nor is he the most attentive husband in the series, but that doesn't stop Chi-Chi loving him. They may call him out on his crap occasionally though.
It's very easy to write it off as a TFS thing, but Super's been pushing a narrative that isn't entirely different from that popular fan interpretation.
Super's had plenty of slice of life moments where Goku has evaded his family to go train even when there's no threat. Super isn't exactly having Goku hang with his kids for the sake of hanging with them either; he gets bored watching Gohan's big hollywood debut, he uses Goten to do his work for him so he can train in the first episode rather than spend time with him, he temporarily somehow forgets Gohan exists in one episode of the ToP arc whilst talking to Vegeta about who should enter the prelims thinking Vegeta means Goten when he's talking about asking his son to compete. He only takes an interest in his kids when they're wanting to train or fight, and doesn't engage with them very much outside this.Adrian Malacoda wrote:The fandom seems to have the impression of Goku being a deadbeat dad and husband who is never there for his family. The TFS memes about Piccolo being Gohan's dad and such probably don't help, either.
The problem with this is that we only ever see the exciting actiony stuff, when Goku has to fight or train or get himself killed. It's easy to think Goku is always dead or always off fighting or training if you don't ever see the time they spend as a family off-screen.
It's very easy to write it off as a TFS thing, but Super's been pushing a narrative that isn't entirely different from that popular fan interpretation.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
I wouldn't say he's inadequate spouse. He gave chi chi everything she ever wanted. Gohan and Goten have a hero for a dad so they think that's coolest thing ever. Why would they have reason to feel any animosity towards goku?
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
They like Goku cause he usually saves the day. Sure he is a horrible father, husband, and friend. Goku defeating the person who is threatening the world-universe usually outdoes the stupid and reckless acts he commits.
Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
I couldn't agree more with you.Dbzfan94 wrote:Because the fandom has been blinded by memes and casual fans think TFS is canon
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
Going by DB and Z (I have no familiarity with Super), Goku kinda gets himself killed a lot, which tends to impact one's ability to spend time with their family. As mentioned earlier, we have several timeskips of non-action moments where Goku would logically be spending more time with them, like the seven years after the 23rd Tournament, the two years before the Androids show up, and the ten year skip after the Buu arc. To specifically deconstruct the ending, I always interpreted it that Goku was leaving the Tournament specifically, as there really isn't anything stopping him from visiting them. Heck for all we know he's flying off to Mount Paoz and back to his house for training, leaving plenty of time to spend with Chi-Chi, Gohan and Goten.
My big problem is that nobody ever seems to call out Chi-Chi. She's a terrible mother and wife in the first half of Z, and is basically a complete asshole towards Goku and absolutely refuses to sympathize with the situation, to the point where Yajirobe (YAJIROBE) asks Goku if he can hit her for it. Why does nobody ever call that out?
My big problem is that nobody ever seems to call out Chi-Chi. She's a terrible mother and wife in the first half of Z, and is basically a complete asshole towards Goku and absolutely refuses to sympathize with the situation, to the point where Yajirobe (YAJIROBE) asks Goku if he can hit her for it. Why does nobody ever call that out?
Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
The TFS memes about Piccolo being Gohan's dad and such probably don't help, either.
Dbzfan94 wrote:Because the fandom has been blinded by memes and casual fans think TFS is canon
Didn't Toriyama and his former editor sorta-kinda add fuel to that fire themselves? About how Goku regards his family and then the editor mention something about Piccolo being like a surrogate father. I doubt those two know anything about TFS. This whole debate/joke has been around for far longer than TFS.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
Goku wasn't meant to be a bad father, but some things written for the sake of the gags/plot made him unintentionally unsympathetic. It's evident in Super when writers devoted screentime to show him in family context, making Son a family with a quirks who deal with it for better or worse.
In Spoiler you have some real-life PSA, since this thread seem to operate on false assumption that may have real life repercussions
[spoiler]Abuse in relationship doesn't look like Family Guy episode- it comes in shades and circles that confuse victims and witnesses. Somebody can be abusive in one way and seemingly perfect in another (eg. parent who never physically hit the kid and cheers for every success, but use verbal violence in case of failure, spouse who withhold money unless everyone obeys.). It's also not constant- classical circle involves abuser being sorry after episode and begging for another chance or "triggered" by something and gaslighting victims. And children do love abusive parents, do everything to cover their bad situation. The misconception that you can spot the abuser from the distance actually kills people so I allowed myself to write it here.[/spoiler]
In Spoiler you have some real-life PSA, since this thread seem to operate on false assumption that may have real life repercussions
[spoiler]Abuse in relationship doesn't look like Family Guy episode- it comes in shades and circles that confuse victims and witnesses. Somebody can be abusive in one way and seemingly perfect in another (eg. parent who never physically hit the kid and cheers for every success, but use verbal violence in case of failure, spouse who withhold money unless everyone obeys.). It's also not constant- classical circle involves abuser being sorry after episode and begging for another chance or "triggered" by something and gaslighting victims. And children do love abusive parents, do everything to cover their bad situation. The misconception that you can spot the abuser from the distance actually kills people so I allowed myself to write it here.[/spoiler]
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
Dragon Ball characters have a different morality then us real world people, especially us in the west. What's acceptable to them would never fly in other stories, not just Goku's debatable quality as a dad or husband, quite a few others. For example, plop Vegeta any place else except maybe Naruto and he'd never ever in a million billion years be trusted or liked or could redeem himself for basically murdering billions of people for his own sick enjoyment. Neither would Majin Boo. I can certainly name more then a couple dozen series where the protagonists letting the bad guys get stronger just to make things more interesting would fucking floor people but in the DBverse, that's accepted.
There's also the fact a lot of us are from the west where there are big cultural differences with regards to stuff like redemption or what's acceptable for parenthood or spouses that are also factors to consider.
There's also the fact a lot of us are from the west where there are big cultural differences with regards to stuff like redemption or what's acceptable for parenthood or spouses that are also factors to consider.
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Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
To gauge Goku as a husband and family man you need to check the other characters opinion of him. Chi-chi's only qualm is him providing for the family, which he tries to do, otherwise Goku the farmer wouldn't exist. She's not crying herself to sleep about how her husband is a bum, she knows who he his and is fine with it.
The only beyond the line thing I think he did was staying dead to fight strong people. I bet if consulted Chi-chi she would disagree, Gohan certainly wasn't trilled.
[spoiler]In the recent chapter of the manga Goku dedication to his family is what's given attention to in regards to his character. He's working in the fields to provide for his family, long enough to have become rusty. Which is why the joke isn't a diss towards Goku, it's to make contrast between Goku and Vegeta, the later clearly has a different World view, even if he shares the Saiyan lust for battle.
It doesn't make Vegeta better or worse than Goku, it makes him different. That's what the story tells us, people shouldn't project their morality onto the characters.[/spoiler]
The only beyond the line thing I think he did was staying dead to fight strong people. I bet if consulted Chi-chi she would disagree, Gohan certainly wasn't trilled.
[spoiler]In the recent chapter of the manga Goku dedication to his family is what's given attention to in regards to his character. He's working in the fields to provide for his family, long enough to have become rusty. Which is why the joke isn't a diss towards Goku, it's to make contrast between Goku and Vegeta, the later clearly has a different World view, even if he shares the Saiyan lust for battle.
It doesn't make Vegeta better or worse than Goku, it makes him different. That's what the story tells us, people shouldn't project their morality onto the characters.[/spoiler]
Re: If Goku is such an inadequate spouse, then why...
When was it said?Michsi wrote:The TFS memes about Piccolo being Gohan's dad and such probably don't help, either.Dbzfan94 wrote:Because the fandom has been blinded by memes and casual fans think TFS is canon
Didn't Toriyama and his former editor sorta-kinda add fuel to that fire themselves? About how Goku regards his family and then the editor mention something about Piccolo being like a surrogate father. I doubt those two know anything about TFS. This whole debate/joke has been around for far longer than TFS.
Anyway tfs may not create the goku dad thing but they are responsible for adding more fuel to it