Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by Desassina » Tue May 23, 2017 5:43 pm

Say, the first time we learn about Cell, only Trunks had departed to the past to kill Freeza and King Cold, so the future turned bleak even with his presence. I guess that Cell has only become a thing in the past when Trunks got killed by him in the future, so the latter should be one who developed from Goku getting the medicine, when Trunks had already showed up. What he arrived at in his second trip was actually changed by Cell, as an effect of his first trip, before the other Trunks got killed.

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue May 23, 2017 10:39 pm

Wasn't it to give Cell time to develop through his larval form? Didn't he have to burrow underground for a few years before he could emerge in his Imperfect stage?

Or am I misremembering the sequence of events here?
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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by Cipher » Wed May 24, 2017 12:03 am

Logic would dictate that it's because he knows he has a four-year maturation period and wants to be able to absorb the androids nearly as soon as they're activated.

What the story actually gives us is that the time machine was already set for that date, which makes little sense in terms of Trunks' actions and makes Cell's maturation period taking exactly four years an absurd coincidence. I tend to brush the given explanation aside in favor of the former.

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by LuckyCat » Wed May 24, 2017 12:18 am

The time machine is prone to flaws which is addressed in dialogue. Remember Future Trunks wanted to come back and help the Z fighters against the androids in the prime timeline? He came back at the wrong time and the Z fighters blindly fought the wrong androids. Krillin mentions this flaw again later when Trunks suggests going back in time and destroying Gero's lab.

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by Basaku » Thu May 25, 2017 9:25 pm

ahill1 wrote:Yeah, the stupid thing is not just Cell arriving before Mecha Freeza's arrival, but also arriving in the main timeline. The Trunks from Cell's timeline wanted to tell the Z warriors he destroyed the androids, and those Z warriors definitely weren't the ones from the main timeline. If Cell hadn't killed Trunks, then the Trunks from Cell's TL would arrive in the main timeline and we'd have a meeting of two future Trunks lol.
It's clunky but yes, it actually follows its own logic. Travelling further back in time once again splits the timeline, hence why we have 2 time machines in the '2nd' main present timeline. The original main present timeline is left untouched with 1 time machine

Though alternatively one could argue Cell's timetravel should erase all post-arrival events and thus Future Trunks shouldn't even arrive year later in that new Cell present main timeline and instead only go to his originally created main timeline. But that means he's well, perma dead and the plot and emotions can't allow that :P

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by nickzambuto » Thu May 25, 2017 10:39 pm

If not for that line about Trunks already setting the date and Cell just hopping in, there would be no problem. Cell knew how long it would take for him to evolve out of his egg stage so he set the time machine to arrive that many years before the androids were completed, that way they would be out just in time for him to absorb them.

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by dragon boss z » Fri May 26, 2017 1:18 am

ahill1 wrote:Future Cell stole future Trunks' time machine and went to the past with it. Why did he end up in the main timeline before Mecha Freeza arriving? That doesn't make sense, considering future Trunks wanted to advise them he succeeded in defeating the androids, just like the future Trunks we know of did.
If Cell arrived at a time before Trunks showed up, that would just mean that he is in both timelines.

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Fri May 26, 2017 1:21 am

dragon boss z wrote:
ahill1 wrote:Future Cell stole future Trunks' time machine and went to the past with it. Why did he end up in the main timeline before Mecha Freeza arriving? That doesn't make sense, considering future Trunks wanted to advise them he succeeded in defeating the androids, just like the future Trunks we know of did.
If Cell arrived at a time before Trunks showed up, that would just mean that he is in both timelines.
Only if he was originally there, and the timeline split after that point, which isn't what happened. Cell went back and caused his own split in the timeline, so he's only present in the present in one version of events.
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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by dragon boss z » Fri May 26, 2017 2:55 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
dragon boss z wrote:
ahill1 wrote:Future Cell stole future Trunks' time machine and went to the past with it. Why did he end up in the main timeline before Mecha Freeza arriving? That doesn't make sense, considering future Trunks wanted to advise them he succeeded in defeating the androids, just like the future Trunks we know of did.
If Cell arrived at a time before Trunks showed up, that would just mean that he is in both timelines.
Only if he was originally there, and the timeline split after that point, which isn't what happened. Cell went back and caused his own split in the timeline, so he's only present in the present in one version of events.
but if he arrived in that timeline and caused a split, then trunks came back in time he may of also went to the split timeline causing two more. So you will an un altered time line, then two with Cell. Or maybe Trunks will go back and split the one without Cell and the one with Cell, causing 4 new timelines...so confusing, lol.

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by TobyS » Sat May 27, 2017 3:18 am

Yeah I think we have to go with:

1. “Cell knew he needed four years so he set it to that”

Action required for 1: Headcanon retcon, Toriyama made a mistake ignore that line of Cells dialogue.

2.“Trunks was in the middle of hitting an “Add” button/twisting a dial to scroll through the years and got interrupted by Cell before he was finished/sensed Cell and stopped holding the add button, Cell assumed that Trunks had finished anyway and must have intended that year after all for some reason.
3.“The time machine got hit and jogged slightly/malfunctioned possibly during a fight with Cell and Trunks”

Action required for 2/3: Cell made a mistake he's not lying, he's just wrong. Cell wouldn't want to wait too long to jump Trunks in case he suddenly disappears, but he doesn't know if he needs Trunks expertise or not to set the machine so logically there was guesswork involved.

----------

So we know Bulma suspected it was a possibility that Trunks wouldn't be able to alter their future, but still wanted to go ahead in that case because “There deserves to be a peaceful future” so you could argue Trunks wanted to create multiple peaceful futures. However this doesn't make sense because “Our” Future Trunks doesn't want to do this and shouldn't differ from Cells Trunks in that basic pre decided mission statement.

Normally I'd bend over backwards to make an authors line work, but I think this is a rare case when it actually makes more sense for the continuity and logic of the canon to not do that and use one of my 3 excuses above...
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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by Black Hawk » Sat May 27, 2017 4:41 am

Cetra wrote:It is always possible that this Trunks wanted to create a timeline where he did not even need to tell them they need to prepare about the Cyborgs but a) tell about his victory) and b) immediately inform them how to defeat the Cyborgs.

This is just a fan answer. It has nothing to do with official word. But yes, I have thought about this for years. Also the answer is pretty much silly because the timeline where he got the blueprints should be a timeline already where they know how to defeat them. Because of the blueprints. So the only thing left would be the report of the defeat. And for that it is the wrong timeline. But maybe for the blueprints there were some losses. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. This is the speculation spiral where it is no longer of any use to think about it. Speculations over speculations but no actual answers, even if they seem plausible.
I've thought about this as well. I personally believe that, as Trunks had two goals: purging his own world of artificial humans and creating a world that wasn't destroyed by them, he failed. I believe that, even if there had been losses (but there were also survivors), Trunks, given his benevolent and hopeful nature, wouldn't have given up on that world and moved on; giving up and moving on and trying again would have taken losing everyone. I think that he was indeed able to get the blueprints and deactivate the artificial humans, but that it took the sacrifice of quite literally everyone else, so, after deactivating the artificial humans in his own world, he was about to again set out to try creating a world not plagued by them to start with, requiring that he change the setting on the time machine (otherwise he'd have gone to the same world again), only to be killed by Cell.
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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by Desassina » Sat May 27, 2017 11:41 am

Interesting thoughts:
Why must the post apocalyptic setting happen before the past with Trunks and Boo when the former is actually the future? Trunks went to a time without interference from the mainline that he helped change, because no one will depart from that point on (Beerus destroyed the time machine, baby Cell had already been destroyed). In other words: Trunks didn't show up in the past from the perspective of the mainline's future, but since he departed from it, the destination was a future without the mainline's interference.
So the problem was thinking that the post apocalyptic future came first, when the past is actually before it, and that allows us to think that it's by going forward that you arrive at another timeline.

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by Desassina » Sat May 27, 2017 5:52 pm

Here's a revised scheme to get you talking ;)

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by TheUltimateVegito » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:36 pm

TheGodfather93 wrote: Nah, it's probably because plot. A whole lot of plot contrivances in that arc, like the fact that Kami knew of Cell's arrival for four years, but waited until he actually started absorbing people to act on it.
Kami had a vague premonition about Cell, he didn't know exactly what he is or how powerful he is.

As for the OP's question. The Trunks from Cell's timeline must've found Dr. Gero's laboratory and wanted to go back to the past to deactivate the androids and kill Dr. Gero himself without going through the trouble of telling the Z-Fighters (Who would fight the Androids instead of destroying them beforehand).
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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by Cipher » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:44 pm

Logic would stand to reason that it's because Cell's maturation period is more or less for years, so he'd want to intentionally arrive in time to reach full size again and absorb the androids shortly after their activation.

The given reason is that the time machine was already set for that date, which requires some enormous leaps be made in terms of Trunks' motivations and renders the length of Cell's maturation period an amazing coincidence without which his whole plan is at risk.

Personally, I just chalk this one up to the pitfalls of serialization and head-canon in the first explanation.

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by TheUltimateVegito » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:50 pm

Cipher wrote:Logic would dictate that it's because he knows he has a four-year maturation period and wants to be able to absorb the androids nearly as soon as they're activated.

What the story actually gives us is that the time machine was already set for that date, which makes little sense in terms of Trunks' actions and makes Cell's maturation period taking exactly four years an absurd coincidence. I tend to brush the given explanation aside in favor of the former.
I don't think Cell's maturation took exactly 4 years. Cell also must've waited for the right time to come out of his shell.
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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by LuckyCat » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:00 pm

TheUltimateVegito wrote:I don't think Cell's maturation took exactly 4 years. Cell also must've waited for the right time to come out of his shell.
I suppose it's possible he matured earlier than four years then preyed on animals and other lower lifeforms until he was ready to consume humans. I can't imagine him just waiting in his shell after maturation, though. Cell needed to be out eating humans getting his strength up before the Androids were destroyed.

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by TheUltimateVegito » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:14 pm

LuckyCat wrote:
TheUltimateVegito wrote:I don't think Cell's maturation took exactly 4 years. Cell also must've waited for the right time to come out of his shell.
I suppose it's possible he matured earlier than four years then preyed on animals and other lower lifeforms until he was ready to consume humans. I can't imagine him just waiting in his shell after maturation, though. Cell needed to be out eating humans getting his strength up before the Androids were destroyed.
The Androids were proven to be stronger than the Z-Fighters so Cell wouldn't have to worry about them getting destroyed.
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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by Cipher » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:36 pm

TheUltimateVegito wrote:The Androids were proven to be stronger than the Z-Fighters so Cell wouldn't have to worry about them getting destroyed.
The exoskeleton Gohan and Trunks find is still wet; it's recently been emerged from by the time they get to the second time machine. Cell had just finished his development. I suppose it could have been voluntary, but it seems odd.

The androids also would have been killed by Piccolo or Vegeta within the week in the main timeline. Cell also knew that Trunks had found a way to beat them during his previous time travel. He doesn't have room to play fast and loose with when he emerges.

Cell intentionally setting the time machine for a date four years before the androids' arrival to match his four-year maturation makes so much more sense than anything else that I can't believe it isn't something Toriyama thought of at the time.

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Re: Why did future Cell arrive a year before Mecha Freeza's arrival?

Post by LuckyCat » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:20 pm

Cipher wrote:Cell intentionally setting the time machine for a date four years before the androids' arrival to match his four-year maturation makes so much more sense than anything else that I can't believe it isn't something Toriyama thought of at the time.
I agree that definitely makes more sense. My guess is that Toriyama was trying to play up Cell's ability to manipulate a situation in his favor. Cell simply riding the time machine that Trunks already programmed makes Cell's presence seem more like Trunks' fault. Ultimately, Cell is the price the heroes pay for tampering with time.

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