What's the SS4 multiplier?

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Potara_Vegetto
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What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby Potara_Vegetto » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:15 pm

Is there any official information about it?

Is 10 x 50 (500x base form)?

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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby Kaboom » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:19 pm

Nope, Super Saiyan 4 has not been officially given a single "multiplier" the way Super Saiyan 1 through 3 have. The GT series itself and some of the guidebooks talk about it "bringing a Saiyan's power to its limits" or something similar, so many folks assume the form works as a sort of on-the-spot potential unlock. Which would certainly explain how wildly inconsistent the power granted by the form seems to be in GT.
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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby Potara_Vegetto » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:24 pm

Kaboom wrote:Nope, Super Saiyan 4 has not been officially given a single "multiplier" the way Super Saiyan 1 through 3 have. The GT series itself and some of the guidebooks talk about it "bringing a Saiyan's power to its limits" or something similar, so many folks assume the form works as a sort of on-the-spot potential unlock. Which would certainly explain how wildly inconsistent the power granted by the form seems to be in GT.


Oh, that's make sense, Rou Dai Kaiohshin said that as well.

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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby Duo » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:58 pm

Before the "official multipliers" came out several years ago, it was generally believed among fans that Super Saiyan 4 was a 500-fold increase, so it really put a wrench in things when Super Saiyan 3 started having a 400x increase attached to it. It really wouldn't be all that impressive in that context.
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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby p-hyvo » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:10 am

no boy, only a 500x base is too poor, you only need to use a bit of logic to comprihend that it couldnt be... for me is x32'000. or x80 from ssj 3. now, ill make my headcanon:
lests say that Goku is 1
ssj 3 is 400
baby vegeta is 432
s. baby 1 is 864
s. baby 3 is 3456
oozaru baby is 34'560 then

now, if Goku is 1, oozaru is 10. as oozaru, in my opinion Goku goes ssj 2, so its 1000 in my scale. now, to concentrate the strenght and obtain an adult human's body, theres a massive power up thats makes ssj 4 able to be almost as strong as oozaru baby, so my 32'000 is explained. now, to go fullpower ssj 4 i just add 1/10 of his strenght to normal ssj 4, that makes ssj 4 fullpower Goku a 35'200 in my scale. i hope my theory will be useful for you
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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby PerhapsTheOtherOne » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:19 am

Personally, I have this weird sort of head-canon multiplier I use for SS4.

Okay, so Golden Great Ape only comes about from a combination of SS and the normal Great Ape. So, one would logically think it's the multiplier of both combined, 500 times, right? Sure, but I've always believed that an additional boost comes from the two forms being combined in the first place. Because the Great Ape side has taken control of the form, that's an additional 10 times, for a 5000 times multiplication.

However, once a Saiyan regains control and forces the form into something more akin to SS, the multiplier changes from an additional 10 times boost to a 50 times boost instead to reflect the SS side taking control of the form, thus leading to a 25,000 times multiplication.

To sum up, it goes like this:

Super Saiyan(50) x Great Ape(10) = Latent Full Saiyan Power(500)
||
vv
Latent Full Saiyan Power(500) x Great Ape in Control(10) = Golden Great Ape(5000)
||
vv
Latent Full Saiyan Power(500) x Super Saiyan in Control(50) = Super Saiyan 4(25,000)

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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby Black Hawk » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:37 am

If I remember correctly, the Daizenshuu 7 states the same thing about SSJ3 that the GT Perfect Files state about SSJ4 (bringing a Saiyajin's power out to its limits), and yet the Super Exciting Guide gave SSJ3 a multiplier, so I could see SSJ4 just as easily having one too, especially if Shueisha wanted to give it one.

Given that SSJ1 Baby exceeded SSJ3 Gokū, though not by a particularly massive amount, I'd estimate Baby had to be about 10x stronger than Gokū in the same forms, making SSJ1 Baby around 500x stronger than Gokū. In turn, SSJ2 Baby would be 1000x stronger than Gokū and SSJ3 Baby, based on the GT Perfect Files' speculation that final form Baby was SSJ3, would be 4000x stronger than Gokū. Baby appeared threatened by Super Ōzaru Gokū, so he'd have to have equaled or perhaps slightly exceeded Baby, which would require Gokū to become around 5000x stronger, making it an appropriate multiplier for Super Ōzaru.

However, since Baby also goes Super Ōzaru, we have to apply the 5000x multiplier to him too, and the GT Perfect Files state SSJ4 Gokū and Super Ōzaru Baby to be approximately equals, so, under the assumption that Baby is about 10x stronger than Gokū, we'd then apply a multiplier of 50000x to Super Saiyajin 4. At least, that's how I see it. Feel free to disagree and offer alternatives; that's just my spitball number based on a few assumptions, the Super Exciting Guide, and the GT Perfect Files.
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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby TheDragonBallGuy75 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:47 am

Well, according to ScrewAttack, The SSJ4 multiplier is x10 of SSJ3. Not entirely sure how accurate that math is though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyl97TG8jbA

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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby TheMikado » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:11 am

Potara_Vegetto wrote:Is there any official information about it?

Is 10 x 50 (500x base form)?


Hello, I've written on this subject many times before and come to the same conclusion as you with some twist.

SSJ4 is the amalgamation of two separate forms granting separate multipliers, thus we do as you have done. We stack the multipliers.
Oozaru 10 x by SSJ 50 = x500

The thing we also know about SSJ is that it is NOT a static multiplier and that the x50 multiplier is the minimum.
It has been shown that SSJ2/3 is merely an extension of the existing SSJ transformation. Thus we know the x50 multiplier is fluid and the highest multiplier is x400 for raw SSJ transformation in SSJ3.

We also know that SSJ4 has more tier of power, including a SSJ4 (Full Power) mode where the user gains considerably more strength without changing appearance.

Its possibly that the SSJ4 state, due to invoking the Oozaru transformation does not promote further transformations while still allowing the user to access the higher SSJ multiplier tiers.

Basically, my theory is that x500 would be the MINIMUM multiplier for SSJ4 which would place it above SSJ3. This would also make sense as to Goku's performance when he first transforms against Baby.
He appears to be holding back and it appears that Goku was testing his minimum power which was already somewhat eclipsing Baby.

This is all head canon, but it logically makes a lot of sense given what we has seen and know about the form.

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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby TheMikado » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:15 am

Black Hawk wrote:If I remember correctly, the Daizenshuu 7 states the same thing about SSJ3 that the GT Perfect Files state about SSJ4 (bringing a Saiyajin's power out to its limits), and yet the Super Exciting Guide gave SSJ3 a multiplier, so I could see SSJ4 just as easily having one too, especially if Shueisha wanted to give it one.

Given that SSJ1 Baby exceeded SSJ3 Gokū, though not by a particularly massive amount, I'd estimate Baby had to be about 10x stronger than Gokū in the same forms, making SSJ1 Baby around 500x stronger than Gokū. In turn, SSJ2 Baby would be 1000x stronger than Gokū and SSJ3 Baby, based on the GT Perfect Files' speculation that final form Baby was SSJ3, would be 4000x stronger than Gokū. Baby appeared threatened by Super Ōzaru Gokū, so he'd have to have equaled or perhaps slightly exceeded Baby, which would require Gokū to become around 5000x stronger, making it an appropriate multiplier for Super Ōzaru.

However, since Baby also goes Super Ōzaru, we have to apply the 5000x multiplier to him too, and the GT Perfect Files state SSJ4 Gokū and Super Ōzaru Baby to be approximately equals, so, under the assumption that Baby is about 10x stronger than Gokū, we'd then apply a multiplier of 50000x to Super Saiyajin 4. At least, that's how I see it. Feel free to disagree and offer alternatives; that's just my spitball number based on a few assumptions, the Super Exciting Guide, and the GT Perfect Files.


This isn't actually true. Baby's power seems to be additive, not multiplicative.
Meaning the reason Baby didn't go SSJ4 is because Vegeta was not in control of his body. Thus SSJ multipliers only applied to Vegeta, and Baby's power which he had previously stolen was added to that result.
It explains why Baby didn't get dramatically stronger than Goku as an Oozaru. The multiplier would only be on Vegeta's power and not Baby's total power.

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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby mamoru » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:35 pm

I think it's a 5000x multiplier on top of Base Form. Here, Golden Oozaru is when Goku turned oozaru while being a SSJ. So Oozaru is 10x and SSj is 50x and you multiply them both and you get a 500x multiplier. Baby was on par with Golden Oozaru Goku and then he also turned Golden Oozaru. To lowball, let's just say Baby was already a SSJ and you multiply it by 10. So Baby is at 5000x Base Goku. Since SS4 and Baby were equal, it would make sense for SS4 to be 10x Golden Oozaru.

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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby SonofthePrince » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:16 pm

There's no official multiplier, but I'm thinking it's 200,000x base form

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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby Jackalope89 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:50 pm

TheDragonBallGuy75 wrote:Well, according to ScrewAttack, The SSJ4 multiplier is x10 of SSJ3. Not entirely sure how accurate that math is though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyl97TG8jbA

06:18 onwards

I don't trust ScrewAttack in almost anything in regards to Dragon Ball.

As for SSJ4, wasn't it supposed to be a limit breaker of sorts? That's my head canon for it at least.

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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby Cetra » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:55 am

TheDragonBallGuy75 wrote:Well, according to ScrewAttack, The SSJ4 multiplier is x10 of SSJ3. Not entirely sure how accurate that math is though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyl97TG8jbA

06:18 onwards


Screw Attack is not just pseudo-scientific, it is also not very good at it. Super Saiyajin 4 does not have anything to do with SSJ3, so there is no reason to put those two things together. It is just named SSJ4. It is not the next transformation. There is nothing after the stage of SSJ3. Everything we have seen so far was a new branch of transformation, God, SSJ4, et cetera. They could argue "well, maybe it takes the highest benefit Goku has so far and works with it" and from that they gain the SSJ3 thing but that is also beyond any base. And it would make Vegeta aas a SSJ4 a lot weaker than SSJ4 Goku as he has no SSJ3 (at least not that we know of). So that is also very muddy. They just took what they wanted because they did not care and wanted to let Superman win anyway so they did not actually care.

If anything SSJ4 is more like Ultimate Gohan because it unlocks some hidden potential or beyond that or whatever it was. I don't remember.
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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby sunsetshimmer » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:39 am

SSJ4 was advertised as a form that brings you to the very limit. It is possible that SSJ4 does NOT have a multiplier but fixed power level.
But if it had multiplier, it wouldn't be x500 lol.

Goku SSJ3 (x400) was getting trashed by regular Baby Vegeta.
Baby transformed two times, getting power from Z fighters and entire Earth (the same kind of power killed Kid Buu in past) and he was still getting wrecked by Goku SSJ4.
Baby transformed into Golden Oozaru making himself at least 10 times stronger and he was then about equal to Goku
It means Goku SSJ4 is more than 10 times stronger than SSJ3. It could be x4500-x5000.

Goku SSJ4 ~= Golden Baby = Super Baby 2 X10 > Super Baby 1 X10 > Baby Vegeta X10 > Baby Vegeta > Goku SSJ3
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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby TheMikado » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:09 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:SSJ4 was advertised as a form that brings you to the very limit. It is possible that SSJ4 does NOT have a multiplier but fixed power level.
But if it had multiplier, it wouldn't be x500 lol.

Goku SSJ3 (x400) was getting trashed by regular Baby Vegeta.
Baby transformed two times, getting power from Z fighters and entire Earth (the same kind of power killed Kid Buu in past) and he was still getting wrecked by Goku SSJ4.
Baby transformed into Golden Oozaru making himself at least 10 times stronger and he was then about equal to Goku
It means Goku SSJ4 is more than 10 times stronger than SSJ3. It could be x4500-x5000.

Goku SSJ4 ~= Golden Baby = Super Baby 2 X10 > Super Baby 1 X10 > Baby Vegeta X10 > Baby Vegeta > Goku SSJ3


There are several counters to this.

1) x500 would be the minimum it would grant. Seeing that the SSJ form can be pushed to other tiers it is reasonable that SSJ4 as a multiple of the Oozaru form and base SSJ could be pushed further.
2) The form was pushed further via the use of SSJ4 "full power" Thus we know SSJ4 has the capacity for power increases without transformations.
3) Baby's power is shown to be additive, not multiplicative. At least it is what it shows from the power levels. Further we know it is not a true "fusion" but merely a possession as evident by the Golden Ozaru form.
Essentially baby's multiplier would have only been on Vegeta's body and not babys power ( which was said to be around Majin buu level independently from absorbing power from previous hosts).

Example: Vegeta SSJ2 x 100 + Baby x400 = x500
Goku SSJ2 x 100
Goku SSJ3 x 400
Goku SSJ4 x 500 (minimum initial transformation) vs SSJ2 Baby Vegeta x500 maximum
Vegeta Golden Ozaru x 500
Vegeta Golden Ozaru x 500 + Baby x400 = x900
Goku SSJ2 x Golden Ozaru = 100 x 10 = x1000 (Full power SSJ4)

Basically in this example if Goku were harnessing the power of a SSJ2 will using the SSJ4x10 multiplier in his full power state it could easily make it x1000, which baby only controlling the shell of Vegeta would only able to access the minimum Oozaru multiplier of x500 and add it to his own power which would still be below a theoretical SSJ4 full power.

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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby ekrolo2 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:34 am

SS Baby Vegeta is stronger then SS3 Goku and then proceeds to get his own version of 2, 3 and Golden Oozaru. Using the SEG multipliers alone this makes 4 hundreds of times above an SS3, add that Golden Oozaru Goku being considered a threat to Strongest Form 2 Baby and I'd say SS4 is probably around x40-50,000 Base.
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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby TheShadowEmperor8055 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:46 am

I dunno, I'd just say 10x stronger than his Super Saiyan form because of the whole "10X Kamehameha" thing.

I mean, it works too. 10x stronger than SS is more powerful than SS3 (which is 8x more powerful than SS). Which makes for 500x stronger than his normal state, yes. And SS4 potentially being the Golden Great Ape transformation under control, and the latter being potentially 50x stronger than just regular Great Ape, which is 10x stronger than the normal state, which makes Golden Great Ape 500x stronger than the normal state? Works too. But that's all meaningless headcanon on my account.

There's nothing official, unfortunately.
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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby sunsetshimmer » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:40 am

TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:I dunno, I'd just say 10x stronger than his Super Saiyan form because of the whole "10X Kamehameha" thing.

I mean, it works too. 10x stronger than SS is more powerful than SS3 (which is 8x more powerful than SS). Which makes for 500x stronger than his normal state, yes. And SS4 potentially being the Golden Great Ape transformation under control, and the latter being potentially 50x stronger than just regular Great Ape, which is 10x stronger than the normal state, which makes Golden Great Ape 500x stronger than the normal state? Works too. But that's all meaningless headcanon on my account.

There's nothing official, unfortunately.


Makes no sense. Super Baby 2 had to become at least 10 times stronger after he turned into Golden Oozaru (since he already was SSJ) and he was about equal to Goku SSJ4 then.
Regular Baby Vegeta was stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
It means Goku had to become more than 10 times stronger than SSJ3 to be able to hurt Baby as Golden Oozaru.
SSJ4 is at least x4000 then, probably more.
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Re: What's the SS4 multiplier?

Postby sintzu » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:16 am

TheDragonBallGuy75 wrote:Well, according to ScrewAttack, The SSJ4 multiplier is x10 of SSJ3. Not entirely sure how accurate that math is though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyl97TG8jbA

06:18 onwards


I saw a video of someone debunking multiple points they made so I wouldn't use them as a source.

The only thing we know about Ssj4 officially is that it brings out a Saiyan's full potential which at this point doesn't mean much cause it didn't take into account the levels Goku and Vegeta are currently at.
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