Ramblings: from how Androids beat Frieza, to how Frieza became a God, explained

[SaiyanJack]

I believe I have come up with a completely coherent picture of what the Dragon Ball Universe actually looks like and have explained everything from how Dr. Gero was able to build Androids more powerful than Frieza the unrivaled Ruler of all the Universe, to how this same Frieza later became a God-like entity. I have attempted to bring reason to the by-nature unreasonable.

Sixteen (16) Pages of Dragon Ball Ramblings based on the Original Dragon Ball Anime, the Dragon Ball Z Anime, Dragon Ball Z Kai, the Dragon Ball Z Movies, Dragon Ball Super Movies, and some of Dragon Ball Super and GT. Most of Super and GT, the Manga, the GT movie, any live action movies, etc. has not been considered. I have scoured the net for word from Akira Toriyama where applicable and have stuck to canon as much as I felt possible while sacrificing for what I would have considered more believable. The main focus, although by far not the only, has been on the Android Saga moving into the Cell Saga, [A Very Unique Take on the Androids and Super Saiyan Grade 1], with a lot of focus on previous Sagas as well, especially concerning Frieza and the Saiyans. I have recently added a lot of content revolving around the later movies, the Buu sagas, and the Super Movies, including an explanation of how Frieza was able to attain his god like PL. Some of this is canon, some is a rewrite, some is added content, etc. it should be clear what is what and should be easy enough to skim through for parts you might find more interesting. If you respond I will try to reply. I hope you enjoy, and if you are not up for anything serious I recommend reading the Add to Fight Scenes bits as I think there are some cool scenes there.

Add to Story Scenes: Goku jumped off snake way on his way back to Earth as to take the shortcut through hell into King Yamas Dresser Drawer.

Add to Fight Scenes: Tien goes four arms After using multiform in the 23rd tournament fight with Goku in Dragon Ball, it’s like something out of a horror movie

Add to Fight Scenes: Yamcha is not killed by the Saibaman self-destructing but he is seriously wounded. Before anyone can help him, Nappa disposes of him the same way Vegeta disposed of the first failed Saibaman, thinking he is taking Vegetas lead, and (later) Nappa. This incites Krillins 5-bomb rage attack and Vegetas’ scorn.

Add to Fight Scenes: one of Captain Ginyus men in a fight with Piccolo, Vegeta, or Goku begins losing power and uses an Arm Blaster as a last ditch attack. Arm Blasters in general are shown to be much more powerful. One of Coolers men should have one too.

Explaining the power rise on Namek through Kaio Ken and the Zenkai: … After Goku gets his body back from Captain Ginyu, he spends some time in the medical chamber, in canon he spends ~10 episodes there after a relatively mild beating from Vegeta due to the lowered power level of Gokus body with Ginyu within. Goku arrives on Namek at 90k PL, he Kaiox2 for 180k against Ginyu who steals his body (upon returning to his old body Ginyu eats a Senzu Bean explaining they are given to Freeza's super elite for frontline emergencies), in rewrite Goku takes a Senzu Bean and Kaiox10 for 2mil against a third form Frieza, he gets a Zenkai to awaken at ~2mil, now to fight at Kaiox20 for ~40mil (20x greater than Final form Frieza at 1% power). The Saiyan Power Zenkai in all battles is rewritten such that whenever a Saiyan fights a more powerful foe and recovers they grow to a greater power than the inflicted damage, Krillin hurting Vegeta to be healed to a greater strength by Dende would not activate the Zenkai, Vegeta would grow in strength only to an equivalent of ‘training’ and not to the equivalent of ‘Zenkai’, it is rewritten such that second form Frieza inflicts the Zenkai damage on Vegeta which is healed by Dende. With these changes there is no need for the old-model healing chambers, instead they are shown to be very efficient. When Goku achieves Super Saiyan form he shoots up to ~150-160mil PL and stomps Frieza. When Goku does this he is under Kaiox20 which would make his base, that is Super Saiyan 1, ~8mil PL. So, Super Saiyan actually shot up Gokus PL from whatever it was after his Captain Ginyu Zenkai in canon (~3mil) up to 8mil, the rewrite is no different.

More on Power Levels: in the Galactic Frieza Army soldiers are grouped as common soldiers, elites, and super elites. Vegeta at 18k PL believed himself to be the strongest of Freeza's Elites, Dodoria and (pretty, not ugly) Zarbon have PLs of ~24k in canon and talk about how weak Vegeta is. However, Vegeta can transform into a Great Ape at will using his Blutz-wave technique, his PL could reach then 180k. The elites must compare themselves to this when they call him weak and should so be rewritten to be on par with the Ginyu forces ~150-200k PL. If a random individual of a random species, like say Garlic Jr of the Makyans or Lord Slug of the Namekians, could reach a PL of 1.5mil, then these PLs should be common among the Super Elites of Freeza's Forces, I.E. among the Ginyu Forces, who are known to be of such a power that Vegeta does not even compare himself to when he says he is the strongest of the elites, even while he has a Great Ape form of 180k PL. The Ginyu force is rewritten to be on the power level of Lord Slug, Garlic Jr., etc. ~1-8mil PL.

With Freeza's above 260mil max 144mil vs Goku 2.6mil (1%) vs Trunks (Gohan says Frieza is supressing his power the whole time), Gokus’ 150mil max, Trunks’ at ~8mil minimum. Vegeta never fought Frieza with any kind of effectiveness (due to not obtaining Super Saiyan form in time), nor has he so much as sparred with Goku since his battle with Frieza, after obtaining Super Saiyan form he fights 19 and obliterates him but loses much of his power in the process, Goku lost to 19 but only because of his Heart condition which reduced his 150mil PL to an unknown but effectively 0 (zero) PL. Piccolo who now may be as high as ~8mil PL was too much for 20 to handle, who said he was greater in power than 19, so Vegeta is Possibly confirmed above 8mil PL. 17 and 18 show they are too much for Vegeta, Trunks, or Piccolo, with their Limitless Stamina they need only a slightly higher PL in order to completely stomp oppositionso 17 and 18 have Possibly confirmed PLs of ~9mil or greater.

Important Line-Cube Power Level Rule and Caveats: 8k PL vs 9k PL will be a close battle, 8k vs 9k with Limitless Stamina will be a stomp, 230mil PL vs 3-at-once 160mil PL = close battle, 170mil PL Limitless Stamina vs 160mil x100 1-at-a-time = stomp. This is the line-cube rule: a PL of 5 = a ‘force’ of 5^3=5x5x5=125, a PL of 6 = 6^3=6x6x6=216, thus a PL of 125 is capable of fighting of 2x PL of 100 at one time, anyone capable of fighting 4x Super Saiyans/Nameks (at ~160mil each) at once I placed at 260mil PL or above, equal to 100% cyborg Frieza, Bojack was clearly easily defeated once Gohan entered SS2 (300-330mil PL)

[Cooler, Super Android 13, Bojack, Broly (2nd), Frieza, Dabura, Cell, Hatchiyack, and Broly (1st) (weakest to strongest based on on-screen battles, in spite of contrary dialogue, even considering chronology and PL of Z-Fighters) all have about the same PL, Metacooler is far beyond their PL.] Technique vs PL: likely the only real difference among this group is in technique with Cell having nearly everyone’ techniques making him very powerful. as a kid I remembered watching Frieza on Namek floating around in his hover car and I assumed he was meditating and gaining power for his coming fight with Goku (now I realize he had no clue Goku existed and didn’t consider him a threat at all but I was a kid, lol) and I watched the dichotomy with Goku training so hard to grow in strength, even at the expense of conserving energy for his coming fight (this was the thought process I had), I think it was supposed to be clear that Freeza's’ power came naturally and he spent most of his time sitting around in first form, this was reaffirmed with Super, but I won’t touch that. On another Power Scale, Krillin and Tien are the strongest of the four (Chioatsu, Yamcha), in my view Tien is able to deal greater brute damage through consecutive Spirit Tri Beams than Krillins consecutive Destructo Disks or Split-Bombs, Tien can likely block or deflect more powerful Ki blasts than Krillin, these make his PL greater, however, Krillin is the greater fighter, turning his Ki into a razor weapon, better able to dodge and hide with his small size, if this translates to PL then Krillin is far greater.

Pikkon being able to easily defeat Frieza, Cold, and Cell (combined 380mil PL) must have had a PL of ~380-415mil (In canon Pikkon has 1.2x PL of Cell, putting him at ~396mil here), Cell may have fought on Olibus level with prep (Olibu may be 330+mil PL), Goku may have been ~300-330mil PL when he died and may have received a Zenkai to 330+mil PL, still requiring ‘Super Kaio Ken’ to defeat Pikkon. If ‘Super Kaio Ken’ uses the line-cube rule to reach ~415mil PL, instead of ~660mil like normal Kaio Ken, then they would be near each other’s PL, as in canon. Pikkon as a mortal likely rivaled SS2, in death he was able to exceed this, just as Goku was able to attain SS3 after death, and just as SS3 cannot be sustained in normal space Pikkons PL would reduce back to SS2 in normal space. Fusion allows this SS3 PL to be achieved in normal space only if two beings of SS2 PL use the technique, but just as SS3 has limited time in normal space, so too does Fusion. Super Kaio Ken, like SS3, could only be maintained in the afterlife worlds, and would be severely limited in real space.

More on PL Cont.: Trunks’ sword was imbued with a Ki Destructo Disc when he attacked Frieza who was unprepared and at 1% power at ~2.6mil PL (being at 1% Final Form in anticipation of the Super Saiyan Goku, but not at 100% as he was not currently in active battle nor properly prepared for the attack, Gohan says Frieza is suppressing his power) he effectively assassinated Frieza by having future knowledge of him. The rewrite could establish this by having Trunks strain in battle vs Freeza's Super Elite forces (the Makyan, King Cold, especially the robot, etc. perhaps they are dispatched and taken out in hard battle by the other z fighters while Trunks waits to assassinate Frieza, and then struggles against Cold). Goku being at 150mil PL in Super Saiyan form is only able to defeat 50% Final form Frieza 120mil PL (or 100% Full Power Final form Frieza (240mil PL) after a Universal Spirit Bomb reduces his overall PL by 40%, to 144mil for a close battle), by Android Saga he is able to hold Super Saiyan form naturally with a PL of ~150mil. The Androids fighting on par with Trunks in his own universe puts them at only ~8mil with Limitless Stamina, even being stronger in this universe only ~9mil PL.

Cell is made from Freeza's Nucleus and absorbs 17 and 18s power (11+mil combined plus his approximately 16-level PL (~10mil) after absorbing cities = ~13.3mil, Perfect Cells full power was undoubtedly at least as great as Freeza's 260mil PL, Super Saiyan 2 is actually on par with Freeza's 100%, Cell, Dabura, etc). Kamiccolos full power then may not exceed ~14mil. Goku says he is not strong enough to fight Cell who at this time is only as strong as 16, who is now only confirmed to be ~11mil, however, Goku has just awoken from his Heart condition and he has not shown himself capable, even slightly, of transforming into a Super Saiyan since he has awoken. It is only after he enter the time chamber that he transforms, this likely explains why he wanted to train with Gohan, so that he could build up his own strength. It is also likely that after all of his nightmares in his coma he wanted to spend time with his family, especially his son. This is the big lie, that the androids were so powerful when in actuality if Goku could even go SS1 he would have stomped them, and Vegeta and Trunks after training in the Time Chamber could have done the same despite reaching only 62% of Freeza's full power.

However unlikely, would the rest of the entire Android and Cell Sagas make sense if Frieza was at 1% PL when Trunks assassinated him, if Trunks maxed out around 3% of Freeza's Full Power, and if the androids maxed around 5%? Yes or no? The Kaio Ken and Spirit Bomb are so powerful because they are God techniques, only learned once Goku Dies and returns back to life. For another example of what resurrection can afford someone in power in DB; Tien, Chiaotsu, Krillin, and Yamcha would easily be beaten by Nappa at 4k PL, after death and resurrection they can easily defeat the Ginyu Force at ~200k PL (Krillin and Tien are max 800k on many scales at the end of everything). They, however, did not learn any god techniques. [Or all of SS3, only achievable in the afterlife worlds outside normal space] The androids being so weak also explains how 18 was struggling against Goten and Trunks as Mighty Mask in the Tournament when, despite being Super Saiyans, they had not trained as Vegeta, Trunks, or Gohan (in future Trunks timeline, where he is said to be Trunks’ teacher), who were no match for 18 even as Super Saiyans. It makes sense if the three were at ~8mil PL while Goten and Trunks were able to jump to ~10mil PL pretty quickly as kids, it makes less sense if Goten and Trunks somehow jumped to 100-400+mil PL each, enough with the Mighty Mask outfit handicapping them to still overpower 18, or at least cause her to struggle.

To be clear, while training for Cell Vegeta is able to better catch up with Goku, as is Trunks, Gohan is able to reach Super Saiyan 2 which I would place at least on par with Freeza's Full Power 100% 260mil, likely up to ~300mil, Super Perfect Cell therefore reached slightly above this level, requiring Tien and others to aid in the final Super Kamehameha Wave by attacking Cell on the sideline. After Cell it is said that Gohan loses this power yet he is able to keep up with Dabura who is stated to be as strong as Cell, therefore only slightly stronger than Frieza if at all, likely he retained his power as he was only a kid and now as an adult despite the lack of training he would be able to keep up with his kid self. Vegeta and Goku trained to be on the Super Saiyan 2 level, Vegeta finally surpassing Freeza's PL only after Cell is defeated. They likely would have trained until they would be able to defeat Cell and Frieza with only a relatively minor struggle ~310-330mil PL by Buu Saga, minimum. SS1 Grade 1 is 8mil PL, used against Frieza by Goku with Kaiox20 for 150mil PL, which is on par with SS1 Grade 2. Grade 2 is achieved by Vegeta and Trunks only after entering the time chamber, Grade 3 is Trunks’ trading speed for power, Grade 4 is Goku and Gohan in a relaxed SS1 state, here they are likely at ~200-260mil PL. SS1 represents a Saiyan moving from a hospitable world to their natural environment, SS2 represents a trained and powerful adult Saiyan on their Sun-Planet, the full power of the Great Ape, this is also the power of a trained adult Frost Demon (Frieza obtained this status naturally), while SS3 is an unnatural overcharging of a Full Power SS2 achievable only through the afterlife [~3x max SS2] (~475mil) PL.

This may explain the low power levels going back to original Dragon Ball. Master Roshi had a Power Level of 139 but he is an old man, I would assume that he peaked when he was more into training to learn the Kamehameha Wave, get the Spirit Water, etc., and helped Master Mutaito contain King Piccolo, his power level may have been as great as 1k back then, being the Worlds’ Strongest and all. King Piccolo had conquered the world but it took him longer than it would have taken Raditz, perhaps without Frieza as motivation or out of choice to pace and enjoy his conquering, I’d place Mutaito near Roshis maximum at his peak, a combined 1100 PL was no match for King Piccolo, I’d say he peaked near 1300 PL. Piccolo Jr. was said to be stronger but didn’t seem much, 1400 PL, making Goku close to 1400 PL and receiving a Zenkai. It’s likely then that between DB and DBZ they were simply unable to maintain these power levels and they dropped from being their ‘sustained’ to being their ‘maximum’, piccolos dropped to max at 1400 PL, Goku must have been near there, yet their sustained PLs were fractions of this making them no match for the trained soldier Raditz. Prior, nobody had had a Great Namekians’ magic to unlock their potential, nor had they died and been resurrected to have their potential unlocked that way. Had Kami learned of his heritage and had a proper teacher he could have unlocked Master Roshis potential, likely 50k-100k PL (800k max), to defeat King Piccolo, or had Master Roshi simply died and trained with King Kai to achieve nearly the same to be resurrected as directed by Kami perhaps to a group like Bulmas’ and Gokus’. Mutaito may not have been able to be wished back due to the circumstances of his death. The Darkness and other entities from Dragon Ball may have Power Levels of ‘elites’ 10k-200k or even ‘super elites’ ~1-8mil. This may contradict Daburas claim that no entity on earth was above 300 Kili when the Demons did their survey 300 years ago, however.

Episode of Bardock: Bardock is often listed at 10k PL, 100k in Great Ape form, however he is somehow able to withstand Freeza's planet-destroying attack and is sent into the past, Freeza's attack even in first form must have given him a Zenkai to over 1mil PL maybe as high as ~3mil. At his original PL there is no reason for him to survive, but that he does means he has become much more powerful. Chilled is able to smack him around at this level with ease, however he is no match for him once he becomes a Super Saiyan, an SS1 as discussed, without Kaio Ken, places him at ~8mil PL. Chilled was therefore likely between ~4-7mil PL.

Buu and Fusion, the Afterlife and Real Space: fusion is a magical ability attainable through the afterlife, once learned it can be taught to mortals in real space. SS3 (415mil) is also attainable only through the afterlife, however, it is also attainable through fusion of two beings capable of SS2 PLs (~330mil, fused to ~415mil). Majin Buu PL is on par with an SS3, somehow, even in real space, by himself. When Bad Buu eats Good Buu his PL is said to grow but this is likely due only to increased focus, having resolved his internal conflict. Goten and Trunks by themselves may have been capable of SS2 but are only able to go SS3 while fused, I believe this is just to show that their fuzed PL is on par with an SS3 (~415mil), as predicted. When Buu ‘fuses’ with Gotenks his PL effectively becomes that of two fused SS3 entities, or an unattainable “SS4” (~<520mil PL), but this is only capable of being sustained for ~30mins in real space. When the power runs out and he fuses again with Gohan his PL effectively reaches the same (~<520mil) without the half-hour limitation. Goku being capable of SS3+ (~>415) and Vegita capable of SS2-3 (~<415), would fuse to a combined PL (~>520mil) as Vegito. Throughout Buus battles he is actually constantly outmatched and outnumbered but he is effectively invincible regenerating from even burnt smoke, and with unlimited stamina, and through his magical abilties, and later through his fusions, he keeps up with his enemies. Buu is outmatched against Vegito due to his fusion being imperfect, the result of ‘kidnapping’, vs Goku and Vegitas perfect potara fusion. Fusion obviously allows, too, for some amount of magical ability, as in Gotenks ghosts and other unusual abilities. This explains Vegitos ability to fight as candy and after absorption by Buu, since both of those were magical attacks. Gotenks likely could have resisted from within Buu until his fusion wore off, but they were likely overwhelmed. Kid Buu, despite being stated to be in his strongest state, is actually on SS3 level (~415mil PL).

Gero: It has always bothered me that Dr. Gero, a human scientist on an isolated planet, would be able to create androids more powerful than the ruler of the universe, despite millions of other planets and species advanced enough for space travel attempting to stop him all failing, and this is not even his goal, his goal is not to overpower the strongest being in all of the universe, and yet that is what he does. I have recently rewatched DBZ with this in mind and it surprised me to learn that it is possible that the androids were not even a fraction of the strength we are lead to believe they are. It is very cleverly written as to trick us, but the only real comparison we have between Frieza and the Androids strength is through Trunks, and IF Frieza was at 1% power when trunks assassinated him THEN the rest of the arc makes perfect sense with first grade Super Saiyans and Piccolo never reaching above 4% PL (excepting Goku with his Kaio Ken who made it to 62%) and the androids never reaching above 5%. The only other contradiction is after Goku wakes up from his coma and says he is not strong enough to fight Cell who is as strong as 16, BUT Goku is never even shown to be able to enter Super Saiyan state AT ALL until after he enters the Time Chamber anyway so it may be that he was severely weakened. I believe all of this was written in on purpose, Frieza was defeated in a kind of a fluke while the Adroid/Cell Sagas are all about how the Saiyans and possibly Piccolo actually obtain a power level on par with Frieza. Gohans SS2 and Super Perfect Cell were the only ones who may have been greater in power, 300-330mil PL vs Cyborg Frieza 100% 260mil PL.

To be clear, I believe Gero would calculate Goku to be ~33mil PL, not the 3mil I wrote in above, but the technology to reach this level would be impossible. Upon witnessing the ~8mil PL of Trunks during his battle with Frieza (non-canon as he supposedly didn’t know about SS1) he would believe this to be an acceptable level and try to supersede it. People compare Geros Androids to the Capsules, the Dragon Radar, the Shrink Bracelet, etc., and here is where they are faulty; you can compare the sensors in 16, his PL radar, etc. to the Dragon Radar, but that’s all, the others are advanced but non-comparable. The Comparable technology to the androids include; the Arm Blasters used by Freeza's Forces which are shown to be very weak, and General Taos Super Dodon Ray which is comparable to the Arm Blasters in power. The armed forces of the world are stomped by Cell, it would likely be no different for Android 16, 17 or 18, which is plenty Genius enough, surely the nations’ military is on par with the Red Ribbon Army and have their own scientists. The Androids could only have been of a ‘super elite’ PL, they could not have neared Freeza's PL because if the technology existed to reach that PL it would have been used to defeat Frieza long ago. The only reason Cell is believable is because he incorporates Frieza as apart of his own power, Cell could not have been used to defeat Frieza because in order to make Cell Frieza must already be dead. Basically, if the Androids are more powerful than Frieza, I need an explanation as to why no one else in the universe was able to use them against Frieza, during his families’ reign over the entire universe.

Super Elites: The Galactic Frieza Army makes up the majority of the Planet Trade Organizations Military but not all of it. Frieza does not make use of available robotic soldiers, despite their being on par with his Ginyu Force and other Super Elite task forces, because they cannot be betrayed when they complete their missions, nor can they be properly punished when they fail their missions, as living soldiers can. Frieza, being unable to sense Ki, would not even know of the stealth advantages offered by the technology. When Frieza and Cold come to earth, Cold brings a robot with him, Frieza brings another Ginyu-tier force which includes a Makyan (perhaps having collected a piece of the destroyed Makyon Star and compressed it into a small crystalline form on an amulet which grants the high PL and motivates him in his mission as he seeks revenge), among others. Coolers Armored Squadron is rewritten to include 2 more soldiers who are capable of keeping up with Piccolo, including one who uses a powerful Arm Blaster, and Salza is shown to be more powerful using his unique hand techniques against Piccolo. Abo and Kado were shown to keep up with Gotenks but only in Base form, for whatever reason he never goes SS3, and once Goku goes SS2 they are defeated in a single blast. They were not in fact anywhere near Freeza's PL, they may well have been above the Ginyu Force, even above the Androids and Kamiccolo, but not by much, max ~15mil PL each, and likely only ~10mil.

Androids: The energy absorption devices invented by Dr. Gero for 19 and 20 are equipped on all the androids, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18, the energy accumulated by one is shared amongst all of them. 19 never stood a chance against Vegeta but the energy he absorbed made the remaining androids stronger, as did the energy absorbed by 20, and when 17 and 18 killed 20 they absorbed all of his energy as well. They rely on their limitless stamina, drawing battles out and absorbing more power, using their lack of sensible Ki to hide and strike from cover and distance, tunneling underground, flying into outer space, and diving into the ocean (they try to kill using methods that would have no effect on Frieza). Gero would calculate based on pre-Namek data that Goku could reach a power as high as 3 million, he would witness Trunks’ battle with Frieza through his robot-insects and suspect the witnessed ~8mil PLs to be an acceptable maximum, he would build the Androids to ~9mil PL with 16 at ~10mil. Piccolo only forms Kamiccolo in response to Imperfect Cell and so prior his power level is ~8mil, Tien, Chioatsu, and Yamcha would have trained with the Ginyu force (to be 1-8mil PL, or train with Dodoria-tier instead) but would be no match. This leaves Goku with ~150mil power level in Super Saiyan form and Vegeta in Super Saiyan Form with an unestablished PL, as low as ~8mil, to effectively defeat them, which would be no problem if not for Gokus heart illness. Each android also has the Limitless Stamina technology but this only keeps them at their maximum ~9mil PL, the absorption tech can be used as an obviously counter to all ranged attacks, as an obvious melee attack, but they can also reuse the absorbed energy in addition to their own normal power, they can only hold it for short periods of time however. Android 13 is fully synthetic and there is no Super Android 13, the androids have perfect teamwork through the super computer.

Add to Fight Scenes: android grabs onto a powerful fighter with one hand, absorbing their life power, while using the other hand to release the energy as a Blast stream onto a second powerful fighter, perhaps Goku.

Add to Fight Scenes: in battle with 19 and 20 the z fighters are constantly dodging attacks that seem to come from nowhere, even spectators assume the androids must be using some kind of new technique or trick, only later is it revealed that 13, 14, 15, had been bombarding from a distance, hidden amongst mountains using their undetectable power.

Add to Fight Scenes: the androids attempt to kill the Z fighters in various ways which would have no effect on a being such as Frieza, drowning in water or even lava, dragging a fighter into an underground cavern full of poison gases, pulling them up out of the atmosphere to suffocate them, etc.

Add to Fight Scenes: the androids have spare replacement parts they can use to rebuild themselves if damaged but not fully destroyed.

Dr. Geros robotic insects collect samples from the Tree of Might for use in Cell. Dr. Gero reverse engineers the Tree of Mights energy absorption mechanism to develop the energy absorption devices for 19 and 20, in so doing he discovers a way to siphon ZPE instead of Ki and produces the limitless power devices. Cell uses the Tree of Might DNA to try to absorb the world with the intention of moving on to the rest of the universe.

How Frieza helped Gero: Frieza doesn’t have any regeneration capability but he can be torn to pieces in deep space and he is fine, he can survive any injury and condition so long as the nucleus in his head remains intact. Dr. Gero collected Freeza's bisected nucleus but was unable to duplicate it or heal it, due to the unique method of its creation, instead he was able to biologically reprogram and repurpose it for use in Cell.

Dr. Gero moved the entirety of the remains of future Trunks/Freeza's battle, the ship, back to his lab. Freeza's cybernetics were used in developing the androids allowing them to hold and withstand vast amounts of power once absorbed. He may have even found a surviving alien, the scientist responsible for putting Frieza back together, and worked alongside him. In the alternate universe future Trunks comes from Goku defeats Frieza on earth in a hard-won battle which leaves little for Gero to work with, as opposed to Trunks’ assassination which preserved much of the alien technology resulting in 17 and 18 becoming more powerful in the current timeline. Dr. Gero stopped watching Goku after he left for Namek because when Goku came back from Namek he brought Frieza with him and Gero turned his attention to the technology Frieza brought with him to develop the androids to a strength which could crush Goku.

Add to Fight Scenes: Krillins Destructo Disk (Cheater Disk), instead of doing nothing to Cells neck, cuts Cells head clean off, but then Cell catches and puts his head back on like it was nothing.

Add to Fight Scenes: Cell uses Tiens DNA to use his eyes like a chameleon and when he splits himself into multiform he uses Tiens DNA to grow four arms. Cell also stretches his limbs in fighting like a Namek. Cell Jrs also use these abilities.

Add to Fight Scenes: Cell uses Piccolos Great Namekian resizing, reshaping, and stretching powers especially in stretching rapid punches, kicks, grabs, etc, even around corners and dodging jumps and flight patterns. Perhaps even turning into a giant form as a Great Namek.

Add to Fight Scenes: Cell uses his Saiyan DNA to gain power from Blutz-waves and gain a Great Ape transformation.

Add to Story Scenes: Piccolo beat the shit out of Trunks and Goten whenever they talked back during the early Fusion scenes. Just like the good old days with Gohan.

Add to Story Scenes: Kibito was furious that Goku had trespassed on the Kais Planet.

Add to Story Scenes: it is revealed that just as the Nameks are split into the Dragon Clan and the Warriors, the Kais are so too split and the Kais as we know them are of the more peaceful variety. The Warrior Kais are of a SS3+ class being of an afterlife world outside normal space.

Bibidi, Babidi, Buu, and the Kais: Bibidi was a Demon Clan Kai born when Daikaio split himself into pure good and pure evil forms just as Kami had done to create King Piccolo. As discussed, real space realm beings max at SS2 as with the Frost Demons and the Saiyans, upon death such beings are able to reach SS3 PLs, same again for the Demons being capable of SS2 levels within Demon Realm but being able to attain SS3 within ‘other world’, the Clan Kais were the peaceful Kais as we know them, they are among the most powerful beings in all realms but they are average SS2 PLs by their nature, the Warrior Kais reached SS3 PLs by their nature, making them the most powerful beings in the universe when they trained. Bibidi was not of these great powers, being a cast off Demon Clan, just as Piccolo was reduced in power upon being cast off of Kami. But being a Kai he would retain his very powerful magical abilities, and give rise to the invincible Buu whose own PL could never exceed the SS3 limit (excluding the Super Buus; Gotenks Buu and Gohan Buu), but whose limitless magical abilities, regeneration, stamina, and Super Buu fusions made him effectively unstoppable.

Janemba and Hildegarn are demons of the Kais/Buus class, with Ki PLs of SS3 but heavily supplemented by powerful magical abilities, just as Buu could only be erased from existence through the god technique Spirit Bomb which used the maximum life force from the earth (and, in head canon, drew a normal amount of energy from the rest of the universe, as in the Universal Spirit Bomb), Hirudegarn only through the Sword, and Janemba only through the magical abilities granted in Fusion, not to mention Gogetas unattainable “SS4” PL. in all cases beings, especially those of SS3 or greater, are shown to have a connection between their confidence, or otherwise, and their power, trash talking in early episodes can be written off as only trash talk, but of SS3 PLs confidence, and damaging an opponent confidence, results in direct physical damage at worst, as in the case of Janemba, or a severe drop in effective PL as in the case of Buu when his confidence as a fighter is mocked, or in the case of Gohan whose PL is directly linked to his emotions. Its possible SS3 in general allows for some magical ability, as in fusion, if the dragon attack used by Goku against Hirudegarn is canon.

It is possible that the Kashvar are the Demon Clan Kais, that Bibidi and Babidi are members of their race. Tapion would be rewritten as a Kai, the magical instruments built by a Kai to operate on the same magic as Hirudegarn. They would have imbued the musical instruments to channel the users’ confidence building a protective barrier and a magical attack. The Kashvar and Bibidi could even be a species from another universe invading this one, as would make sense in Hois declaration that all other species are polluting his universe.

The Dragon and the Kais: It is also possible that the Kashvar are an equivalent of a highly paranoid, arrogant race of Namekians. Shenron was shown able to be destroyed by King Piccolo whose PL must not have been greater than ~1300, but it is possible he knew a technique to destroy the model being that he was connected with the creator of the Dragon Balls, Kami. Shenron has otherwise only shown fear to Beerus, if you even consider that canon. Shenron is the ‘Higher Self’ to the Namekian race, it has effectively lived reincarnated as every Namekian and is their god-selves’ connection to these past lives. As it naturally exists of a higher dimension alongside beings as powerful as Hirudegarn, Buu, and Janemba, the magical dragon attack used by SS3 Goku may have actually summoned Shenron to destroy it, Shenron is likely of their PL and with similar magical abilities, his weakness is not in the Sword/Spirit Bomb/Fusion Magic/Trash Talking/Confidence but in the Dragon Balls, the Statue, and the associated planet, his connection to this existence. The Namekians were able to use the Dragon Balls to focus their power and summon their higher selves in the same way the Kashvar were able to focus their power and summon their higher selves in Hirudegarn.

Universe/Real Space: Of the Dragon Ball Universe there are four galaxies, the North, West, South, and East, yet each is immeasurably larger than real-world galaxies containing nearly limitless worlds. To equate, the Dragon Ball Galaxies are closer in magnitude to real-world filaments which are superclusters of galaxies, each galaxy containing ~1trillion worlds. Each galaxy/filament has a Kai representing it, who is responsible for its wellbeing. Above these is the Grand Kai who oversees the four and all of their shared after life, ‘other world’. To care for their galaxies they must accommodate and protect life bearing worlds, each of the Kais are responsible for nearly limitless worlds, however, and so they rely heavily on Planetary Guardians. Beings of great magical ability and potential are guided by an unnatural force to seek out planets which are vacant of a Guardian. Many planets lack guardians due to circumstance but planets with long ages of active guardians inevitably grow to greater life. If in a galaxy there are 1trillion worlds, then likely 1million will have a Guardian. Many Namekians have been called to guardianship due to their potential, yet they are not the only race. A Namekian Guardian is unique in that of each world which supports a Namekian population, no matter how small, a set of Dragon Balls can be made. The Namekians higher self, the Dragon, takes on varied forms and names based on the world it is to be connected to.

Add to Fight Scenes: they should have summoned Shenron with the Dragon Balls, on manifesting the Dragon does not even offer to grant a wish but instead immediately does battle with Hirudegarn, they tear a dimensional hole and their battle continues outside the universe, Shenron returns and the Dragon Balls disperse.

Villains Plot (Based on Cell and Dabura): X1 turns out to be the baryonic manifestation of a dark matter entity who contacted Dr. X2 upon sensing in premonition Freeza's imminent demise. Frieza and family were appointed to rule over the Baryonic plane by Lord Beerus and Friends (Gods), Dabura and friends were appointed to rule over the Demon Realm by Lord Beerus and Gods, and, finally, X1 was appointed to rule over a dimension of dark matter by Lord Beerus and Gods. There are Four other planes ruled by equally powerful groups. Upon sensing Freeza's demise X1 plots to enter the Baryonic dimension to expand his territory and manipulates Dr. X2 into creating a portal opening (on Earth, so he can directly attack the ones responsible for Freeza's death) giving him the technology to work with and subconsciously inspiring his inventions.

Villains Plot (Based on Buu): X3 is the great destroyer appointed to Universe 7 by Lord Beerus and Gods, while Freeza's lineage has ruled over the Baryonic plane and X1 has ruled over a dimension of dark matter, and Dabura has ruled over the Demon Realm, as Kai explains there are Four other dimensions ruled by still other powerful entities, X3 is not the ruler of any, but the destroyer of all seven.

The Ancient Saiyans rise through the Super Nameks (unnamed alien race?) to the Super Saiyans and their fall back to normal Saiyans on the Tuffle World after destroying the Frost Demons habitat/reproduction: The Saiyans were a human species who were uplifted by another ancient race, to battle the Frost Demons. It was likely the Super Nameks who would bestow upon the Saiyan race all of their destructive powers but none of their magical abilities and talents. The Saiyans would be chosen among all the species for their Zenkai, the Nameks or other unnamed ancient race would build their power, having them fight and survive the harshest environments in the universe until they became native to a star-like world where they would be born Great Apes and Super Saiyans. These Super Saiyans would go on to do battle with the ancient Frost Demons. The Frost Demons being a powerful race which would spread out from a frozen galaxy-sized vortex environment, the frost demons would form in this environment naturally as super hard ice, when the naturally occurring ice structures thawed they produced the Frost Demons, once an ice structure formed, the longer it took to thaw the more powerful the Frost Demon would be. Most ice structures would be limited by the harsh environment, after a given time it would be unlikely the ice structure would not break apart in collision if it could not reach the outer rings of the galactic environment and thaw itself out. They would spread from this cluster into the universe and cause little more than destruction, the Super Nameks would pose the only threat to the frost demons but would be no match for the Frost Demons numbers, as the Frost Demons occurred naturally from their environment while the Nameks were never a prolific race. Cold would be father to Frieza in that he would artificially create his ice structure close to the center of their galactic environment, other Frost Demons could similarly be parents, the more powerful Frost Demons could make structures closer to the center and artificially sustain their growth resulting in generations of more and more powerful Frost Demons. The culmination of this work was Frieza, before the Nameks turned to the Saiyans to finally overrun the cluster and destroy it, resulting in the practical genocide of the Frost Demons, as no more ice structures could be formed, and leaving only Freeza's most powerful family bloodline alive but unable to reproduce. Freeza's ancestor in turn destroyed the star-like planet the Saiyans called home, where the Saiyans lived primarily in their great-ape states due to an abundance of Blutz-wave radiation, resulting in only a small group of turned-human-form Saiyans to repopulate a habitable world, the Nameks who were responsible for the Saiyans great power would leave them to inhabit a relatively calm world with a minimum of Blutz-wave radiations, a moon which would only produce them once in 8 years, and there they would through the generations become docile and lose much of their great power. The Tuffles, the humans of the world the Saiyans would inhabit, would be the entrusted caretakers, made to ensure the Saiyans never received the technology to reach space, nor to ever be granted permission off world, for in the harsh environments off of the docile planet the Saiyans would only grow in power, the Zenkai may then be revealed to the Saiyans who may abuse it. However, Saiyans fighting amongst themselves would one day learn of the Zenkai even without the technology of spaceflight or the ability to experience other harsh environments, these Saiyans would also feel oppressed by the Tuffles unwillingness to share in the most advanced of their technologies, despite being willing to otherwise work and live alongside them, this would result in the Tuffle-Saiyan wars.

The Saiyans are a human species with the Zenkai ability, at one point in time they were a spacefaring species and in experiencing harsh environments in space their Zenkai revealed itself, after so many generations they eventually evolved to live on a star-like world as giant apes with great power, however the great ape form would be lost when they went off planet due to being cut off from the planets power/radiation. Only in environments that had this radiation would they transform back. The star-like planet would be destroyed, perhaps by natural causes or otherwise. Perhaps by force or perhaps by choice they would revert themselves back to human form and reduce their powers by moving to the Tuffle home world, which would be chosen for its lack of blutz-wave radiation, the Tuffles would be told never to give them the technology to get off planet or else the Saiyans power would once again grow, they may be told this by the ones responsible for the Saiyans, or if the Saiyans do this of their own accord they may tell the Tuffles themselves never to give the technology to future generations. This edict would live on as a kind of myth, never let a Saiyan off planet, future generations would forget that it was their own races decision, if indeed that is the case, or disagree with the decision and feel oppressed, resulting in the Tuffle-Saiyan War. The Super Saiyan transformation is just a channeling of the Great Apes power, the Great Apes of the Star Planet were always in Super Saiyan form as Golden Great Apes, this level of power was the only strong enough to survive this environment. The Blutz wave can recreate the Great Ape form without channeling the full Super Saiyan power resulting in the common Great Ape form. The Star Planet would work because ‘no matter what angle you were looking at it at, it would be full’ and the thousands-times fluctuating gravity complete with moving wells, the solar-flare-level radiation bursts, and the super hurricane force currents. It would be no wonder then that once they readapted to worlds habitable by ‘normal’ ‘typical’ biology they would also be able to live and fight in any environment in between, as King Kai says this is the true secret to the power of the Saiyans.

Explaining Piccolos Power Boosts: Most Super Nameks are created in ways similar to but different from Piccolo, some may have split themselves into two and reformed after a period of purification for the evil half as piccolo did, or others may have found individuals to become partners and merge with thus becoming Super Nameks. A Namek that starts as two individuals and merges may then meditate and split again but the individuals will not be as they were, instead it will be as a good and evil split, and will result in a loss of the Super Namek power, they may then re-merge after the purification process, or not. A Namek that starts as one individual and splits, to merge again, cannot then split itself again, nor can it ever merge with another. A Super Namek that starts as two and merges cannot merge with another without first meditating and splitting into good and evil individuals. Only while a Namek is split into good and evil individuals can either side merge with another individual Namek and then return to merge with their original half after a process of purification, this is the only manner in which three Nameks may merge, it is theoretically possible for four Nameks to merge in this way if both good and evil halves merge prior to recombining, a theoretical circle of splitting and recombining of Nameks has been attempted by powerful Super Nameks before but has never resulted in anything stable or worthwhile.

Piccolos three-Namek Merging is uniquely powerful likely due to the two Nameks Nail and Kami subverting their wills to Piccolos full control. Most Super Nameks would be of Picollos power after merging with Nail, Piccolo after recombining with Kami would have a power unheard of among most Super Nameks. Piccolo on reaching Namek could have had Guru unlock his potential power level and he would likely have grown to 50k or greater, on fusing with Nail they would reach a combined 65k but as a Great Namek they may have a potential as high as Lord Slugs and Freeza's Super Elites ~1-8mil. Kamis power may not have been greater than 1-3k but with Guru or another Great Namek of his class releasing his full potential he would have been greater than Piccolos 50k, perhaps even 100k or greater, upon fusing with the Piccolo-Nail Great Namek their added PL would be 125k, or perhaps ~8-12mil. All the power of the Eternal Dragon, being sacrificed in Kamiccolos creation, may increase his maximum potential twentyfold to 240mil rivaling the Super Saiyans as in Canon (365mil PL in canon). [I think I heard a line by Popo in DBZ (not Kai, so likely not Manga/Canon) that says that Shenron has merged with Piccolo (either around the time when Kamiccolo merges, or during the 10 day Cell Games wait).]


Between Chiaotsu, Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha, Krillin is the most powerful fighter, Yajirobe has spared with Krillin without effort while dining, it is therefore likely that Yajirobe would be close to Vegeta and Piccolo in power if he were to train and fight like they do.

Question: Is the Saiyan race doomed to be lost to humanity? Would Raditz, Nappa, Turles, Broly, Tarble, or any other Saiyan be capable of turning ally as Vegeta has, or are there other Saiyans around to strengthen the bloodline?

Skipped/Missed/Rushed Content in Original Dragon Ball: Krillin/Yamcha/Tien/ Chioatsu reach Korin Tower and training with Korin then splitting up. Goku trains with Mr. Popo for the 23rd Tournament, has his tail removed and restores the moon, gets married to Chichi, and spends 1 month in the Room of Time and Spirit.

My Story: I watched DB/DBZ as a kid, mostly DBZ, watched through DBZ Kai recently, watched DB through for the first time, I just finished rewatching DBZ, going to watch GT and Super after, never saw the movies (except parts of cooler as a kid) so I watched those at the approximate episodes (got a list online, I finished all of them even the bad ones), I didn’t care for GT when I was younger because it didn’t seem to fit the story too well (I think some things were rewritten/retconned for the show?) also didn’t care for the colors it had vs DB/DBZ, it also came out later though. I like DBZ more than DB when I was younger but I am glad I went back and watched DB, it is pretty different from DBZ so I could see why someone who liked DBZ may not like DB, or why someone who liked DB may not like DBZ, but I enjoyed both and recommend watching DB first if you plan to watch both, just for the chronological order of things.

I figured out why the androids 17 and 18 are more powerful in the current timeline than in future Trunks’ universe. Trunks messed up. Dr. Gero said he stopped watching Goku rise in power after Goku left for Namek. People (fans) say this makes no sense as Gero would have no idea of the power of a Super Saiyan and yet he developed more-powerful androids. I believe he stopped watching Goku after he left for Namek because when Goku got back from Namek he brought Frieza with him, and Frieza brought cybernetics used to piece himself back together and a massive alien ship full of technology. Dr. Gero turned his attention from Goku to this new technology as a solution to the problem of how to actually defeat Goku. In future Trunks’ timeline Freeza's battle with Goku destroyed much of the technology resulting in weaker androids. In the Current timeline Frieza was pretty much cleanly assassinated by Trunks leaving the technology mostly intact for Gero to work with resulting in stronger androids. Trunks’ said he didn’t want to unnecessarily disrupt the timeline but thought he had to act. The difference in technology may have also resulted in the personality changes (less bloodthirsty 17 and 18 in current timeline).

Head Canon: destructive Ki blasts result in the growth of life, effectively the opposite of pollution. Planets left to ruin in battles actually grow back far greater in life due to the Ki energy left behind. When entire planets are destroyed in such blasts all of their energy is released to scatter in real space, it can be picked up by worlds along its path and help them grow to greater life, or can be attracted by techniques like the Universal Spirit Bomb or others.

Dragon Ball Super, Planets, and Power Scaling: go back and read the Universe/Real Space for more scale. Vegeta at 18k PL being able to blow up a planet and 139 PL Roshi blowing up the moon means that a PL of 605 could be enough to blow up the Earth, 18k being the minimum to blow up Earth means Roshi maxed out his Kamehameha at ~4150 PL, if Roshi maxed at 1k as I predicted (he did state he got stronger with age) then to destroy Earth would require ~4350 PL, then, based on the line-cube law, that means that SS3 Goku at ~415mil PL could blow up 323 quadrillion planets max, 12.25 trillion minimum, or 71.5 trillion predicted, each galaxy containing 1trillion planets and 100billion stars each ~300k planet-masses (30k galaxies worth of planets) means Goku could destroy ~11 (10.76) galaxies at most (this does not mean he could destroy any of the four galaxies as each is comprised of many ‘galaxies’ themselves), 0.041% of a galaxy at least (41 million solar systems), or 0.072% (72 million solar systems) predicted.

Lord Beerus: he is a magical entity like Janemba, Hirudegarn, Buu, Shenron/Parunga, but where there powers lie in their respective connections to this existence and their weaknesses, i.e. Confidence, Trash Talking, Enchanted Sword/Instruments, Spirit Bomb energy, Fusion Magic, Statues, Balls, etc., Lord Beerus’ power lies in his God-Ki. Goku was at SS3 PL when he met Lord Beerus (~415mil PL), he was smacked down in 2 blows, could have easily have been one with how very little effort and power Beerus used. This would suggest an insanely high PL. When Goku gains the energy of four others and fails to become a Super Saiyan God he may have gained almost all of Vegeta (SS2-3), Gohan (SS3), Trunks (SS2), and Goten (SS2) PL, however he was not outside real space and he was not magically fused, despite gaining a new effect akin to the electricity of SS2 vs the light of SS1, his hair did not grow to SS3 levels despite already being of that level. He never fights at this level so it is pointless to guess I suppose, Lord Beerus says the effect is superficial, but adding a ¼ Saiyan fetus is enough to turn him into a Super Saiyan God. This reverts Goku back to base form, similar to Gohan, but with red hair. It could be that all of the fives’ energy is used in converting the receivers’ Ki to God-Ki, at best I would assume it also increases on a level of fusion, so Goku now has a PL of 415-520mil and it is now in God-Ki form. This is said, after Goku gets used to the God-Ki effects, to be on par with ~70% of Lord Beerus Full Power, that means that Lord Beerus has a God-Ki PL of ~593-743mil. If as a Super Saiyan God Goku is able to utilize the full power of the five he may have reached a PL as high as ~650mil, putting Beerus at ~927mil PL. If anyone ever ends up beating Lord Beerus I’m sure it will be close and I would put their PL at ~1billion.

Golden Fifth Form Frieza: most beings sent to Hell would have their bodies taken away, however beings as powerful as Frieza and Cell, anyone of 8mil+ PL could prove some trouble, but of SS2-level beings, the maximum attainable of purely-real-space entities, their bodies can be nearly impossible to take away. Dabura had his body taken but he seemed to delight in the experience and may have chosen it. Otherwise such beings can only be erased from existence as they are, in combat, or they can be restrained by powerful magic, as in Freeza's’ Cocoon. Most beings good or evil cannot grow in power after death due to losing their bodies, the evil ones who are able to retain their bodies are often restrained in such a fashion as to keep them from growing in power through death. If they were not it would be possible for them to reach SS3 PLs, or even greater with the use of magic. Frieza was said to be the most powerful of the Frost Demons, he never trained, he sat around in first form floating in his hover car, and he naturally obtained a SS2 PL this way. Other powerful Frost Demons could keep up with the SS2 Super Saiyans by training and obtaining a fifth form, Frieza was at the maximum attainable for a being purely in real space and so training to fifth form would have been pointless. Upon death, however, his potential to grow to SS3 and beyond would be unlocked. He was able to fight on par with Super Saiyan God Goku who as discussed above must be at least ~415, or SS3, I would believe that Frieza may be capable of attaining the unattainable “SS4” without the fusion that Vegito/Gogeta or Super Buu had to go through, being that he is the most powerful being in the universe. I therefore think that proves the High end ~650mil PL for Goku and ~1bil PL for Beerus above to be false and the Low end PLs to be more truthful.

Add to Fight Scenes: when Lord Beerus flicks Goku on his forehead and sends him skidding across the surface of Kais planets, Goku stops skidding ¼ of the way around the planet, he should have skid several times around.

Vegeta Broke the 4th Wall DBZ Episode 172, “great, a dramatic entrance” one second before Piccolo enters dramatically.

Vegeta Broke the 4th Wall DBZ Episode 287, at the end he asks the audience “what are you looking at?”

Lord Beerus Broke the 4th Wall DBZ: Battle of the Gods, on deciding to head for earth he says the trip will take about as long as an average anime episode.


Frieza stronger than Android 17 per Daizenshuu 4 (?): (a joke video, but the idea that a Universal Spirit Bomb, versus a planetary/solar spirit bomb, would be significantly more powerful and powerful enough to drop an SS2-level PL by ~40% seems reasonable, realistically anything otherwise may be the case as plot demands.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neWZ5eurdYU

Why Frieza had to be stomped:

Cosmic_Coyote 1 year ago on Gamefaqs said:

Is a gimmick in DB, the previous enemy always shows up to get totally humiliated in front of everyone to show how strong is the new Saga´s Boss, it had happened to everyone at some point:

-General Blue vs Tao
-Pilaf Robots & Co after the Uranai Baba Tournament
-Jackie Chun (Roshi) vs Tien
-Cyborg Tao vs Tien
-Tien vs Goku in the 23rd Budokai
-Kami vs Piccolo
-Piccolo vs Raditz / Nappa
-Vegeta vs Zaarbon / Recoome / Frieza
-Mecha Frieza & King Cold vs SSJ Trunks
-SSJ Trunks / Future Gohan vs Androids 17 & 18
-Super Perfect Cell vs Pikkon
-Daabura (who was stated to be as strong as Cell) vs Fat Buu
-Fat Buu vs Evil Buu / Kid Buu
-Fat Buu / SSJ3 Goku vs Beerus
-Beerus knocked by Whis

[dbgtFO]

I took the liberty to split your post up in paragraphs in my reply to you, because it is almost unreadable, when you give the subject matters only one long paragraph each(please use paragraphs even within different subjects )

[spoiler]Explaining the power rise on Namek through Kaio Ken and the Zenkai: … After Goku gets his body back from Captain Ginyu, he spends some time in the medical chamber, in canon he spends ~10 episodes there after a relatively mild beating from Vegeta due to the lowered power level of Gokus body with Ginyu within. Goku arrives on Namek at 90k PL, he Kaiox2 for 180k against Ginyu who steals his body (upon returning to his old body Ginyu eats a Senzu Bean explaining they are given to Freeza's super elite for frontline emergencies), in rewrite Goku takes a Senzu Bean and Kaiox10 for 2mil against a third form Frieza, he gets a Zenkai to awaken at ~2mil, now to fight at Kaiox20 for ~40mil (20x greater than Final form Frieza at 1% power). The Saiyan Power Zenkai in all battles is rewritten such that whenever a Saiyan fights a more powerful foe and recovers they grow to a greater power than the inflicted damage, Krillin hurting Vegeta to be healed to a greater strength by Dende would not activate the Zenkai, Vegeta would grow in strength only to an equivalent of ‘training’ and not to the equivalent of ‘Zenkai’, it is rewritten such that second form Frieza inflicts the Zenkai damage on Vegeta which is healed by Dende. With these changes there is no need for the old-model healing chambers, instead they are shown to be very efficient. When Goku achieves Super Saiyan form he shoots up to ~150-160mil PL and stomps Frieza. When Goku does this he is under Kaiox20 which would make his base, that is Super Saiyan 1, ~8mil PL. So, Super Saiyan actually shot up Gokus PL from whatever it was after his Captain Ginyu Zenkai in canon (~250k-550k) up to 8mil, in rewrite it shoots up from ~1-2mil to 8mil.

More on Power Levels: in the Galactic Frieza Army soldiers are grouped as common soldiers, elites, and super elites. Vegeta at 18k PL believed himself to be the strongest of Freeza's Elites, Dodoria and (pretty, not ugly) Zarbon have PLs of ~24k in canon and talk about how weak Vegeta is. However, Vegeta can transform into a Great Ape at will using his Blutz-wave technique, his PL could reach then 180k. The elites must compare themselves to this when they call him weak and should so be rewritten to be on par with the Ginyu forces ~150-200k PL. If a random individual of a random species, like say Garlic Jr of the Makyans or Lord Slug of the Namekians, could reach a PL of 1.5mil, then these PLs should be common among the Super Elites of Freeza's Forces, I.E. among the Ginyu Forces, who are known to be of such a power that Vegeta does not even compare himself to when he says he is the strongest of the elites, even while he has a Great Ape form of 180k PL.

The Ginyu force is rewritten to be on the power level of Lord Slug, Garlic Jr., etc. ~1-8mil PL. With Freeza's above 260mil max 144mil vs Goku 2.6mil (1%) vs Trunks (Gohan says Frieza is supressing his power the whole time), Gokus’ 150mil max, Trunks’ at ~8mil minimum. Vegeta never fought Frieza with any kind of effectiveness (due to not obtaining Super Saiyan form in time), nor has he so much as sparred with Goku since his battle with Frieza, after obtaining Super Saiyan form he fights 19 and obliterates him but loses much of his power in the process, Goku lost to 19 but only because of his Heart condition which reduced his 150mil PL to an unknown but effectively 0 (zero) PL.

Piccolo who now may be as high as ~8mil PL was too much for 20 to handle, who said he was greater in power than 19, so Vegeta is Possibly confirmed above 8mil PL. 17 and 18 show they are too much for Vegeta, Trunks, or Piccolo, with their Limitless Stamina they need only a slightly higher PL in order to completely stomp opposition (important rule, 8k vs 9k will be a close battle, 8k vs 9k with Limitless Stamina will be a stomp, 230mil PL vs 3x 160mil PL = close battle, 170mil PL Limitless Stamina vs 160mil x100 1-at-a-time = stomp), so 17 and 18 have Possibly confirmed PLs of ~9mil or greater. Trunks’ sword was imbued with a Ki Destructo Disc when he attacked Frieza who was unprepared and at 1% power at ~2.6mil PL (being at 1% Final Form in anticipation of the Super Saiyan Goku, but not at 100% as he was not currently in active battle nor properly prepared for the attack, Gohan says Frieza is suppressing his power) he effectively assassinated Frieza by having future knowledge of him.

The rewrite could establish this by having Trunks strain in battle vs Freeza's Super Elite forces (the Makyan, King Cold, especially the robot, etc. perhaps they are dispatched and taken out in hard battle by the other z fighters while Trunks waits to assassinate Frieza, and then struggles against Cold). Goku being at 150mil PL in Super Saiyan form is only able to defeat 50% Final form Frieza 120mil PL (or 100% Full Power Final form Frieza (240mil PL) after a Universal Spirit Bomb reduces his overall PL by 40%, to 144mil for a close battle), by Android Saga he is able to hold Super Saiyan form naturally with a PL of ~150mil. The Androids fighting on par with Trunks in his own universe puts them at only ~8mil with Limitless Stamina, even being stronger in this universe only ~9mil PL.

Cell is made from Freeza's Nucleus and absorbs 17 and 18s power (11+mil combined plus his approximately 16-level PL (~10mil) after absorbing cities = ~13.3mil, Perfect Cells full power was undoubtedly at least as great as Freeza's 260mil PL, Super Saiyan 2 is actually on par with Freeza's 100%, Cell, Dabura, etc). Kamiccolos full power then may not exceed ~14mil. Goku says he is not strong enough to fight Cell who at this time is only as strong as 16, who is now only confirmed to be ~11mil, however, Goku has just awoken from his Heart condition and he has not shown himself capable, even slightly, of transforming into a Super Saiyan since he has awoken. It is only after he enter the time chamber that he transforms, this likely explains why he wanted to train with Gohan, so that he could build up his own strength. It is also likely that after all of his nightmares in his coma he wanted to spend time with his family, especially his son. This is the big lie, that the androids were so powerful when in actuality if goku could even go SS1 he would have stomped them, and Vegeta and Trunks after training in the Time Chamber could have done the same despite reaching only 62% of Freeza's full power. However unlikely, would the rest of the entire Android and Cell Sagas make sense if Frieza was at 1% PL when Trunks assassinated him, if Trunks maxed out around 3% of Freeza's Full Power, and if the androids maxed around 5%? Yes or no? The Kaio Ken and Spirit Bomb are so powerful because they are God techniques, only learned once Goku Dies and returns back to life.

For another example of what resurrection can afford someone in power in DB; Tien, Chiaotsu, Krillin, and Yamcha would easily be beaten by Nappa at 4k PL, after death and resurrection they can easily defeat the Ginyu Force at ~200k PL (Krillin and Tien are max 800k on many scales at the end of everything). They, however, did not learn any god techniques. The androids being so weak also explains how 18 was struggling against Goten and Trunks as Mighty Mask in the Tournament when, despite being Super Saiyans, they had not trained as Vegeta, Trunks, or Gohan (in future Trunks timeline, where he is said to be Trunks’ teacher), who were no match for 18 even as Super Saiyans. It makes sense if the three were at ~8mil PL while Goten and Trunks were able to jump to ~10mil PL pretty quickly as kids, it makes less sense if Goten and Trunks somehow jumped to 100-400+mil PL each, enough with the Mighty Mask outfit handicapping them to still overpower 18, or at least cause her to struggle. To be clear, while training for Cell Vegeta is able to better catch up with Goku, as is Trunks, Gohan is able to reach Super Saiyan 2 which I would place at least on par with Freeza's Full Power 100% 260mil, likely up to ~300mil, Super Perfect Cell therefore reached slightly above this level, requiring Tien and others to aid in the final Super Kamehameha Wave by attacking Cell on the sideline. After Cell it is said that Gohan loses this power yet he is able to keep up with Dabura who is stated to be as strong as Cell, therefore only slightly stronger than Frieza if at all, likely he retained his power as he was only a kid and now as an adult despite the lack of training he would be able to keep up with his kid self. Vegeta and Goku trained to be on the Super Saiyan 2 level, Vegeta finally surpassing Freeza's PL only after Cell is defeated.

They likely would have trained until they would be able to defeat Cell and Frieza with only a relatively minor struggle ~310-330mil PL by Buu Saga, minimum. SS1 Grade 1 is 1-8mil PL, used against Frieza by Goku with Kaiox20 for 150mil PL, which is on par with SS1 Grade 2. Grade 2 is achieved by vegeta and trunks only after entering the time chamber, Grade 3 is Trunks’ trading speed for power, Grade 4 is Goku and Gohan in a relaxed SS1 state, here they are likely at ~200-260mil PL. SS1 represents a Saiyan moving from a hospitable world to their natural environment, SS2 represents a trained and powerful adult Saiyan on their Sun-Planet, the full power of the great ape, this is also the power of a trained adult Frost Demon (Frieza obtained this status naturally), while SS3 is an unnatural overcharging of a Full Power SS2 under extreme environmental pressure that may reach ~475mil PL, like a human adrenaline rush but only obtainable at this level, as a Saiyan at a lower level overcharges themselves to the next power level up, i.e. how Goku as a Saiyan was able to ‘rush’ to Super Saiyan form against Frieza.[/spoiler]

How much is this rewrite and how much of it do you think is actually what is in canon?
For example you say:

When Goku does this he is under Kaiox20 which would make his base, that is Super Saiyan 1, ~8mil PL. So, Super Saiyan actually shot up Gokus PL from whatever it was after his Captain Ginyu Zenkai in canon (~250k-550k) up to 8mil, in rewrite it shoots up from ~1-2mil to 8mil.

You seem to think Goku, when fighting Freeza only had a power level of 250k-550k, without Kaio-ken?

Gero: It has always bothered me that Dr. Gero, a human scientist on an isolated planet, would be able to create androids more powerful than the ruler of the universe, despite millions of other planets and species advanced enough for space travel attempting to stop him all failing, and this is not even his goal, his goal is not to overpower the strongest being in all of the universe, and yet that is what he does. I have recently rewatched DBZ with this in mind and it surprised me to learn that it is possible that the androids were not even a fraction of the strength we are lead to believe they are.
It is very cleverly written as to trick us, but the only real comparison we have between Frieza and the Androids strength is through Trunks, and IF Frieza was at 1% power when trunks assassinated him THEN the rest of the arc makes perfect sense with first grade Super Saiyans and Piccolo never reaching above 4% PL (excepting Goku with his Kaio Ken who made it to 62%) and the androids never reaching above 5%.
The only other contradiction is after Goku wakes up from his coma and says he is not strong enough to fight Cell who is as strong as 16, BUT Goku is never even shown to be able to enter Super Saiyan state AT ALL until after he enters the Time Chamber anyway so it may be that he was severely weakened. I believe all of this was written in on purpose, Frieza was defeated in a kind of a fluke while the Adroid/Cell Sagas are all about how the Saiyans and possibly Piccolo actually obtain a power level on par with Frieza. Gohans SS2 and Super Perfect Cell were the only ones who may have been greater in power, 300-330mil PL vs Cyborg Frieza 100% 260mil PL.

A lot of people seem to think there is something wrong with a guy having a certain goal in mind, but ending up far beyond that. That part of the problem with androids stronger than Freeza never bothered me. Just because you aim relatively low, doesn't mean you can't end up doing massively better just by chance or miracle. It is of course plot, but one that I don't have much of a problem with.
Otherwise yeah, unfortunately Toriyama didn't give us any indication Freeza powered up against Trunks, so his reasons for that can be interpreted however you want, which of course people have and end up with this interpretation, where Freeza's actual full power would have given even Cell at his strongest a run for his money.

[spoiler]Perhaps by force or perhaps by choice they would revert themselves back to human form and reduce their powers by moving to the Tuffle home world, which would be chosen for its lack of blutz-wave radiation, the Tuffles would be told never to give them the technology to get off planet or else the Saiyans power would once again grow, they may be told this by the ones responsible for the Saiyans, or if the Saiyans do this of their own accord they may tell the Tuffles themselves never to give the technology to future generations. This edict would live on as a kind of myth, never let a Saiyan off planet, future generations would forget that it was their own races decision, if indeed that is the case, or disagree with the decision and feel oppressed, resulting in the Tuffle-Saiyan War. The Super Saiyan transformation is just a channeling of the Great Apes power, the Great Apes of the Star Planet were always in Super Saiyan form as Golden Great Apes, this level of power was the only strong enough to survive this environment. The Blutz wave can recreate the Great Ape form without channeling the full Super Saiyan power resulting in the common Great Ape form. The Star Planet would work because ‘no matter what angle you were looking at it at, it would be full’ and the thousands-times fluctuating gravity complete with moving wells, the solar-flare-level radiation bursts, and the super hurricane force currents. It would be no wonder then that once they readapted to worlds habitable by ‘normal’ ‘typical’ biology they would also be able to live and fight in any environment in between, as King Kai says this is the true secret to the power of the Saiyans.[/spoiler]

Would have been great with more lore exploring the Saiyans' great monkey form, I personally just see it as a constant evolution and their monkey forms being reduced to being something they could transform into with outside influence, instead of being their default form like it once was.

Frieza doesn’t have any regeneration capability but he can be torn to pieces in deep space and he is fine, he can survive any injury and condition so long as the nucleus in his head remains intact. Dr. Gero moved the entirety of the remains of future Trunks/Freeza's battle, the ship, back to his lab. Freeza's cybernetics were used in developing the androids allowing them to hold and withstand vast amounts of power once absorbed. He may have even found a surviving alien, the scientist responsible for putting Frieza back together, and worked alongside him. He collected Freeza's bisected nucleus but was unable to duplicate it or heal it, due to the unique method of its creation, instead he was able to biologically reprogram and repurpose it for use in Cell. In the alternate universe future Trunks comes from Goku defeats Frieza on earth in a hard-won battle which leaves little for Gero to work with, as opposed to Trunks’ assassination which preserved much of the alien technology resulting in 17 and 18 becoming more powerful in the current timeline. Dr. Gero stopped watching Goku after he left for Namek because when Goku came back from Namek he brought Frieza with him and Gero turned his attention to the technology Frieza brought with him to develop the androids to a strength which could crush Goku.

I figured out why the androids 17 and 18 are more powerful in the current timeline than in future Trunks’ universe. Trunks messed up. Dr. Gero said he stopped watching Goku rise in power after Goku left for Namek. People (fans) say this makes no sense as Gero would have no idea of the power of a Super Saiyan and yet he developed more-powerful androids. I believe he stopped watching Goku after he left for Namek because when Goku got back from Namek he brought Frieza with him, and Frieza brought cybernetics used to piece himself back together and a massive alien ship full of technology. Dr. Gero turned his attention from Goku to this new technology as a solution to the problem of how to actually defeat Goku. In future Trunks’ timeline Freeza's battle with Goku destroyed much of the technology resulting in weaker androids. In the Current timeline Frieza was pretty much cleanly assassinated by Trunks leaving the technology mostly intact for Gero to work with resulting in stronger androids. Trunks’ said he didn’t want to unnecessarily disrupt the timeline but thought he had to act. The difference in technology may have also resulted in the personality changes (less bloodthirsty 17 and 18 in current timeline).

Should be the reverse in that case, as we see Trunks vaporize Freeza and Cold and he blew up their ship too. If anything Goku in the original timeline might have left the ship intact, as it's very in character for him, whereas Trunks just destroyed everything.

Frieza stronger than Android 17 per Daizenshuu 4 (?):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neWZ5eurdYU

It's a joke video, parodying the good ol DB debates, when somebody would just refer to obscure DB guidebooks in a language they don't personally understand, as their proof.

[SaiyanJack]

I took the liberty to split your post up in paragraphs in my reply to you, because it is almost unreadable, when you give the subject matters only one long paragraph each(please use paragraphs even within different subjects )

I used your template for the 'more on power levels' bit, ill go through today and try to make it more readable, thank you.

How much is this rewrite and how much of it do you think is actually what is in canon?
For example you say:

When Goku does this he is under Kaiox20 which would make his base, that is Super Saiyan 1, ~8mil PL. So, Super Saiyan actually shot up Gokus PL from whatever it was after his Captain Ginyu Zenkai in canon (~250k-550k) up to 8mil, in rewrite it shoots up from ~1-2mil to 8mil.

You seem to think Goku, when fighting Freeza only had a power level of 250k-550k, without Kaio-ken?

I had assumed after Gokus Zenkai against a ~200k PL Captain Ginyu that Gokus Canon PL would be 250k-550k, it honestly wasnt a point of importance for me so I never verified, that is my bad as far as others reading this are concerned. I just looked it up and I think Base Goku was 3million against Frieza? that puts him above my 1-2mil range for sure so no need for that PL rewrite lol. Thanks.

I thought about this more and I must have overlooked it before. In order to be on par with 3rd form Frieza Goku would have to be ~3mil PL. All the PL stuff gets confusing after rewriting it so many times, partly why I put this up to see if there were obvious mistakes I kept overlooking.

A lot of people seem to think there is something wrong with a guy having a certain goal in mind, but ending up far beyond that. That part of the problem with androids stronger than Freeza never bothered me. Just because you aim relatively low, doesn't mean you can't end up doing massively better just by chance or miracle. It is of course plot, but one that I don't have much of a problem with.

My problem was not with his goal, but how he actually achieved it. Being a single scientist on a non-spacefaring planet he was somehow able to create a device which could defeat Frieza, meanwhile an entire universe of spacefaring cultures are all unable to defeat Frieza despite years of subjugation. He could have had a goal of 400mil PL or 6bil PL but no one in the universe had that kind of technology, the technology I see as feasible is within the range of 'super elites', or only slightly above.

Otherwise yeah, unfortunately Toriyama didn't give us any indication Freeza powered up against Trunks, so his reasons for that can be interpreted however you want, which of course people have and end up with this interpretation, where Freeza's actual full power would have given even Cell at his strongest a run for his money.

I had read Toriyama state Frieza was at 10% with a 13.5mil PL against future Turnks, being 120mil at 100% on Namek and 135mil at 100% as a cyborg.

Would have been great with more lore exploring the Saiyans' great monkey form, I personally just see it as a constant evolution and their monkey forms being reduced to being something they could transform into with outside influence, instead of being their default form like it once was.

I'm glad someone read through all of that lol.

Should be the reverse in that case, as we see Trunks vaporize Freeza and Cold and he blew up their ship too. If anything Goku in the original timeline might have left the ship intact, as it's very in character for him, whereas Trunks just destroyed everything.

I had thought about that when I saw Frieza vaporized. I never saw him destroy the ship, however, so that gave me hope.

It's a joke video, parodying the good ol DB debates, when somebody would just refer to obscure DB guidebooks in a language they don't personally understand, as their proof.

I was afraid I was just making a fool of myself there lol, thanks. It does, however, make a lot of sense to me that a Universal Spirit Bomb (as opposed to planetary/solar) would be significantly more powerful and could likely reduce an SS2 PL equivalent by 40% (or otherwise as the plot demands).

I really appreciate your time, hope you enjoyed some of what I wrote despite it being hard to read.

[Soccerjam]

The actual reason: https://youtu.be/8OKd7i-h-Ms

[Pantalones]

Head Canon: destructive Ki blasts result in the growth of life, effectively the opposite of pollution. Planets left to ruin in battles actually grow back far greater in life due to the Ki energy left behind. When entire planets are destroyed in such blasts all of their energy is released to scatter in real space, it can be picked up by worlds along its path and help them grow to greater life, or can be attracted by techniques like the Universal Spirit Bomb or others.

I actually really like this idea. Ki is described as being basically life-energy, after all, and it seems like planets and stars do have their own "background radiation" level of ki that Goku can draw upon for the Spirit Bomb -- so ki blasts basically acting as "fertilizer" for new life to develop works pretty well. Fits in nicely with the God of Destruction/Kaioshin thing too, when Beerus destroys planets the residual energy left behind could be part of the process the Kaioshins would use to cause new worlds to come into being.