Kid Buu fight... Why so complicated?

[Kishido]

After they wished back everyone back to life why not simply wishing Gohan and/or Gotenks to the damn Kai planet...

They would have wiped the floor with Kid Buu without the need of the Genkidama drama

Or KibitoKai would use his teleportation to bring them ASAP

[dragon boss z]

Vegeta thought that might of been Goku's wish. Maybe Goku was afraid of someone getting absorbed. I definitely wouldn't trust Gotenks.

Also there is the theory that ssj3 Goku is actually stronger than them.

[LowRyder2005]

The manga - through Vegeta - states the existence of a slightly more poetic reason, the humans finally taking responsibility for the well-being of their planet for once.

If you follow the notion - like most do - that they are indeed far above Kid Buu, I feel like there's however a fairly decent chance of pragmatism playing a part in this: alas, Vegeta fearing that the two would end up getting absorbed again.
Referring to less rational possibilities, then Vegeta might have also merely not trusted Gohan or Gotenks after they had failed to beat Super Buu. Something related more to their mindset and them not being responsible adults, and not necessarily sheer power. It could also be Vegeta wanting himself and Kakarot to finish the job out of principle, and without resorting to external forces or help. Basically, an equivalent of the "we won't use Fusion" rationale (in that case, though, wouldn't the Genki Dama qualify as external help?).

A lot of people (online debaters especially) tend to ignore this, but if you factor in the impossibility of using the Vegito trump-card at that point, using a Genki Dama might have actually been the safest option.

- If the Genki Dama failed, Kid Buu killed/absorbed Goku or Vegeta, than Gohan and Gotenks still had a chance to save the day.
- If Kid Buu absorbed Gohan or Gotenks, no one could have stopped him again, maybe not even a Genki Dama.

Theoretically, it therefore made more sense to try the Genki Dama first. The manga does, on the other hand, push the outcome as a "do or die" type or situation for strictly narrative reasons.

[dragonball0900]

Also there is the theory that ssj3 Goku is actually stronger than them.

Not really. Gotenks and Gohan are way stronger than Goku since that's stated in the manga.

[dragon boss z]

Also there is the theory that ssj3 Goku is actually stronger than them.

Not really. Gotenks and Gohan are way stronger than Goku since that's stated in the manga.

I agree they are stronger, but not way stronger, and no, it is never actually confirmed they are stronger, it is just implied since Goku said he couldn't beat Super Buu.

[dragonball0900]

Also there is the theory that ssj3 Goku is actually stronger than them.

Not really. Gotenks and Gohan are way stronger than Goku since that's stated in the manga.

I agree they are stronger, but not way stronger, and no, it is never actually confirmed they are stronger, it is just implied since Goku said he couldn't beat Super Buu.

The fact that Goku said he wouldn't be able to defeat Super Buu, and even with Vegeta's help, the fact that he was terribly scared of fighting him if they didn't fuse actually implies Super Buu is way stronger than him. If Super Buu was just a bit stronger than Goku, then Goku wouldn't be that scared like the way he did. He would've at least try to fight him.

Also using the SSJ multipliers, Gotenks would end up getting like twice stronger than Goku, even like 3 times stronger or more if we assume that SSJ Gotenks already surpassed Fat Buu.

Goku also claims to be inferior against Gotenks, as well as Gohan, throughout parts of the manga.

[Darkprince410]

Goku brought that up after learning that Vegeta wanted to restore the Earth, thinking that's what his plan was. Vegeta, though, seemingly was annoyed by the idea of Goku and the others always saving the people of the Earth without them knowing about it, and felt that it was time they saved the Earth for once.

[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

That's it. Vegeta very likely knew that Gohan and Gotenks would provide a far safer and faster kill, but he wanted the people of the Earth to contribute to their defense for once.

[dragonball0900]

I agree with the above post. That's what I think the reason was why Gotenks and Gohan weren't called in. The Earth's people had to do something for once.

[Kishido]

Goku brought that up after learning that Vegeta wanted to restore the Earth, thinking that's what his plan was. Vegeta, though, seemingly was annoyed by the idea of Goku and the others always saving the people of the Earth without them knowing about it, and felt that it was time they saved the Earth for once.

[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

That's it. Vegeta very likely knew that Gohan and Gotenks would provide a far safer and faster kill, but he wanted the people of the Earth to contribute to their defense for once.

Damn I need to reread Z from the scratch. Thanks for it and close this thread

[dragon boss z]

The fact that Goku said he wouldn't be able to defeat Super Buu, and even with Vegeta's help, the fact that he was terribly scared of fighting him if they didn't fuse actually implies Super Buu is way stronger than him. If Super Buu was just a bit stronger than Goku, then Goku wouldn't be that scared like the way he did. He would've at least try to fight him.

Also using the SSJ multipliers, Gotenks would end up getting like twice stronger than Goku, even like 3 times stronger or more if we assume that SSJ Gotenks already surpassed Fat Buu.

Goku also claims to be inferior against Gotenks, as well as Gohan, throughout parts of the manga.

Goku wasn't scared, he just acknowledged Super Buu was stronger and would kill them. Vegeta is vertoully useless, if serious Super Buu could one shot him, or worse, absorb him. And Goku could put up a good fight, but Buu's regen and Goku's stamina drain would lead to him being killed as well. Also lets not forget Kid Buu would of killed both Goku and Vegeta as well if it wasn't for the spirit bomb and a wish to give Goku his power back. So Kid Buu can be considered around base Super Buu, maybe a bit weaker.

And ssj Gotenks may of been around Fat Buu level, but so was majin Vegeta, so at best I would say ssj3 Gotenks is 2x ssj3 Goku, but I don't think it was quite that much. And Goku concistently lied about his power throughout the buu saga so I wouldn't say that is proof, just evidence.

Imo
ssj Gotenks<=>Fat Buu<<ssj3 Goku<=>kid Buu<=Super Buu<=>ssj3 Gotenks<mystic Gohan

[GodKaio-Ken]

Somple answer....Gohan is a screw up and Gotenks is a child.

Gohan already: Got Goku killed in the Cell arc, dropped the Potara and got absorbed. Why give him another chance to doom humanity?

[Lord Beerus]

Somple answer....Gohan is a screw up and Gotenks is a child.

Gohan already: Got Goku killed in the Cell arc, dropped the Potara and got absorbed. Why give him another chance to doom humanity?

To be fair, Goku threw the potara earing before Gohan had enough to react to catch it and Goku's throw wasn't exactly the best.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Gotenks though? Yeah, he's a total liability. Fuck around way too much.

[supercat]

Well anime-wise, it was pretty clear to me that Kid Buu was the strongest Buu, although the statements that indicated this may not have been factoring Buuhan and Buutenks into the equation.

I honestly can't adhere to Super Buu > Kid Buu. Especially in the anime. We not only have at least 2 statements explicitly stating that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu, but Super Buu got wrecked by SSJ Goku and Vegeta when he was fighting them inside himself.

But regardless of all that, I have SSJ3 Goku, Ultimate Gohan, and SSJ3 Gotenks all relatively close to each other.

Ultimate Gohan > SSJ3 Goku > / = SSJ3 Gotenks

or even

Ultimate Gohan > / = SSJ3 Goku > SSJ3 Gotenks

But again, with all those statements boosting up Kid Buu, and the lack of hype surrounding Gohan in the anime, it's hard to put him that far above SSJ3 Goku, if at all.

I get why some people place Super Buu above Kid Buu, but I honestly don't see it that way. And quite frankly, I'm not interested in partaking in another which Buu is the strongest debate.

[MR.Mark]

Real reason: Toriyama created Kid Buu as a way to power him down enough for Goku to be somewhat of a match. Since passing the torch to Gohan and the boys idea didn't work for him.
Story reason: Goku and Vegeta take a risk to fight Buu due to pride...then rely on the earth because...it was time to pass the torch to weaklings?

The Buu arc is a mess.

[wolflonnie]

I don't know why people are so firm to believe that a simple gag, such as base & SSJ Gotenks vs Super Buu, has to be taken seriously.
I don't really think that there is THIS distance between Goku SSJ3 and Ultimate Gohan/SSJ3 Gotenks, otherwise how in the world would Goku & Vegeta close the gap with them, at the beginning of DBS? Not to mention, the Genkidama would have annihilated Kid Buu with just Gohan's energy.
Yes SSJ3 Gotenks and Gohan are NO DOUBTS more powerful than Goku SSJ3, but not 1000x times like people claim. Maybe 1.5 to 2x AT BEST. It's simply absurd and not the author's intent to represent such thing.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Somple answer....Gohan is a screw up and Gotenks is a child.

Gohan already: Got Goku killed in the Cell arc, dropped the Potara and got absorbed. Why give him another chance to doom humanity?

To be fair, Goku threw the potara earing before Gohan had enough to react to catch it and Goku's throw wasn't exactly the best.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Gotenks though? Yeah, he's a total liability. Fuck around way too much.

Fair enough. Honestly I'm still working on the manga and was thinking of the anime which makes it look more like its on Gohan.

Yes I agree on Gotenks too. I love Goten but those kids need to be more serious.

[Darkprince410]

I don't know why people are so firm to believe that a simple gag, such as base & SSJ Gotenks vs Super Buu, has to be taken seriously.
I don't really think that there is THIS distance between Goku SSJ3 and Ultimate Gohan/SSJ3 Gotenks, otherwise how in the world would Goku & Vegeta close the gap with them, at the beginning of DBS? Not to mention, the Genkidama would have annihilated Kid Buu with just Gohan's energy.
Yes SSJ3 Gotenks and Gohan are NO DOUBTS more powerful than Goku SSJ3, but not 1000x times like people claim. Maybe 1.5 to 2x AT BEST. It's simply absurd and not the author's intent to represent such thing.

There's no indication that Goku and Vegeta had closed the gap, though having four years of them training whenever they can (and we know that's true) would help that a good deal. Gohan's energy alone, even where he is now in Super, may never have been enough to destroy Pure Buu with the Genki Dama, as it's still just a portion of his total power (genki being just a portion of one's total ki)

[ABED]

Real reason: Toriyama created Kid Buu as a way to power him down enough for Goku to be somewhat of a match. Since passing the torch to Gohan and the boys idea didn't work for him.
Story reason: Goku and Vegeta take a risk to fight Buu due to pride...then rely on the earth because...it was time to pass the torch to weaklings?

The Buu arc is a mess.

That's not a mess, that's who those characters are. Whether those Earthlings are weak doesn't matter. They dont' need to be strong, there just need to be enough of them to add all that power together. It's not about passing the torch.

Buu's strength in each form is hard to figure out and the logic is wonky, but it's a logical inference to think Gohan wouldn't have been enough to defeat Kid Buu. The Genki Dama takes a good portion of his strength along with all the other Z fighters and it's still not enough.

I agree with LowRyder's post. The logic of the fight isn't strong but Vegeta and Goku's willingness to put the universe at risk for a fight is in character.

[MR.Mark]

You want to move the debate into this topic? fair enough.

Goku and Vegeta will take risks if there is a chance for a good fight, but will use strategy if they have no choice. There was no more fight to be had, getting Gohan to help would of made more sense. Help from earth that might work vs help from Goahn that WILL work. The choice was made for drama, not because it was in character.

If Vegeta always wants a good fight at the risk of everything why did he team up with Krillin and Gohan against Freeza?

Why did Goku accept Piccolo's help against Raditz? That's right he was trying to SAVE his son, he even gave his life for his son. He even gave his life for his son twice, and the EARTH for that matter, against Cell.

[ABED]

I dont' know what you mean by there's no more fight to be had. The fight isn't over yet and they always use a strategy.

Help from earth that might work vs help from Goahn that WILL work. The choice was made for drama, not because it was in character.

There's no guarentee that Gohan would've finished him off and as others have pointed out, if the Genki Dama failed, there's still Gohan. Getting Gohan's does make sense if the purpose was to bring the fight to a conclusion as quick as possible.