Super Saiyan Transformation and "Tingling Backs"

[Shineman]

How come people are up in arms about Super Saiyan being "cheapen" or "retconned"?

As far as I'm aware of, Super Saiyan was never explained how the form is even accessed aside from just "training really hard" nor it was presented as this special form required by specific means. Outside of Goku, every single saiyan achieved the form off-screen in the manga. For the anime, excluding Future Trunks, every saiyan got it aside from "emotional trauma".

How Cabba explained the form didn't add anything new nor extend it. He was explaining, after he first and mastered the form, that he felt like this when he becomes Super Saiyan. Caulifia simply just followed to what Cabba described how HE felt because she was able to control her Ki in a way that allowed her to become one easily.

They tried to do the same thing for Kale, only for it to fail. Anger didn't work out either, but all it took for her is jealousy. It's clear that Super Saiyan transformation activates when you have high enough power and Ki control. What do you guys think?

[precita]

Until stated otherwise, I also think this is only for Universe 6 Saiyans too. None of the Saiyans in our universe were ever shown to do this, so I just chalk this up to it being an alternate universe. Same reason they don't have tails and they're all skinny and not barbarians like Saiyans in U7 were.

So I don't think this contradicts anything, at least for U7. Different universe, different rules.

[Ki Breaker]

I have decided to go with a minimum amount of base power required before achieving SS, and uni 6 Saiyans trained their bases all this time..

Its the the fact that they are long overdue for a transformation , even the sight of SS and how it feels in the body is enough to replicate it..

Cauliflowa went SS2 right off the bat as well, their bases are strong enough to access these transformations and now that they know how, it's only a matter of time.. or seconds in case of cauliflowa

[Boo Machine]

The explanation doesn't help matters.

Someone else made a good point of that, if they explained it in a different way, like along the lines of, "Focus all your energy into your back then unleash it" it would have been much better than " make your back tingly". I don't think it contradicts anything, but cabbas explanation can come off as a little silly.

I've seen a few reaction channels rationalize it as just another way to do SSJ. Or if not that, just outright accept it because they thought it was cool.

Either way I don't really mind. I can see why people think Caulifla is getting her forms a little to fast, but SSJ has been easy for years. Years before Super was a thing. Goten and Trunks did it before they hit the age of 10. In Super Vegeta was surprised Cabba didn't have it when he met him already because at this point a saiyan without SSJ is unthinkable.

[cheddarsword]

The transformations actually seem to have a basis now, and we actually have the new method of transformation to thank for that. Without it, Me and MasakoX wouldn't have made these. Go into this topic and video with a bit of an open mind on things, and you might be surprised at how much sense it all makes. I do recommend watching his video first. He explains things better than me and adds in things I neglect. I however cover Super Saiyan 4, and explain things just a bit differently. Both are worth the time though, and actually find some middle ground for both universes.

MasakoX's video on Saiyans and Chakra:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1CDyXzIXY4

My topic on Super Saiyans and Chakra:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38768

I have yet to look closely at the video yet, but if I'm not mistaken, Kale's LSS form focuses green energy higher on the back than Cabba and Caulifla focus their yellow energy, which only makes this more accurate.

[Generico Garbagio]

What feels weird about how easy it is to unlock SSJ and SSJ2 for Caulifla is that she hadn't unlocked it before. At this point it feels like any saiyan that's strong enough should be able to unlock SSJ if they're constipated and need to push a little.

[sintzu]

How come people are up in arms about Super Saiyan being "cheapen" or "retconned"?

Because that's what it is. We're to the point where not only are they designing them based on parodys but now anyone can get them by just powering up. I know there isn't an official way to reach it but aside from Goten and Trunks who got it easy (which surprised everyone unlike now), everyone else had to go through hell and back to get it.

[cheddarsword]

How come people are up in arms about Super Saiyan being "cheapen" or "retconned"?

Because that's what it is. We're to the point where not only are they designing them based on parodys but now anyone can get them by just powering up. I know there isn't an official way to reach it but aside from Goten and Trunks who got it easy (which surprised everyone unlike now), everyone else had to go through hell and back to get it.

Frieza Saga: You must be pure of heart and full of rage.

Android Saga: Trunks goes super without explanation (until later) and Vegeta completely throws away the Pure of Heart requirement.

Cell Saga: Gohan goes super saiyan. Granted, it follows the rage route, but still, every existing saiyan is now super!

World Tournament Saga: Goten goes super without even knowing what he's doing, and trunks goes super right in front of Vegeta. No training, no experience, nothing. All Saiyans including new arrivals are now super.

Buu Saga: Gotenks goes SS3 simply from Goten and Trunks WATCHING Goku do it, completely skipping SS2.

Universe 6 Saga: Cabba rages his way to Super Saiyan after prodding from the prince.

Universe Survival Saga: A new discovery is made on how Super Saiyan is achieved, and Caulifla becomes the first Female Super Saiyan, followed immediately by Kale RAGING HER WAY INTO LSS! Also, Caulifla being the PRODIGY that she is, having mastered the transformation part of Super Saiyan, boosts herself to SS2.

Okay. So WHERE exactly does this "bargain sale" begin?

Also, Kale tries to focus her energy in her back, but that craps out. She finds LSS the same way that Vegeta found SS. Why is this a problem? The only saiyans that cheap out on Super Saiyan are Goten, Trunks, Cabba and Caulifla, leaving Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Future Gohan and Future Trunks using the tried and true rage.

The only problem with the Super Saiyan Bargain Sale, is the fact that it's based on illogical arguments.

[mute_proxy]

We're talking about how they achieved the form, not how they were shown first on screen. Pure of heart was never official. Everyone strugled to become one, except for Goten and Trunks. And Gotenks becoming SS3 took quite some time in the time chamber, even though they were prodgies. They did not "skip" SS2, they went through it and past it.

After this it gets ridiculous.

Cabba and Kale transforms after getting a little upset over words (it's like none of the saiyans of U6 have ever felt anger or have been insulted since the beginning of time). And Caulifla gets SS1 by focusing some energy in her back and SS2 just because why not.

This is dumb.

[Generico Garbagio]

I'm calling it now, Baby Pan replaces Frieza in U7 team and goes SSJ4 in the ToP after Gohan pats her back trying to make her burp.

[sintzu]

I'm calling it now, Baby Pan replaces Frieza in U7 team and goes SSJ4 in the ToP after Gohan pats her back trying to make her burp.

Please keep these ideas to yourself, you never know which Toei suit is reading this looking for ideas.

[cheddarsword]

Actually there's some rumors going around about this in future episodes. Though the source of the rumors is trustworthy, we won't have proof until about episode 95. As for some of what they entail...

[spoiler]Frieza betrays U7 and joins U4 instead and due to there being no time left, Goku enters with 9 people. Also, ringouts now cause the fighters to instantly disappear. One thing more. Tiny one really. Episode 98 is currently unnamed.[/spoiler]

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Actually there's some rumors going around about this in future episodes. Though the source of the rumors is trustworthy, we won't have proof until about episode 95. As for some of what they entail...

[spoiler]Frieza betrays U7 and joins U4 instead and due to there being no time left, Goku enters with 9 people. Also, ringouts now cause the fighters to instantly disappear. One thing more. Tiny one really. Episode 98 is currently unnamed.[/spoiler]

How does it relate to this thread?

[cheddarsword]

Actually there's some rumors going around about this in future episodes. Though the source of the rumors is trustworthy, we won't have proof until about episode 95. As for some of what they entail...

[spoiler]Frieza betrays U7 and joins U4 instead and due to there being no time left, Goku enters with 9 people. Also, ringouts now cause the fighters to instantly disappear. One thing more. Tiny one really. Episode 98 is currently unnamed.[/spoiler]

How does it relate to this thread?

It doesn't. It relates to what Generico Garbagio and sintzu were talking about.

[Rod]

Trunks and Goten literally just got SS as kids with no training. I don't get the hate

Plus clearly she meant this

"Focus all your energy into your back then unleash it"

I'm more interested in what Cale's transformation is exactly (I will be upset if it's LSS, that shouldn't be a thing)

[TheGodfather93]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv-Esa1EVIw

This is a pretty good video going into the deeper meaning behind the 'tingly back'.

[DrakenballP]

Trunks and Goten literally just got SS as kids with no training. I don't get the hate

Plus clearly she meant this

"Focus all your energy into your back then unleash it"

I'm more interested in what Cale's transformation is exactly (I will be upset if it's LSS, that shouldn't be a thing)

Born of Saiyan Blood and have been in combat numerous times. Learned to harness their emotions as well.

[Generico Garbagio]

Actually there's some rumors going around about this in future episodes. Though the source of the rumors is trustworthy, we won't have proof until about episode 95. As for some of what they entail...

[spoiler]Frieza betrays U7 and joins U4 instead and due to there being no time left, Goku enters with 9 people. Also, ringouts now cause the fighters to instantly disappear. One thing more. Tiny one really. Episode 98 is currently unnamed.[/spoiler]

How does it relate to this thread?

It doesn't. It relates to what Generico Garbagio and sintzu were talking about.

Baby Pan OP plz nerf.

[arromdee]

Android Saga: Trunks goes super without explanation (until later) and Vegeta completely throws away the Pure of Heart requirement.

Didn't Vegeta claim he was "pure evil"? It was stupid, granted, but the requirement wasn't completely thrown away.

Also, not everyone rejects GT. Gokuu Jr. went SSJ 100 years in the future in the special. It did seem to require emotion.

[cheddarsword]

Android Saga: Trunks goes super without explanation (until later) and Vegeta completely throws away the Pure of Heart requirement.

Didn't Vegeta claim he was "pure evil"? It was stupid, granted, but the requirement wasn't completely thrown away.

Also, not everyone rejects GT. Gokuu Jr. went SSJ 100 years in the future in the special. It did seem to require emotion.

I look at it like this. Cabba and Caulifla simply found an easier way to get SS/SS2. Me and Masako already linked both methods of transformation by explaining Chakra,

Besides, I don't really care if every saiyan found out how to do super. It doesn't take much away from the transformation really. It's still interesting. In fact, it makes the entire Saiyan race seem special instead, which works for me. People getting salty over this just ends up making me salty too. Why is this a problem for people?

Rod's above post about how LSS shouldn't exist makes no sense to me! Why is it a bad thing for LSS to exist within the official timeline? It's not like every saiyan can do it!