Ultra Instinct "Omen"

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DSB
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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen"

Post by DSB » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:32 pm

Darkprince410 wrote:
DSB wrote: On top of that. This isn't even the final transformation. It's missing the slit eyes, spiky hair and even more colorful aura and halos. TOEI really did such a wonderful job on this transformation. And they didn't outright do the cliche trope of weak guy gets power, stomps opponent. Goku lost because he ran out of the form. Goku is going to earn it the hard way next time they match up. Just brilliant stuff. Can't wait for when Goku is fully at his max on this form with those slit eyes, spiky hair etc. Already drooling here waiting for that moment.

I believe the Slit eyes where a wrong thing. I'm even doubting a shirtless Goku. What can make Goku even more beat up now so that he would lose his shirt???
There weren't any slit eyes. If you're referring to the promo image first revealing it, that looks pretty clearly to be just a bright reflection over his eyes that just makes it look "slightly" like slits, but they're just the silver irises and black pupils we saw in episode #110 just partially obscured by that reflection.
Ya i know there wasnt any slit eyes. I was telling that to this other dude.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen"

Post by Darkprince410 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:35 pm

DSB wrote:
Darkprince410 wrote:
DSB wrote: On top of that. This isn't even the final transformation. It's missing the slit eyes, spiky hair and even more colorful aura and halos. TOEI really did such a wonderful job on this transformation. And they didn't outright do the cliche trope of weak guy gets power, stomps opponent. Goku lost because he ran out of the form. Goku is going to earn it the hard way next time they match up. Just brilliant stuff. Can't wait for when Goku is fully at his max on this form with those slit eyes, spiky hair etc. Already drooling here waiting for that moment.

I believe the Slit eyes where a wrong thing. I'm even doubting a shirtless Goku. What can make Goku even more beat up now so that he would lose his shirt???
There weren't any slit eyes. If you're referring to the promo image first revealing it, that looks pretty clearly to be just a bright reflection over his eyes that just makes it look "slightly" like slits, but they're just the silver irises and black pupils we saw in episode #110 just partially obscured by that reflection.
Ya i know there wasnt any slit eyes. I was telling that to this other dude.
Your quote was broken, so it looked like you had posted it.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen"

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:30 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: You know, I didn't make the connection with Goku reaffirmation of how Goku prefer using his own devices to fight and attain new echelons of power until Whis made the comment of Goku fought against being consumed by the power of Genki Dama. It then dawned on me how Goku stance was when he attained Super Saiyan God. Not to mention how Vegeta acts the same way as well, especially with how he brute forces his way to Super Saiyan Blue with the use of Super Saiyan God ritual.


On SSB, I always had problems with Super's portrayal of the form never really ever emphasizing what Toriyama said of it in ROF, with representing and requiring tranquility to achieve, and that tranquility was supposed to be what gave them ki control, which would have lead up to this omen. Super also skipped the logical in-between stage where they were supposed to be training to keep their ki internal to truly mastered the basic of godhood. (not letting ki leak out, conserving stamina and powering up their physical bodies in a more inverted sense). Super seemed to just treat SSB like SS3, and that giving Goku kaioken may have been logical for the theme of the Instinct omen but it, contradicts (to me) what SSB was supposed to be about. Where as at the least, in the manga it focused more on that actual ki control (unlike Super it just being a handwave device).
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen"

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:20 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Isn't the "Omen" thing only referred to in that Dokkan Battle thing? No where else seemed to use it just "Ultra Instinct".

DSB wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:There's almost certainly going to be a "mastered" version of it at some point. Here Goku was basically running on adrenaline. Considering he was gaining on Jiren toward the end, give him some energy and time to recover, and round 2 might not seem so insurmountable.

Whether it's a transformation or not, it's going to be treated as such going forward. Kaioken and Ultimate Gohan aren't "transformations", but that's how they're presented in video games and the like. I still maintain however that this is the best new form since Super Saiyan 2. Aside from the fact that it isn't a Saiyan-exclusive thing for once (which the previous God forms really didn't need to be), it was well explained, built up throughout the series and has an appreciable difference in how battles are fought beyond "oh, he's stronger now". It ties into the core themes of the series and has some nice subtle parallels with other forms. It's like Potential Unleashed but emphasising sense and movement rather than power. It's the inverse of Super Saiyan 4, representing zen-like calm instead of primal fury. It already has the perfect contrast in Jiren, flowing like water while he stays grounded like a rock. I'm fascinated to learn more about it going forward.

I would argue its the only form that can compete with the awe inducing OG SSj. better than SSj2.
I wouldn't call OG SS "awe inducing" it turned a Saiyans hair a random yellow with green eyes, this form easily surpasses it, Ultra Instinct is what the Original Super Saiyan should have been.
Wow, when I said it was the best since 2, I wasn't expecting people to even agree with me, let alone take it further!

At the end of the day, the emergence of SSJ1 and 2 are such iconic moments ingrained into the collective consciousness that I don't think they'll ever be topped. They have a headstart on Ultra Instinct of about two decades for a start. However, they like just about every power-up are a symptom of the franchise's deepest-running problem, which is that's in a constant state of progression where the only way to go is upward. With each new form or power-up, old characters are left behind while it becomes harder to suspend disbelief that no, this new yellow hairstyle is totally a hundred times stronger than the old one, you guys. And as characters get stronger, you start asking why they don't blow up the planet just by coughing when that was established as possible for someone as weak as Saiyan-saga Vegeta.

I'll give modern Dragon Ball credit for trying to move away from that noise, even if it stumbles at times. In the old days, raw strength was enough to 'override' any creative gimmick a character might have. Now, characters like Magetta or Dyspo can be a significant threat because of abilities outside of just being strong (Hit's probably a better example, but he's strong on his own and his fight with Jiren might make me eat my words). To me, Ultra Instinct feels like the potential Super's always had to escape the grasp of power levels has finally come through. It doesn't really matter how strong Goku is when he's in that state; he could still be weaker than Jiren, or Beerus for all I care. Instead, by fighting on instinct and realising what Whis has been trying to teach him, he's able to concern both of them more than he could by simply building on Blue or increasing his Kaioken multiplier.

I'm still sure he's going to find ways to build on Ultra Instinct, and I can see Vegeta following right behind him. But even so, this form signals the end of transformation fatigue for me.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen"

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:51 pm

To me, it appears that this is a Saiyan transformation that grants the user the ability to use Ultra Instict, like Super Saiyan God/Blue/Rose grant the user godly ki. Beerus used it in the manga, and neither his eyes changed, nor did he emmit any heat like Goku or had a terrifyingly calm ki, and these traits don't appear to be normal traits of Ultra Instict since all the gods assumed that Goku was using Ultra Instict not from his appearance or ki, but from the way he was fighting, and they weren't even 100% sure that this was Ultra Instict. Plus, Goku's power was beyond the SSBKKx20's & Genki Dama's level, and the Genki Dama was said that it only restored Goku's power, it didn't make him stronger. Plus, from the way Whis described it in the past in all media, it sounds like this is a skill that you learn like punching & dodging, not an ability that you "activate" like Kaio-ken. So, maybe Kuririn or Piccolo can learn it, but I don't believe they will emmit any heat from their bodies & suddenly become able to fight gods only by learning Ultra Instict.

Ultra Instict doesn't appear to have an aura (that blue thing is heat, not an aura), like Perfect Super Saiyan Blue in the manga. I wonder if they will be related... :think:
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen"

Post by Duo » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:44 am

KidGoku>3 wrote:Goku and Beerus are such an awesome duo (no pun intended) too.
I see what you did there.

Also, agreed. If I remembered how I programmed my avatars, I would love to add Beerus to the line up.

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Re: Ultra Instinct "Omen"

Post by MaxZ » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:49 am

hunduel wrote:What I truly care about right now is its accessibility. Is it going to be a saiyan-only thing again, or will other races (humans, namekians, etc.) will be able to tap it under the right circumstances?
I don’t personally see it as a Saiyan exclusive form however I doubt that anyone else in the cast will get it, besides maaaaybe Frieza

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