ssj 4 multiplier

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ssj 4 multiplier

Post by p-hyvo » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:56 pm

how high should be the ssj 4 multiplier? i've done some calculations, and for me is x10'000 base ... could it be?

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by Dragonballgod19 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:08 pm

p-hyvo wrote:how high should be the ssj 4 multiplier? i've done some calculations, and for me is x10'000 base ... could it be?
I always thought I was 10 times stronger than ssj3

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by Daimo-Rukiri » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:34 pm

Super Saiyan - 50x base
Super Saiyan 2 - 100x base
Super Saiyan 3 - 400x base
Suepr Saiyan 4 - shuld be 800x base.
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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by Kaboom » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:55 pm

Super Saiyan 4 doesn't have any sort of official "multiplier" the way Super Saiyan 1 through 3 do. Anything you see, even the popular "SS3 x10" approach, is purely fan-made. As far as GT itself goes, there's a few bits from both the show and its Perfect Files guidebooks that indicate SS4 might be a sort of instant dormant power unlock.

Given that dormant power or potential is something that's different for everyone, and the Super Saiyan 4 form also has a newly mutated, half-Oozaru body with different limits all its own, that's going to result in something wildly unpredictable. So until something changes, we've got no way to nail down how much power Super Saiyan 4 grants other than that it's a whole helluva lot.
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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by Daimo-Rukiri » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:08 pm

I was just following the x2 multiplier between stages, so it should be 800x base if it was cannon but yea there's no way to know for sure.
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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by theherodjl » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:43 pm

I've had a cockamamie theory regarding a SSJ4 multiplier.
Instead of SSJ3 being a x4 increase over SSJ2, I've had it x2 increase just due to the fact that its another form similar to SSJ2 that follows the "level above SSJ" trope. So when SSJ3 Goku fought Super Baby Vegeta he was at a x200 degree from his base, however the multiplier for golden Oozaru equates to x10 base and then x50 from there which adds up to 500x base which is 2.5x stronger than SSJ3. Such an increase should definitely make Goku more powerful than Super Baby Vegeta given that golden Oozaru overwhelmed the villain with raw brute strength.
Next, converting back to normal size condensed the power of golden Oozaru to multiply the power by another x10 to make a x5000 multiplier for SSJ4. It makes sense when you consider Oozaru Baby Vegeta being x10 Super Baby Vegeta, because x10 SSJ3 Goku would mathematically prove that Goku could not challenge Oozaru Baby Vegeta due to Super Baby Vegeta already being stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
So my multipliers have it like this.
Goku(base): 10
SSJ3 Goku: 2,000
Super Baby Vegeta: 4,000
Golden Oozaru Goku: 5,000
SSJ4 Goku: 50,000
Oozaru Baby Vegeta: 40,000

While it is headcanon, this formula can work to explain Goku's power at the very least.
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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:50 am

theherodjl wrote:I've had a cockamamie theory regarding a SSJ4 multiplier.
Instead of SSJ3 being a x4 increase over SSJ2, I've had it x2 increase just due to the fact that its another form similar to SSJ2 that follows the "level above SSJ" trope. So when SSJ3 Goku fought Super Baby Vegeta he was at a x200 degree from his base, however the multiplier for golden Oozaru equates to x10 base and then x50 from there which adds up to 500x base which is 2.5x stronger than SSJ3. Such an increase should definitely make Goku more powerful than Super Baby Vegeta given that golden Oozaru overwhelmed the villain with raw brute strength.
Next, converting back to normal size condensed the power of golden Oozaru to multiply the power by another x10 to make a x5000 multiplier for SSJ4. It makes sense when you consider Oozaru Baby Vegeta being x10 Super Baby Vegeta, because x10 SSJ3 Goku would mathematically prove that Goku could not challenge Oozaru Baby Vegeta due to Super Baby Vegeta already being stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
So my multipliers have it like this.
Goku(base): 10
SSJ3 Goku: 2,000
Super Baby Vegeta: 4,000
Golden Oozaru Goku: 5,000
SSJ4 Goku: 50,000
Oozaru Baby Vegeta: 40,000

While it is headcanon, this formula can work to explain Goku's power at the very least.


Yes, my theory is similar to yours...
Let's say that ssj 3 goku is 400
First form baby vegeta is 625
Final baby vegeta is 968,75
Injured base goku is 0,5
Injured great ape goku is 5

Then, from that state, for me great ape goku goes ssj 2, so it becomes 500

And now, I add an extra x10 to let the body assume an human form instead the great ape one, so ssj 4 goku is 5000

Then he gets cured by gohan and the others, becoming a 10'000 vs great ape baby vegeta that's is a 9687,5

Is my way of thinking correct?

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by Chickenchaser » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:33 pm

p-hyvo wrote:how high should be the ssj 4 multiplier? i've done some calculations, and for me is x10'000 base ... could it be?
Super Saiyan 4 don't have official multiplier its 400+ i use 4,000x

Official Multipliers;

Super Saiyan: 50 times Base

Super Saiyan 2: 100 times Base

Super Saiyan 3: 400 Times Base

---

Super Saiyan 4: 400+ times Base

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:52 am

p-hyvo wrote:how high should be the ssj 4 multiplier? i've done some calculations, and for me is x10'000 base ... could it be?
1) It might be a dozen or more times stronger than Super Saiyan 3.

2) Super Saiyan 4 would give Goku, Trunks, and Goten from the Great Saiyaman Saga superiority over Super Saiyan 3 Majin Vegeta, Final Form Frieza (Dragon Ball Zetto: The Real 4-D), Xeno Cell (Perfect Form), and the normal state of Super Buu.

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by DB▪Magnum-Expert » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:24 pm

It is implied to be once around or above 10,000x Ssj3 Goku, and once implied to be 10x Ssj3.

Oozaru Baby > Super Saiyan 4 Goku:

5: Oozaru Baby
Super Baby transformed into this form after being bathed with 1,000 times the normal amount of Bruits Waves!! As the strongest of warriors, who blends together Tsufru science and Saiya power, his power surpasses even Super Goku 4!! Looking at his golden fur, it seems this ought to be considered a warrior evolved from Super Saiyan!!
[ ] Even after becoming an Oozaru, his costume and hair-style are still the same as his Strongest Form 2!!


Yet the power difference isn't shown to be astronomical. Ssj4 Goku in the baby arc is near his power.

Great Ape multiplier is 10x Base (Or the form you add Oozaru on. In the saiyan saga, it was always on base forms):

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/guides/battle ... jpg?3623c5

________
Forgot to place this

Oozaru Transformation [Giant Monkey Transformation]
First Appearance: Chapter 21
Category: ability
People: Son Goku, Son Gohan, Vegeta
Special Characteristics: The unique ability of the fighting race Saiya-jin. By basking in the light of the full moon, they transform into giant monkeys. During this time, their battle power raises to ten times what it is as a human. When they absorb through their eyes special light rays called Bruits Waves, which are only generated when sunlight is reflected by the moon, their tails react and they transform. However, this only happens when the Bruits Waves exceed 17 million zeno, and the only Bruits Waves that exceed that measurement are during the full moon. Consequently, Saiya-jin can only become Oozaru during the full moon. (Daizenshuu 2, p.49/Daizenshuu 4, p.43)
Anime: In “Sleeping Princess in Devil Castle”, Goku sees the full moon and transforms (Daizenshuu 6, p. 24). In the movies, Gohan transforms into an Oozaru through Turles’ Power Ball (Daizenshuu 6, p. 6). In the TV series, during his training with Piccolo, Gohan saw a fake full moon projected by a Saiya-jin space pod and transformed.

________

so that's 10,000x increase. Note that Final Form Baby was fodder trash against Ssj4 Goku, yet despite Oozaru Baby is stronger than Ssj4 Goku, the difference in power was nowhere to be that much far, in fact it was shown to be "Normal" in terms of increase.

However it is implied in the Dragon Ball GT DVD Box to be 10x Ssj3, in which it states that he has power as strong as Golden Oozaru in Ssj4, which is hinted by his kamehameha x10:

http://pm1.narvii.com/6528/834013eaa1f6 ... 5ee_hq.jpg

However it was implied you get a boost in power when transforming to Ssj4, hence leaving the one with GT perfect files more reliable.

Other than those, there isn't any source to go by.
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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:41 am

I run with 50x ssj3.

Golden ape starts at 10x ssj and ends up 10x ssj3 when its finshed. Then going ssj4 is a 5x increase.

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by Gog » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:56 am

All we truly know is that SSJ4 unlocks the bearers body too the utmost limits of his power. So, basically the increase in strength would vary widely with the user in question. So, essentially there really is no hard, static multiplier of SSJ4 in the first place. Also, technically even then the boost in power would also widely vary with how strong the user is too. So, the forms increase could be a double increase power or a billion times increase in power.

However, there is one fact we know for certain in regards to the form. The boost in power granted is technically lower than the Potential Unlock used by the Elder Kai, which he preformed on Son Gohan, which grants powers way, way, way beyond your limits.

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:09 am

Gog wrote:All we truly know is that SSJ4 unlocks the bearers body too the utmost limits of his power. So, basically the increase in strength would vary widely with the user in question. So, essentially there really is no hard, static multiplier of SSJ4 in the first place. Also, technically even then the boost in power would also widely vary with how strong the user is too. So, the forms increase could be a double increase power or a billion times increase in power.

However, there is one fact we know for certain in regards to the form. The boost in power granted is technically lower than the Potential Unlock used by the Elder Kai, which he preformed on Son Gohan, which grants powers way, way, way beyond your limits.
While I no longer have any memory of myself agreeing with what is said above, Ultimate Gohan only really lost to Buutenks out of being an absolutely colossal moron, as the closest living definition of wasting one's own potential really should have known better than to just stand there and to just let Super Buu absorb his loved ones, and honestly, why would Son Gohan believe once he had defeated Super Perfect Cell, the Earth would be forever at peace? Does he not remember the many horrors he faced in the months shortly after his father defeated Frieza on Namek? He should have at least convinced his mother to let him train with Piccolo for a few hours everyday in case the Earth would have been put in danger in the future once again.
However, Gohan decided it would have been a much better choice to completely neglect his training when it was truly needed than to get and then stay strong enough to prevent such tragedies to had ever happen. Now back to Gog's comparison of Potential Unleashed and Super Saiyan 4, Elder Kai's method of drawing out dormant power gave Gohan enough of a boost to possibly beat Super Buu, but in regards to his true hidden power, if the Elder Kai had instead taught Gohan to use Super Saiyan 4, Super Buu would be in a pickle. As even if he does manage to defeat the son of Goku as Buutenks, once Gohan would have been healed by Dende, the Super Saiyan 4 would have beaten the Pink Demon after his Zenkai allowed him in closing the initial gap between himself and Buutenks.

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by TheMikado » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:12 am

So here is what I have.

SSJ4 is the combination of both SSJ which is a 50x multiplier (SSJ1) and the Oozaru form (10x multiplier)'

This gives us a base level of x500 over base. Thus stronger than SSJ3.
Further we know there is SSJ4 "Full Power"
If these stages correlate to the SSJ levels then there should reasonable be the following

Base SSJ4 SSJ1x50 x Oozarux10 = x500 base
SSJ2 SSJ4 SSJ2x100 x Oozarux10 = x1000 base
SSJ3 SSJ4 SSJ3x400 x Oozarux10 = x4000 base

This does not mean he would experience physical changes as he ascends in SSJ4 form. Rather only his power substantially grows as he gets acclimated to the form and pushes it further.
There are probably realistically no limits, but the above would make sense as to why Goku can use the same form through 3 different arcs and grow stronger. As SSJ4 he surpassed the need to transform as this is the ultimate saiyan transformation.

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:19 pm

10x SSJ3 doesn't work. Baby was destroying ssj3 Goku and when Goku went ssj4 and Baby got a 10x increase they were about the same power wise.

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by TheMikado » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:39 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote:10x SSJ3 doesn't work. Baby was destroying ssj3 Goku and when Goku went ssj4 and Baby got a 10x increase they were about the same power wise.
No the x10 only applies to Vegetas power alone. Baby's power is additive to Vegetas not multiplied from what I read.

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by miguelnuva1 » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:48 pm

TheMikado wrote:
miguelnuva1 wrote:10x SSJ3 doesn't work. Baby was destroying ssj3 Goku and when Goku went ssj4 and Baby got a 10x increase they were about the same power wise.
No the x10 only applies to Vegetas power alone. Baby's power is additive to Vegetas not multiplied from what I read.
If that was true it would be a worst stomp for Bebi. Vegeta needed SSJ to deal with SSJ Bebi Gohan, Goku took on Gohan and Goten in base.

The easiest way to power scale is simply have ssj4 more than 10x ssj3.

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by Desassina » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:29 am

I think that 6'400 is a good threshold for the limits of SSJ3 and the beginning of SSJ4, provided that the latter isn't in the same line of transformation, but definitely stronger that the former. With that being said, if a Super Oozaru is 500, then Super Baby ought to be the same - it is above a regular SSJ3 - because when it's multiplied by 10, he's still below SSJ4 Goku. In fact, I think that I will adopt the 6'400 figure for even SSJ God in Battle of Gods.

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by Gog » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:18 am

Steven Bloodriver wrote:Now back to Gog's comparison of Potential Unleashed and Super Saiyan 4, Elder Kai's method of drawing out dormant power gave Gohan enough of a boost to possibly beat Super Buu, but in regards to his true hidden power, if the Elder Kai had instead taught Gohan to use Super Saiyan 4, Super Buu would be in a pickle. As even if he does manage to defeat the son of Goku as Buutenks, once Gohan would have been healed by Dende, the Super Saiyan 4 would have beaten the Pink Demon after his Zenkai allowed him in closing the initial gap between himself and Buutenks.
But, if Gohan had learned SSJ4 instead of Elder Kai's Potential Unlock than we would have no idea on how powerful he would have ended up. For all we know he would have been way, way, way weaker than Boo himself... Also, Zenkai's stopped being a thing a long time ago in Dragon Ball at that point in time, and I do doubt that Gohan would have ever gained one. If he did gain one it would be minuscule to literally nonexistent.

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Re: ssj 4 multiplier

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:45 am

Gog wrote:
Steven Bloodriver wrote:Now back to Gog's comparison of Potential Unleashed and Super Saiyan 4, Elder Kai's method of drawing out dormant power gave Gohan enough of a boost to possibly beat Super Buu, but in regards to his true hidden power, if the Elder Kai had instead taught Gohan to use Super Saiyan 4, Super Buu would be in a pickle. As even if he does manage to defeat the son of Goku as Buutenks, once Gohan would have been healed by Dende, the Super Saiyan 4 would have beaten the Pink Demon after his Zenkai allowed him in closing the initial gap between himself and Buutenks.
But, if Gohan had learned SSJ4 instead of Elder Kai's Potential Unlock than we would have no idea on how powerful he would have ended up. For all we know he would have been way, way, way weaker than Boo himself... Also, Zenkai's stopped being a thing a long time ago in Dragon Ball at that point in time, and I do doubt that Gohan would have ever gained one. If he did gain one it would be minuscule to literally nonexistent.
If the son of Goku had transformed into an Ultimate Super Saiyan during the Majin Buu Saga, then Ultimate Son Gohan and Super Saiyan 4 Son Gohan would have been either comparable in power, as both forms are more than enough to surpass Super Saiyan 3 and Super Buu by leagues, or Super Saiyan 4 would be much stronger, as perhaps the Saiyan with the most hidden potential before having been given knowledge of his ultimate power, had gotten most of his old strength back from training with the Z Sword. Enabling Gohan in being close enough to his father's strength in Base, Mastered Super Saiyan, and Super Saiyan 2 to be given power beyond his Mystic Saiyan form with just Golden Great Ape. With Super Saiyan 4 giving an Adult Son Gohan enough power to rival the likes of even Vegito.

And for those who are skeptical, please remember Gohan has to get to Golden Great Ape, a form proven to be stronger than Super Saiyan 3, before getting to Super Saiyan 4, a form even stronger than Golden Great Ape. Which would make Gohan stronger than he would have been after getting his Potential Unleashed by Old Kai, especially since Super Saiyan 4 Gohan would have been able to wipe out any form of Majin Buu in an instant if he wanted to, or even accidentally, as he would have a bit of trouble controlling his new power.

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