Final Form Frieza's real power

[supercat]

When Frieza first fought Goku on Namek, he was roughtly utilizing around 2.5% of his final form's full power. It wasn't until later that he powered up to 50% and finally 100%. Seeing as how his bulked up 100% form was never shown or even mentioned during RoF, could it be that his golden form simply replaced it? Meaning, his final form was only tapping into about 2-3% of his full power, much akin to how he was on Namek.

I think it makes sense, as both his golden and 100% forms take a major toll on his stamina and how he never bulked up while fighting in his final form during the events of RoF. I also find this quite plausible, because that would mean that his first form was only 5-6 times weaker than his final form. That's assuming he had the same multipliers as he did on Namek.

In any case, this is how I normally view things:

First Form Frieza = Buutenks - Buuhan
Second Form Frieza = Stronger than Buuhan, but notably weaker than SSJ Vegetto (Buu Saga)
Third Form Frieza = Could be a notch above SSJ Vegetto (Buu Saga)
Final Form Frieza = Could be around SSJ2 Vegetto (Buu Saga)

[dragon boss z]

I don't think Frieza is nearly that strong.
I would say his first form is around Cell to Fat Buu level and his final form anywhere from kid Buu to ssj Vegito.

[supercat]

I don't think Frieza is nearly that strong.
I would say his first form is around Cell to Fat Buu level and his final form anywhere from kid Buu to ssj Vegito.

Cell is most likely out of the question. First Form Frieza being a bit weaker than Buuhan could be possible, but I doubt it's to the point where he's only Mr. Buu tier. I get it, a lot of people don't want to cheapen universal powerhouses like Buu and unique power ups like fusion, but it wouldn't be the first time story progression left seemingly unreachable benchmarks in the dust. Buu getting left behind is no different than two mechanically-enhanced Earthlings debuting with powers greater than some galactic tyrant who was feared throughout the universe. The way I see it, Buu is like the old Frieza and SSJ Vegetto (Buu Saga) is like SSJ Goku when he first transformed on Namek. Both were strong and awe-inspiring at first, but were quickly surpassed as the plot required and new characters were introduced.

[dragon boss z]

Cell is most likely out of the question. First Form Frieza being a bit weaker than Buuhan could be possible, but I doubt it's to the point where he's only Mr. Buu tier. I get it, a lot of people don't want to cheapen universal powerhouses like Buu and unique power ups like fusion, but it wouldn't be the first time story progression left seemingly unreachable benchmarks in the dust. Buu getting left behind is no different than two mechanically-enhanced Earthlings debuting with powers greater than some galactic tyrant who was feared throughout the universe. The way I see it, Buu is like the old Frieza and SSJ Vegetto (Buu Saga) is like SSJ Goku when he first transformed on Namek. Both were strong and awe-inspiring at first, but were quickly surpassed as the plot required and new characters were introduced.

I'm not saying first form Frieza couldn't of surpassed Buuhan, but there is no evidence he did. His best feat is beating a weakened ssj Gohan. Even Cell could of done that.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Cell is most likely out of the question. First Form Frieza being a bit weaker than Buuhan could be possible, but I doubt it's to the point where he's only Mr. Buu tier. I get it, a lot of people don't want to cheapen universal powerhouses like Buu and unique power ups like fusion, but it wouldn't be the first time story progression left seemingly unreachable benchmarks in the dust. Buu getting left behind is no different than two mechanically-enhanced Earthlings debuting with powers greater than some galactic tyrant who was feared throughout the universe. The way I see it, Buu is like the old Frieza and SSJ Vegetto (Buu Saga) is like SSJ Goku when he first transformed on Namek. Both were strong and awe-inspiring at first, but were quickly surpassed as the plot required and new characters were introduced.

I'm not saying first form Frieza couldn't of surpassed Buuhan, but there is no evidence he did. His best feat is beating a weakened ssj Gohan. Even Cell could of done that.

That also runs into the issue of where we place SS Gohan during that arc, whether his base form was at/above Piccolo's power or not. Either way, Freeza trained enough that he intended to easily beat a Goku that he heard defeated Pure Buu.

So, at the very least, he should be stronger than most forms of Majin Buu, which makes sense, since Goku isn't massively above his RoF strength by the time he evenly fights against Copy-Vegeta, who easily trounced SS3 Gotenks, an equal to Super Buu.

[dragon boss z]

That also runs into the issue of where we place SS Gohan during that arc, whether his base form was at/above Piccolo's power or not.

In the RoF movie Gohan pretty much compared himself to Namek saga Goku by saying "It took my dad everything he had on Namek to win and Frieza got even stronger, I can't win". Going off that line he must be somewhere around Namek saga Goku (at least in the movie version). This also makes sense since he even said he didn't even know he could go ssj, as someone namek saga Goku level didn't master it yet. He should also be weaker than he was in the Buu saga since in the Buu saga he could still go ssj2.
As for Piccolo I feel he was nerfed for the arc.

Either way, Freeza trained enough that he intended to easily beat a Goku that he heard defeated Pure Buu.

Yes, but Frieza instantly goes final form when Goku arrives, so Frieza felt he at least needed that much to beat someone who beat Buu.

So, at the very least, he should be stronger than most forms of Majin Buu, which makes sense, since Goku isn't massively above his RoF strength by the time he evenly fights against Copy-Vegeta, who easily trounced SS3 Gotenks, an equal to Super Buu.

Yep imo
Perfect Cell<=>First form Frieza<<<kid Buu<final form Frieza

[supercat]

Cell is most likely out of the question. First Form Frieza being a bit weaker than Buuhan could be possible, but I doubt it's to the point where he's only Mr. Buu tier. I get it, a lot of people don't want to cheapen universal powerhouses like Buu and unique power ups like fusion, but it wouldn't be the first time story progression left seemingly unreachable benchmarks in the dust. Buu getting left behind is no different than two mechanically-enhanced Earthlings debuting with powers greater than some galactic tyrant who was feared throughout the universe. The way I see it, Buu is like the old Frieza and SSJ Vegetto (Buu Saga) is like SSJ Goku when he first transformed on Namek. Both were strong and awe-inspiring at first, but were quickly surpassed as the plot required and new characters were introduced.

I'm not saying first form Frieza couldn't of surpassed Buuhan, but there is no evidence he did. His best feat is beating a weakened ssj Gohan. Even Cell could of done that.

That also runs into the issue of where we place SS Gohan during that arc, whether his base form was at/above Piccolo's power or not. Either way, Freeza trained enough that he intended to easily beat a Goku that he heard defeated Pure Buu.

So, at the very least, he should be stronger than most forms of Majin Buu, which makes sense, since Goku isn't massively above his RoF strength by the time he evenly fights against Copy-Vegeta, who easily trounced SS3 Gotenks, an equal to Super Buu.

Base Gohan was stated to be the strongest of the group. Plus, Frieza saying Gohan could defeat his entire army effortlessly is good enough indication for me to believe he was in fact the stronger than Piccolo.

What probably happened was, Gohan started regressing, but was still able to access some of his Ultimate power in base, thereby giving him a stronger base. Going SSJ or SSJ2 was probably the only way to draw out power that was even remotely close to his former Ultimate self. My guess is RoF Gohan at full power is a few tiers stronger than his Z Sword self.

The way I see it, Final Form Frieza is probably leagues above all forms of Buu, whereas his first form is somewhere around some of the stronger Buus. So basically he went straight to final form to secure his victory. I mean, he knew Goku was stronger than Buu, so assuming his first form was only a little stronger than Buuhan, he probably felt it wasn't wise to take chances.

[Cipher]

Power-level-posting for a minute and I don't know why:

Freeza's first form being around fat Boo's level ought to be enough to immediately incapacitate an off-guard Gohan, as that's more or less what Boo does upon his revival.

His final form would then pretty reasonably be well above all forms of Boo, except maybe Boo-han? Someone could math that out, but I'm sure it's nothing Toriyama had on his mind.

[supercat]

That also runs into the issue of where we place SS Gohan during that arc, whether his base form was at/above Piccolo's power or not.

In the RoF movie Gohan pretty much compared himself to Namek saga Goku by saying "It took my dad everything he had on Namek to win and Frieza got even stronger, I can't win". Going off that line he must be somewhere around Namek saga Goku (at least in the movie version). This also makes sense since he even said he didn't even know he could go ssj, as someone namek saga Goku level didn't master it yet. He should also be weaker than he was in the Buu saga since in the Buu saga he could still go ssj2.
As for Piccolo I feel he was nerfed for the arc.

Either way, Freeza trained enough that he intended to easily beat a Goku that he heard defeated Pure Buu.

Yes, but Frieza instantly goes final form when Goku arrives, so Frieza felt he at least needed that much to beat someone who beat Buu.

So, at the very least, he should be stronger than most forms of Majin Buu, which makes sense, since Goku isn't massively above his RoF strength by the time he evenly fights against Copy-Vegeta, who easily trounced SS3 Gotenks, an equal to Super Buu.

Yep imo
Perfect Cell<=>First form Frieza<<<kid Buu<final form Frieza

I doubt Gohan regressed that much. Especially when you consider the fact that he was in his Ultimate form when he fought Beerus. I mean, we've seen Gohan step away from training for much longer periods of time, and the regression was nowhere near as drastic as going from Ultimate to SSJ Goku on Namek.

Gohan talking about Goku giving it everything he had was likely a reference to show just how ruthless and persistent Frieza was as a villain.

Even if Frieza knew his first form was stronger than Buu, he probably felt it was more practical to minimize any chance of losing and just transform.

Why is it weird for Piccolo and Gohan to go up several notches on the power scale, but not weird for them to magically get weaker? It's probably personal preference, but it doesn't seem practical at all that Piccolo would get weaker. Gohan on the other hand probably did, but not as much as some people believe.

[dragon boss z]

I doubt Gohan regressed that much. Especially when you consider the fact that he was in his Ultimate form when he fought Beerus. I mean, we've seen Gohan step away from training for much longer periods of time, and the regression was nowhere near as drastic as going from Ultimate to SSJ Goku on Namek.

Gohan got humiliated by Beerus. Beerus beat him easier than Mr. Buu. Mr. Buu is arguably stronger than BoG Gohan. Also if Gohan loses his mystic form he automatically becomes as weak as he was in the Buu saga and he hasn't trained since the Cell saga so he is extremely rusty.

Gohan talking about Goku giving it everything he had was likely a reference to show just how ruthless and persistent Frieza was as a villain.

Think about it this way. If I said "that guy beat a child and it took everything he had. now the child got even stronger I can't win." I would be implying I was close in strength to the original guy and child. If I was league ahead of the guy and the child saying the child got stronger isn't saying much. So why would Gohan even bring up Frieza being hard for Goku to beat and now he is stronger if they weren't close? Another example would be if I said "that mouse is even bigger than last time, I can't win" I must of been close to the mouses original size or that wouldn't make sense. A human is so much bigger than a mouse saying a mouse got bigger doesn't mean anything. Just like if Gohan was so much stronger than Frieza saying Frieza got stronger wouldn't mean anything either.
Now I'm not saying Gohan is actually Namek Gohan level, just comparable. Maybe he was 5x stronger, but not a huge gap or anything.

Even if Frieza knew his first form was stronger than Buu, he probably felt it was more practical to minimize any chance of losing and just transform.

Frieza had no idea how strong Buu was. All he knew was he wasn't supposed to challenge him. Buu was left out for a reason. He would be too much of a problem for Frieza and would take away the tension or make Frieza transform right away and mess up the story. Same reason Gotenks defused right away.

Why is it weird for Piccolo and Gohan to go up several notches on the power scale, but not weird for them to magically get weaker? It's probably personal preference, but it doesn't seem practical at all that Piccolo would get weaker. Gohan on the other hand probably did, but not as much as some people believe.

It's not weird for Piccolo and Gohan to go up several notches, bust when they are having a hard time with a Frieza soldier that was Zarbon level a few months ago it means they probably got weaker. If you don't use it you lose it. Even if Piccolo kept training, if he didn't train with the same intensity as he used to he could get weaker. Same in real life. If a pro bodybuilder all of a sudden started training like a regular person they would actually get smaller even though they kept on training everyday. And seeing how Piccolo was beign a baby sitter at the begging of the arc plus getting trashed by Tagoma, I would say he got weaker. I don't like it either, if I was writting Super Tagoma would of fought Krillin or something, I wouldn't have Piccolo ever have trouble with a Frieza soldier.

[mcdjbeatz]

After Goku fought Beerus he didn't think that fusion would be enough to stand a chance against him, we don't know which fusion he was talking about but we can assume he was talking about Vegito due to Gogeta not appearing in the manga, so Suppressed Beerus > SSJ Vegito. Goku after achieved Super Saiyan God was confident enough in his new found power to starting fighting Beerus and forced Beerus to use more of his power as the fight progressed which implies SSJG Goku > Suppressed Beerus > SSJ Vegito. Goku in ROF explains that Super Saiyan Blue is a saiyan with the power of super saiyan god going super saiyan which means Goku has the power of super saiyan god in base, SSJG Goku = ROF Goku with God Power > Suppressed Beerus > SSJ Vegito, Final Form Frieza was slightly weaker than ROF Base Goku which means he still should be stronger than Suppressed Beerus as I believe the difference between SSJG Goku and Suppressed Beerus and Suppressed Beerus and SSJ Vegito is about 1.5x each way as you don't need to even 2x stronger to dominate your opponent. I personally use 1.5x difference in power to dominate your opponent just to safe even though there have been instances with smaller differences in power leading to domination e.g Vegeta vs Dodoria.
SSJG Goku = ROF Goku with God Power > Final Form Frieza (ROF) > Suppressed Beerus > SSJ Vegito.
The difference between First Form and Final Form (Not 100%) Frieza is about 158.5x which places First Form Frieza around Base Vegito Level who I place between Buutenks and Buuhan Level.
In short
First Form Frieza = Buutenks - Buuhan Level
Final Form Frieza = Slightly weaker than SSJG Level

[ssbgoku]

Yeah great topic and I have wondered about it since I have watched ressurection of frieeza arc in dragon ball super anime. I mean when it came and I watched it first time I was convinced to put frieeza much higher as gohan was supposed to be only a bit rusty and still close to his buu arc ultimate gohan level, however after it changed in show and very likely silent retcons with sbg not being thing or being hindered in opposite how they were shown and decipited as powerfull earlier. I believe:

First Form Frieeza ~ good buu
Second Form Frieeza - ssj gotenks
Third Form Frieeza - ssj2 gotenks
Fourth Form Frieeza ~ Ultimate gohan buu arc.

I base it on Frieeza reffering to suprassing goku who beat down majin buu who frieeza was told to stay away. I disagree also with member above as it seems writers or Toryiama changed their mind from last time, or what they initialy planned for the show