Saiyan Beyond God

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Saiyan Beyond God

Post by mamoru » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:00 am

Okay, so I know this "Saiyan Beyond God" name isn't official and it was just used in DBH. Okay, so I have a few questions in mind about this. So we all know that Goku absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God into his base form right? Then with training with Whis, and not letting his ki leak out, his base is now Saiyan Beyond God. It's not a transformation but just his base form. What I'm trying to say is, if Goku already absorbed God's power into his base form, why would he turn SSG again? wouldn't it be the same strength as his base form since Saiyan Beyond God is basically accessing the powers of SSG in his base form? Or maybe Saiyan Beyond God doesn't have the unique abilities of SSG such as nullifying attacks and healing powers?

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by Grimlock » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:19 am

It's because it was used in Dragon Ball Heroes that makes the name official. It's not a random name made up by fans.

Also, Goku absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God, that's it. This whole "absorbed into base form" doesn't exist, he just absorbed it. But I agree with the rest, since he can access the power of Super Saiyan God in base form, that makes Super Saiyan God kind of useless. Maybe Goku likes to show off? Akira Toriyama also said that because he had absorbed it, he wouldn't transform into it again, but here we are with his yet another "trolling behavior". :roll:
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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:52 pm

Grimlock wrote:It's because it was used in Dragon Ball Heroes that makes the name official. It's not a random name made up by fans.

Also, Goku absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God, that's it. This whole "absorbed into base form" doesn't exist, he just absorbed it. But I agree with the rest, since he can access the power of Super Saiyan God in base form, that makes Super Saiyan God kind of useless. Maybe Goku likes to show off? Akira Toriyama also said that because he had absorbed it, he wouldn't transform into it again, but here we are with his yet another "trolling behavior". :roll:
Toriyama is constantly changing his mind and Toei has different writers for every episode so the power scaling is all wacky.

From what I've seen so far I would say after the fight with Beerus Goku got a power boost, but not a super huge one. I would say his base form went from somewhere below 100% Frieza to maybe around Cell level. Then Vegeta trained with Whis to catch up. Then they trained together and learned how to keep their ki in. Keeping all their ki in and completely mastering their base form they are above ssj3 Gotenks (as we saw in the potafu arc) and around post training final form Frieza (we will probably see how final form Frieza compares to mystic Gohan next episode). But their bases can still be weaker when not completely holding their ki in which would explain why sometimes they have trouble with opponents who should be weaker than ssj3 Gotenks.

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by mamoru » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:56 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
Grimlock wrote:It's because it was used in Dragon Ball Heroes that makes the name official. It's not a random name made up by fans.

Also, Goku absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God, that's it. This whole "absorbed into base form" doesn't exist, he just absorbed it. But I agree with the rest, since he can access the power of Super Saiyan God in base form, that makes Super Saiyan God kind of useless. Maybe Goku likes to show off? Akira Toriyama also said that because he had absorbed it, he wouldn't transform into it again, but here we are with his yet another "trolling behavior". :roll:
Toriyama is constantly changing his mind and Toei has different writers for every episode so the power scaling is all wacky.

From what I've seen so far I would say after the fight with Beerus Goku got a power boost, but not a super huge one. I would say his base form went from somewhere below 100% Frieza to maybe around Cell level. Then Vegeta trained with Whis to catch up. Then they trained together and learned how to keep their ki in. Keeping all their ki in and completely mastering their base form they are above ssj3 Gotenks (as we saw in the potafu arc) and around post training final form Frieza (we will probably see how final form Frieza compares to mystic Gohan next episode). But their bases can still be weaker when not completely holding their ki in which would explain why sometimes they have trouble with opponents who should be weaker than ssj3 Gotenks.
I don't think it's like that. It's been confirmed by Beerus and Goku that he didn't feel any weaker at all when his SSG's time limit ran out. Even the title of the episode says "Surpass Super Saiyan God". And in the end of the fight Goku was able to punch Beerus's Giant Sphere Ball in his base form. I think Saiyan Beyond God just allows the user to access Super Saiyan God's Power(or some of it) so when he transforms, there's no actual multiplier and he only get's the healing abilities. But maybe it is a multiplier since Whis stated that SSG is faster than normal super saiyan.

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by LowRyder2005 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:28 am

They would have been stronger than SS3 Gotenks, supposedly; recently, it's implied they also can't exactly finger-flick a single opponent Good Buu can curbstomp without going Super Saiyan and Goku transforms into a fully fledged Super Saiyan to handle Super Saiyan Gohan, who doesn't have any godly power and was overall weaker than Ultimate Gohan from the Buu arc (if not weaker than his Buu arc self equivalent at any given level, more probably).

So yeah, the hypothesis it was supposed to be a "transformation" all along that has been forgotten (not used anymore? subtly retired?) like many, many, others, in the fashion Heroes treats it, is a fairly justified one; even though Copy-Vegeta doesn't visibly power up when handling Gotenks.

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by mamoru » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:56 am

LowRyder2005 wrote:They would have been stronger than SS3 Gotenks, supposedly; recently, it's implied they also can't exactly finger-flick a single opponent Good Buu can curbstomp without going Super Saiyan and Goku transforms into a fully fledged Super Saiyan to handle Super Saiyan Gohan, who doesn't have any godly power and was overall weaker than Ultimate Gohan from the Buu arc (if not weaker than his Buu arc self equivalent at any given level, more probably).

So yeah, the hypothesis it was supposed to be a "transformation" all along that has been forgotten (not used anymore? subtly retired?) like many, many, others, in the fashion Heroes treats it, is a fairly justified one; even though Copy-Vegeta doesn't visibly power up when handling Gotenks.
People forget that Goku suppresses himself all the time. He doesn't need to go full power. Look at the battle with Future Trunks, Goku turned SSJ3 against Trunks and Trunks still says that Black is stronger than him. But then when Black comes, Goku was able to demolish him with just his SSJ2 form. He just suppresses himself a lot. Maybe you could say he suppresses himself to the power he used to have, which was his normal base form. But then there's a reason that also debunks this. Why would he turn SSJ if he can just increase his power in his base form? So... I don't know, perhaps SBG IS a transformation after all.

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by LowRyder2005 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:09 am

mamoru wrote:
LowRyder2005 wrote:They would have been stronger than SS3 Gotenks, supposedly; recently, it's implied they also can't exactly finger-flick a single opponent Good Buu can curbstomp without going Super Saiyan and Goku transforms into a fully fledged Super Saiyan to handle Super Saiyan Gohan, who doesn't have any godly power and was overall weaker than Ultimate Gohan from the Buu arc (if not weaker than his Buu arc self equivalent at any given level, more probably).

So yeah, the hypothesis it was supposed to be a "transformation" all along that has been forgotten (not used anymore? subtly retired?) like many, many, others, in the fashion Heroes treats it, is a fairly justified one; even though Copy-Vegeta doesn't visibly power up when handling Gotenks.
People forget that Goku suppresses himself all the time. He doesn't need to go full power. Look at the battle with Future Trunks, Goku turned SSJ3 against Trunks and Trunks still says that Black is stronger than him. But then when Black comes, Goku was able to demolish him with just his SSJ2 form. He just suppresses himself a lot. Maybe you could say he suppresses himself to the power he used to have, which was his normal base form.
No, I'm not forgetting Goku's tendency to suppress himself. It has no real bearing on what I said, same goes for Black.

What reason would Goku (1) have to go Super Saiyan (50) and then suppress himself to levels below his base to face Gohan (0.1)? This can be reconciled, theoretically, by thinking that Super Saiyan Gohan conveniently happens to be between Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and his Ultimate self; Trunks however, also outright states Gohan's ki is less impressive than what he remembered when he sees base Gohan, so the idea looks a tad weak on paper.

Furthermore, why wouldn't Goku finger-flick Basil or people weaker than Basil (the rest of U9) when they're giving him a hard time in his suppressed state? They're all weaker than Gotenks, who's in turn extremely stronger than Good Buu, and Goku is absolutely trying his hardest to get out of the pickle. And the moment he would he turn Super Saiyan to handle them he'd be using extra stamina, why not powering-up a little in base and, again, just poke them out of the ring?

Anyway, there's also #18 who's supposedly not that far off Goku's strength nowadays. Her random ki blasts really hurt Tupper, who has enough strength to bind base Goku (who tries to struggle to free himself even before Tupper raises his weight); this again would really suggest they all belong in the same ballpark, unless we hypothesize that the current #18 could similarly block SS3 Gotenks in the Copy Water Arc.
Last edited by LowRyder2005 on Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by mamoru » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:17 am

LowRyder2005 wrote:
mamoru wrote:
LowRyder2005 wrote:They would have been stronger than SS3 Gotenks, supposedly; recently, it's implied they also can't exactly finger-flick a single opponent Good Buu can curbstomp without going Super Saiyan and Goku transforms into a fully fledged Super Saiyan to handle Super Saiyan Gohan, who doesn't have any godly power and was overall weaker than Ultimate Gohan from the Buu arc (if not weaker than his Buu arc self equivalent at any given level, more probably).

So yeah, the hypothesis it was supposed to be a "transformation" all along that has been forgotten (not used anymore? subtly retired?) like many, many, others, in the fashion Heroes treats it, is a fairly justified one; even though Copy-Vegeta doesn't visibly power up when handling Gotenks.
People forget that Goku suppresses himself all the time. He doesn't need to go full power. Look at the battle with Future Trunks, Goku turned SSJ3 against Trunks and Trunks still says that Black is stronger than him. But then when Black comes, Goku was able to demolish him with just his SSJ2 form. He just suppresses himself a lot. Maybe you could say he suppresses himself to the power he used to have, which was his normal base form.
*sigh* This is the type of remark I always get: nope, I'm not forgetting Goku's tendency to suppress himself. It literally has no bearing on what I said, same goes for Black.

What reason would Goku (1) have to go Super Saiyan (50) and then suppress himself to levels below his base to face Gohan (0.1)? This can be reconciled, theoretically, by thinking that Super Saiyan Gohan conveniently happens to be between Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and his Ultimate self; Trunks however, also outright states Gohan's ki is less impressive than what he remembered when he sees base Gohan, so the idea looks a tad weak on paper.

Furthermore, why wouldn't Goku finger-flick Basil or people weaker than Basil (the rest of U9) when they're giving him a hard time in his suppressed state? They're all weaker than Gotenks, who's in turn extremely stronger than Good Buu, and Goku is absolutely trying his hardest to get out of the pickle. And the moment he would he turn Super Saiyan to handle them he'd be using extra stamina, why not powering-up a little in base and, again, just poke them out of the ring?

Anyway, there's also #18 who's supposedly not that far off Goku's strength nowadays. Her random ki blasts really hurt Tupper, who has enough strength to bind base Goku (who tries to struggle to free himself even before Tupper raises his weight); this again would really suggest they all belong in the same ballpark, unless we hypothesize that the current #18 could similarly block SS3 Gotenks in the Copy Water Arc.
Yeah, that probably makes more sense.

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by mamoru » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:53 am

LowRyder2005 wrote:
mamoru wrote:
LowRyder2005 wrote:They would have been stronger than SS3 Gotenks, supposedly; recently, it's implied they also can't exactly finger-flick a single opponent Good Buu can curbstomp without going Super Saiyan and Goku transforms into a fully fledged Super Saiyan to handle Super Saiyan Gohan, who doesn't have any godly power and was overall weaker than Ultimate Gohan from the Buu arc (if not weaker than his Buu arc self equivalent at any given level, more probably).

So yeah, the hypothesis it was supposed to be a "transformation" all along that has been forgotten (not used anymore? subtly retired?) like many, many, others, in the fashion Heroes treats it, is a fairly justified one; even though Copy-Vegeta doesn't visibly power up when handling Gotenks.
People forget that Goku suppresses himself all the time. He doesn't need to go full power. Look at the battle with Future Trunks, Goku turned SSJ3 against Trunks and Trunks still says that Black is stronger than him. But then when Black comes, Goku was able to demolish him with just his SSJ2 form. He just suppresses himself a lot. Maybe you could say he suppresses himself to the power he used to have, which was his normal base form.
No, I'm not forgetting Goku's tendency to suppress himself. It has no real bearing on what I said, same goes for Black.

What reason would Goku (1) have to go Super Saiyan (50) and then suppress himself to levels below his base to face Gohan (0.1)? This can be reconciled, theoretically, by thinking that Super Saiyan Gohan conveniently happens to be between Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and his Ultimate self; Trunks however, also outright states Gohan's ki is less impressive than what he remembered when he sees base Gohan, so the idea looks a tad weak on paper.

Furthermore, why wouldn't Goku finger-flick Basil or people weaker than Basil (the rest of U9) when they're giving him a hard time in his suppressed state? They're all weaker than Gotenks, who's in turn extremely stronger than Good Buu, and Goku is absolutely trying his hardest to get out of the pickle. And the moment he would he turn Super Saiyan to handle them he'd be using extra stamina, why not powering-up a little in base and, again, just poke them out of the ring?

Anyway, there's also #18 who's supposedly not that far off Goku's strength nowadays. Her random ki blasts really hurt Tupper, who has enough strength to bind base Goku (who tries to struggle to free himself even before Tupper raises his weight); this again would really suggest they all belong in the same ballpark, unless we hypothesize that the current #18 could similarly block SS3 Gotenks in the Copy Water Arc.
Didn't Gowasu state when Goku turns SSJ2 against Zamasu, that his power is rivaling the God of Destruction? It would make sense for it to be SS2 on top of Saiyan Beyond God wouldn't it?

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by LowRyder2005 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:15 am

Didn't Gowasu state when Goku turns SSJ2 against Zamasu, that his power is rivaling the God of Destruction? It would make sense for it to be SS2 on top of Saiyan Beyond God wouldn't it?
Bear in mind that, when he makes that remark, Gowas is starting off the assumption that Goku possesses some kind of power comparable to Beerus because he heard that Goku had battled Beerus and survived.
This happens even before Goku starts fighting; his remark could simply be in reference to that, and not because he's seeing Goku displaying a level of power strictly comparable to Beerus'.

It's rather clear by watching how their exchange evolves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFirOpcO0yg.

That should be really all there is to it. It's especially when you consider that Beerus was fighting God Goku at an arbitrarily suppressed level in BOG; therefore, assuming Gowas knew Beerus' level exactly, Gowas would have have no actual reason to think SS2 Goku and/or Zamas are comparable, since Beerus shouldn't be "on par" with that. Beerus is superior to Blue, which means SS2 Goku is comparatively a weakling.

If he doesn't know the full extent of Beerus' power, which looks like the more probable alternative, then he's simply thinking that SS2 Goku equals Beerus because it's what he deduced from Goku's words, and not really because he has some real means of comparison (which also explains better why Beerus' immediately shots him down, as SS2 Goku, again, is an ant to him).

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:30 am

mamoru wrote:Didn't Gowasu state when Goku turns SSJ2 against Zamasu, that his power is rivaling the God of Destruction? It would make sense for it to be SS2 on top of Saiyan Beyond God wouldn't it?
Maybe. The odd thing is that Goku is implied to have powered-up several tens of times when going SS2, which sounds very similar to the regular power-up the form provides according to SEG. In another hand, Zamasu could be using a hyperbole.

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by mamoru » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:57 am

LowRyder2005 wrote:
Didn't Gowasu state when Goku turns SSJ2 against Zamasu, that his power is rivaling the God of Destruction? It would make sense for it to be SS2 on top of Saiyan Beyond God wouldn't it?
Bear in mind that, when he makes that remark, Gowas is starting off the assumption that Goku possesses some kind of power comparable to Beerus because he heard that Goku had battled Beerus and survived.
This happens even before Goku starts fighting; his remark could simply be in reference to that, and not because he's seeing Goku displaying a level of power strictly comparable to Beerus'.

It's rather clear by watching how their exchange evolves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFirOpcO0yg.

That should be really all there is to it. It's especially when you consider that Beerus was fighting God Goku at an arbitrarily suppressed level in BOG; therefore, assuming Gowas knew Beerus' level exactly, Gowas would have have no actual reason to think SS2 Goku and/or Zamas are comparable, since Beerus shouldn't be "on par" with that. Beerus is superior to Blue, which means SS2 Goku is comparatively a weakling.

If he doesn't know the full extent of Beerus' power, which looks like the more probable alternative, then he's simply thinking that SS2 Goku equals Beerus because it's what he deduced from Goku's words, and not really because he has some real means of comparison (which also explains better why Beerus' immediately shots him down, as SS2 Goku, again, is an ant to him).
Ahhh... Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me :D

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by Potara_Vegetto » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:24 am

Proofs against the form.

- Everyone felt Goku's presence against Freeza, so did Gotenks to Copy Vegeta.
- SSGod appeared again, in the manga and the anime, why not use this "Beyond God" state instead of the God form itself?
- After seeing Vegeta going SSGSS, Black says "Wonderful, so that's the look of a Saiyan who achieved the power of the gods" - implying that they only reach this kind of power in the Blue form.

Proofs of the form.

- The Fukkatsu no F guidebook say this form actually exist.

SUPPOSEDLY, this form waste less energy than the God form itself and the Saiyan can control his power easily.

MAYBE (personal opinion), both Goku and Vegeta needed to reach the God form first, absorb the God power and the Blue is born after the perfect control of this internal power allowing them to turn into Super Saiyans using this power, like the base form and the SS1. The God form would be the base form to turn Blue.

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:18 am

Potara_Vegetto wrote:Proofs against the form.

- Everyone felt Goku's presence against Freeza, so did Gotenks to Copy Vegeta.
- SSGod appeared again, in the manga and the anime, why not use this "Beyond God" state instead of the God form itself?
- After seeing Vegeta going SSGSS, Black says "Wonderful, so that's the look of a Saiyan who achieved the power of the gods" - implying that they only reach this kind of power in the Blue form.
Perhaps Goku and Vegeta don't keep all the ki inside their bodies while in that state. We could justify the choice due to "convenience". They use what is suited to the moment. And, well, we have a precedent that a non-God form can be as powerful as SSGod, so it could a matter of sensing God ki.

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by caiojoorge » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:50 am

Potara_Vegetto wrote: MAYBE (personal opinion), both Goku and Vegeta needed to reach the God form first, absorb the God power...
It is said that the ritual is needed to access the God Form. But not the only way. Vegeta did it by himself.
But I agree with you with the "absorb" thing.

In my opinion, the SBG form is more like a SSG 50%.
We know that the red hair depletes the body less than blue hair, but we have to assume that even that spend a lot of stamina for being a transformation.
That's where the SBG comes in. He can access the SSG, but not full power, wasting less stamina.

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by mamoru » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:14 am

caiojoorge wrote:
Potara_Vegetto wrote: MAYBE (personal opinion), both Goku and Vegeta needed to reach the God form first, absorb the God power...
It is said that the ritual is needed to access the God Form. But not the only way. Vegeta did it by himself.
But I agree with you with the "absorb" thing.

In my opinion, the SBG form is more like a SSG 50%.
We know that the red hair depletes the body less than blue hair, but we have to assume that even that spend a lot of stamina for being a transformation.
That's where the SBG comes in. He can access the SSG, but not full power, wasting less stamina.
I don't think it's like that. Goku could freaking punch Beerus's God of Destruction Sphere or whatever, that even his SSJ form couldn't handle, implying that his base form is now stronger than SSG. So I think is that Goku can stack the Super Saiyan God Multiplier, that surpasses the initial Super Saiyan God in the BoG Saga. The only reason why he can't infinitely absorb and stack it again is because when Goku first acheived SSG, it was through a ritual, and now he can do it himself. So basically Super Saiyan God will always be stronger than Goku's massive base form that surpassed the initial Super Saiyan God in Battle of Gods

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:02 pm

mamoru wrote:Okay, so I know this "Saiyan Beyond God" name isn't official and it was just used in DBH. Okay, so I have a few questions in mind about this. So we all know that Goku absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God into his base form right? Then with training with Whis, and not letting his ki leak out, his base is now Saiyan Beyond God. It's not a transformation but just his base form. What I'm trying to say is, if Goku already absorbed God's power into his base form, why would he turn SSG again? wouldn't it be the same strength as his base form since Saiyan Beyond God is basically accessing the powers of SSG in his base form? Or maybe Saiyan Beyond God doesn't have the unique abilities of SSG such as nullifying attacks and healing powers?
It appears that Goku & Vegeta returned to their regular base forms after their training inside the RoSaT. However, because this has never been directly adressed in the series, the base with God power form seems to appear here & there in a few episodes, so either Goku can use both base with God power & SSG, or the episodes where base with God power appear are inconsistent.
Grimlock wrote:It's because it was used in Dragon Ball Heroes that makes the name official. It's not a random name made up by fans.
The form doesn't have a name in DBH. The ability description describes the "transformed" Goku as "a Saiyan who has surpassed God", which is where the term "Saiyan beyond God" is derived from. The form itself is actually slightly weaker than SSG, and FnF base Goku had surpassed BoG SSG Goku's level thanks to his fight with Beerus & training with Whis, and Goku couldn't turn into a SSG at will at that point, which is why DBH describes him like this. The closest name of the form comes from the description of Super Saiyan Blue, which is "Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God", since Super Saiyan Blue/Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is "a Super Saiyan who is a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God".
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by Grimlock » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:45 pm

I'm aware of all that (and since "Saiyan beyond God" is a perfect synonymous, it can perfectly be used as an official name. Just like Herms' "Omni-King", it's an adaptation without losing its very meaning).
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Re: Saiyan Beyond God

Post by mamoru » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:16 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
mamoru wrote:Okay, so I know this "Saiyan Beyond God" name isn't official and it was just used in DBH. Okay, so I have a few questions in mind about this. So we all know that Goku absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God into his base form right? Then with training with Whis, and not letting his ki leak out, his base is now Saiyan Beyond God. It's not a transformation but just his base form. What I'm trying to say is, if Goku already absorbed God's power into his base form, why would he turn SSG again? wouldn't it be the same strength as his base form since Saiyan Beyond God is basically accessing the powers of SSG in his base form? Or maybe Saiyan Beyond God doesn't have the unique abilities of SSG such as nullifying attacks and healing powers?
It appears that Goku & Vegeta returned to their regular base forms after their training inside the RoSaT. However, because this has never been directly adressed in the series, the base with God power form seems to appear here & there in a few episodes, so either Goku can use both base with God power & SSG, or the episodes where base with God power appear are inconsistent.
Grimlock wrote:It's because it was used in Dragon Ball Heroes that makes the name official. It's not a random name made up by fans.
The form doesn't have a name in DBH. The ability description describes the "transformed" Goku as "a Saiyan who has surpassed God", which is where the term "Saiyan beyond God" is derived from. The form itself is actually slightly weaker than SSG, and FnF base Goku had surpassed BoG SSG Goku's level thanks to his fight with Beerus & training with Whis, and Goku couldn't turn into a SSG at will at that point, which is why DBH describes him like this. The closest name of the form comes from the description of Super Saiyan Blue, which is "Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God", since Super Saiyan Blue/Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is "a Super Saiyan who is a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God".
I don't think SBG is a "form" or a transformation. I basically think that it's Goku and Vegeta's base forms, and they can stack the original Super Saiyan Multipliers and then stack his SSG form on top of his massively huge base.

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