Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

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Berserker1921
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Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

Post by Berserker1921 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:56 pm

This a theory floating for some time. But I am wondering was Jiren the first god of destruction within U11? I mean some evidence might be pointing to this. I mean why wasn't Jiren asked to be a candidate for the next God of destruction after Vermonth? Jiren as the hype and spoilers are implying for him to way more powerful then Toppo. Why wasn't isn't he the next candidate? I mean he could have rejected the offer but that seems strange. Also in the manga; Vermonth was celebrating his 15th million year as a God of destruction. Meaning another god had retired or died. What if Jiren was this being?

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Re: Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:49 pm

Berserker1921 wrote:This a theory floating for some time. But I am wondering was Jiren the first god of destruction within U11? I mean some evidence might be pointing to this. I mean why wasn't Jiren asked to be a candidate for the next God of destruction after Vermonth? Jiren as the hype and spoilers are implying for him to way more powerful then Toppo. Why wasn't isn't he the next candidate? I mean he could have rejected the offer but that seems strange. Also in the manga; Vermonth was celebrating his 15th million year as a God of destruction. Meaning another god had retired or died. What if Jiren was this being?
That's not a bad theory, though its possible that Jiren simply declined to be the Hakaishin and passed the opportunity to Toppo. He isn't addressed with the level of respect for a God by Belmod or Marcarita, he may just be a battle maniac like Goku & Vegeta.
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Re: Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:20 am

Can a Hakaishin just retire? Or do they have to die to be replaced? Zeno joked about replacing Beerus and Champa but knowing how he is if he had meant it he probably would have erased them first (which also explains why they were so scared of the idea).
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Re: Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

Post by Meshack » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:10 pm

Belmod has been the Hakaishin for 240,851 years.

Just because Jiren is stronger than Toppo, that does not mean he should be Hakaishin. Being Hakaishin isn't just about being the strongest because the Hakaishin can get stronger by training with their martial arts teacher. Being the strongest doesn't matter. If Jiren was the previous Hakaishin he would have died earlier because he is a human, not a god anymore.

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Re: Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

Post by hunduel » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:37 am

Meshack wrote:Belmod has been the Hakaishin for 240,851 years.
That was mentioned only in the manga, so it's not possibly true in the anime continuity.

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Re: Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

Post by Darkprince410 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:13 am

It would seem unlikely that all the Kaioushin, Angels, and Hakaishin watching the tournament would be shocked by Jiren's power if he were a former Hakaishin. Everything said heavily indicates that Jiren is more or less a mystery to all the gods of the other universes, which wouldn't logically be the case if Jiren was one of them at some point, especially as far back as some of them go (Beerus, for example, has been operating for tens of millions of years at least).

Besides, as others have said, it's not like it's impossible for him to refuse the offer. Goku, for example, has said he has no desire to ever become one when it was suggested that's what he was training to become stronger for, so why would it necessarily need to be different for Jiren to have done the same?

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Re: Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

Post by Meshack » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:31 pm

hunduel wrote:
Meshack wrote:Belmod has been the Hakaishin for 240,851 years.
That was mentioned only in the manga, so it's not possibly true in the anime continuity.
Doesn't matter. The anime and manga are both Dragon Ball Super and the two forms of media have common material. Just because it wasn't mentioned in the anime doesn't mean it's not the same. The anime never mentioned what Rose was but the manga did. The anime will never mention it again. Same for the Do-Over ability. The anime is not going to explain it. Same for Super Saiyan God.

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Re: Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:55 am

Meshack wrote:
hunduel wrote:
Meshack wrote:Belmod has been the Hakaishin for 240,851 years.
That was mentioned only in the manga, so it's not possibly true in the anime continuity.
Doesn't matter. The anime and manga are both Dragon Ball Super and the two forms of media have common material. Just because it wasn't mentioned in the anime doesn't mean it's not the same. The anime never mentioned what Rose was but the manga did. The anime will never mention it again. Same for the Do-Over ability. The anime is not going to explain it. Same for Super Saiyan God.
Both mediums are based off of a vague plot outline of which we don't know how much detail is put into it. So it's a fallacy to say that anything that exists in the manga, also exists in the anime. The number of years that Belmod has worked as Hakaishin hasn't been mentioned in the anime.

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Re: Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

Post by Meshack » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:26 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Meshack wrote:
hunduel wrote:
That was mentioned only in the manga, so it's not possibly true in the anime continuity.
Doesn't matter. The anime and manga are both Dragon Ball Super and the two forms of media have common material. Just because it wasn't mentioned in the anime doesn't mean it's not the same. The anime never mentioned what Rose was but the manga did. The anime will never mention it again. Same for the Do-Over ability. The anime is not going to explain it. Same for Super Saiyan God.
Both mediums are based off of a vague plot outline of which we don't know how much detail is put into it. So it's a fallacy to say that anything that exists in the manga, also exists in the anime. The number of years that Belmod has worked as Hakaishin hasn't been mentioned in the anime.
It's mentioned in the manga so that's the amount of years he has been Hakaishin unless stated otherwise.

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Re: Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:40 pm

Meshack wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Meshack wrote: Doesn't matter. The anime and manga are both Dragon Ball Super and the two forms of media have common material. Just because it wasn't mentioned in the anime doesn't mean it's not the same. The anime never mentioned what Rose was but the manga did. The anime will never mention it again. Same for the Do-Over ability. The anime is not going to explain it. Same for Super Saiyan God.
Both mediums are based off of a vague plot outline of which we don't know how much detail is put into it. So it's a fallacy to say that anything that exists in the manga, also exists in the anime. The number of years that Belmod has worked as Hakaishin hasn't been mentioned in the anime.
It's mentioned in the manga so that's the amount of years he has been Hakaishin unless stated otherwise.
Within the continuity of the manga, that is how long Belmod has been a Hakaishin. What occurs in the manga has no bearing on the story of the anime and vice versa. What would happen if the anime were to give a radically different time frame for how long Belmod has been a Hakaishin? Which medium would you take into more consideration for that scenario?

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Re: Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:09 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Meshack wrote: It's mentioned in the manga so that's the amount of years he has been Hakaishin unless stated otherwise.
Within the continuity of the manga, that is how long Belmod has been a Hakaishin. What occurs in the manga has no bearing on the story of the anime and vice versa. What would happen if the anime were to give a radically different time frame for how long Belmod has been a Hakaishin? Which medium would you take into more consideration for that scenario?
This is backstory info, that sounds like the kind of stuff, that should hold true across all media like the date on which the Super Dtagonballs were created.
I find it to be massively unlikely there would be a difference between the two.

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Re: Was Jiren the original god of destruction of U11?

Post by Meshack » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:12 pm

Anyway, if Jiren was a Hakaishin, the Kaiohshin, Hakaishin, and Angels would have recognized him as the previous Hakaishin. It makes no sense for only Belmod, Markarita, and Kai to only know about Jiren. The only thing the others knew about Jiren was a rumor he was stronger than a Hakaishin but again, they didn't know it was Jiren.

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