Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

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theherodjl
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Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

Post by theherodjl » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:36 am

Especially given that Kaioshin stated Vegetto is possibly even stronger than Beerus while Jiren is stated to be stronger than Belmod, include the fact that Beerus has proven to be somewhat superior to his fellow Hakaishin in the manga. Does that mean it would take Vegetto to fight evenly with Jiren?
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Re: Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

Post by DSB » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:04 am

Maybe not on par...... But close. Stronger than Merged Zamasu though

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Re: Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

Post by LowRyder2005 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:12 am

theherodjl wrote:Especially given that Kaioshin stated Vegetto is possibly even stronger than Beerus while Jiren is stated to be stronger than Belmod, include the fact that Beerus has proven to be somewhat superior to his fellow Hakaishin in the manga. Does that mean it would take Vegetto to fight evenly with Jiren?
Jiren is stronger than the God who beat Beerus at arm-wrestling, who so far is supposed to be Quitela. He isn't necessarily stronger than his Universe's God of Destruction unless I missed out something in the episode (because this stuff keeps popping everywhere, enough to make me doubt there's a real statement of his superiority I missed).

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Re: Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

Post by Forte224 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:54 am

LowRyder2005 wrote:
theherodjl wrote:Especially given that Kaioshin stated Vegetto is possibly even stronger than Beerus while Jiren is stated to be stronger than Belmod, include the fact that Beerus has proven to be somewhat superior to his fellow Hakaishin in the manga. Does that mean it would take Vegetto to fight evenly with Jiren?
Jiren is stronger than the God who beat Beerus at arm-wrestling, who so far is supposed to be Quitela. He isn't necessarily stronger than his Universe's God of Destruction unless I missed out something in the episode (because this stuff keeps popping everywhere, enough to make me doubt there's a real statement of his superiority I missed).
https://youtu.be/wvrNHKBp098
Whis doesn't seem to specify. He just says stronger than a Hakaishin

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Re: Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:29 am

He may be or he may be not. And I hate to sound so flippant, but, does it really matter?

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Re: Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

Post by Meshack » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:22 am

We don't know but Jiren's power was on the level of Hakaishin. Potara Zamasu was most likely not on that level.

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Re: Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

Post by Lionel » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:23 am

I would say in the same general realm of power, but they aren't equal to each other. Anime Vegetto would still eclipse him by combining the blue form with Kaioken, assuming he's capable of doing so. Whis himself might not be able to retain his supremacy if a Kaioken x20 were achieved by the merged Saiyan while in his transformed state.

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Re: Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

Post by theherodjl » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:14 pm

Lionel wrote:I would say in the same general realm of power, but they aren't equal to each other. Anime Vegetto would still eclipse him by combining the blue form with Kaioken, assuming he's capable of doing so. Whis himself might not be able to retain his supremacy if a Kaioken x20 were achieved by the merged Saiyan while in his transformed state.
Wouldn't attempting a Kaio-ken x20 kill the fusion time? Vegetto didn't last a whole hour just being in the SSJB state and battling an inferior opponent, I'd think that Vegetto might just burn out too quickly if we was fighting serious AND using Kaio-ken. I think Jiren ought to win the fight if Vegetto's fusion time has such a strained limitation as it is.
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Re: Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

Post by Arugela » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:59 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Lionel wrote:I would say in the same general realm of power, but they aren't equal to each other. Anime Vegetto would still eclipse him by combining the blue form with Kaioken, assuming he's capable of doing so. Whis himself might not be able to retain his supremacy if a Kaioken x20 were achieved by the merged Saiyan while in his transformed state.
Wouldn't attempting a Kaio-ken x20 kill the fusion time? Vegetto didn't last a whole hour just being in the SSJB state and battling an inferior opponent, I'd think that Vegetto might just burn out too quickly if we was fighting serious AND using Kaio-ken. I think Jiren ought to win the fight if Vegetto's fusion time has such a strained limitation as it is.
Considering the TOP has less time than the fusion limitation that might not be an issue. The less time left on the clock hypothetically the better the excuse to go all out in a fusion.

I think the issue is they can't use items. So they would have to go Gogetta not Vegetto(Potara earings would not be considered part of a technique more than likely.). So, chance to make him undeniably canon here!! :D And if they fuse like they've done it before it might make him legitimate in the movie sense. If not they may accidentally do a good version repeating past messed up fusion dances. With how goofy Goku is this arc Gogetta is more appropriate for the tournament potentially. It would be cool to see that fusion for certain. And maybe we can get more info on fusions then. In fact I have this idea in my head the bugs will demonstrate fusion and this will give the cue for vegeta and goku to know they can do this safely. And possibly piccolo and others. Which would make an odd ending as if piccolos perma fusion happens it's impossible for both U7 and U6 to potentially be eliminated as he's on both sides...

And thinking about it, I don't think freeza and goku could fusion dance because of height. I think goku and vegeta or vegeta and freeza would have to fuse. I think vegeta might be an inbetween as far as height goes. So, what would the frozen vegetables fusion be like.

Edit: And since gogetta with ssg/ssb/etc is the only fusion so far not in any movie and or series it's appropriate to throw him in now potentially considering the timing and above theory.

So, hypothetically the answer could be he's as strong as gogetta and the answer depends on if gogetta is stronger than vegetto or something similar.

Totally off topic: I just noticed something. Vegeta is vegetables. It's all encompasing(prince of all sayians). Goku is a specific vegetable. Kakarot in regards to sayians. Cloud in regards to earth. All sayians are based on vegetables and under vegetas rule per say. Freeza and his family ruling over sayians are where you stick vegetables. Freeza, cooler, etc. King cold being their ruler/orientation(cold storage or cold in general.)... how did I never notice that. Now the scary thing is that you stick vegetables in the freezer... I wonder if this is hinted at in the original japanese at all.... Or what greater significance is given in the original japanese? Is it a hint at a specific ruler in japans real history or a bad joke about zarbon and freezer being a bit kinky?! Or does the difference of sticking veggies in the freezer mean something as opposed to sticking vegetables in the fridge/cooler?! Is it a joke about frozen vegetables somehow compared to fresh?! He had a freezing effect on them?!
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Re: Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

Post by Juub » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:31 am

Depends how hard you believe Vegeto was trying against Merged Zamasu who we know is much weaker than Jiren. Shin said that Jiren was on a whole other level compared to anything they faced. Do you think Vegeto was on a whole other level compared to Zamasu?

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Re: Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

Post by Smilodon » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:18 am

In terms of power I think Vegetto is superior (not so much, but still superior...If we remember, Kaioshin said he was stronger than Beerus...And Base Vegetto was way stronger than Goku SSJ3...This would make Vegetto Blue much stronger than Goku SSJB x20 KK)...But Jiren masterized the super instinct, so he must defeat Vegetto even with less power.
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Re: Is Jiren's Power On Par With Vegetto Blue?

Post by SonReggie » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:17 am

Smilodon wrote:In terms of power I think Vegetto is superior (not so much, but still superior...If we remember, Kaioshin said he was stronger than Beerus...And Base Vegetto was way stronger than Goku SSJ3...This would make Vegetto Blue much stronger than Goku SSJB x20 KK)...But Jiren masterized the super instinct, so he must defeat Vegetto even with less power.
This. By all accounts, I don't think that Vegetto would be able to actually land a hit on Jiren. So one of two things would happen:

1: Jiren avoids being hit long enough for the fusion to expire
2: Jiren fights back and wins because it's not much of a fight when your opponent can't hit you

He wouldn't even need to engage Vegetto, who doesn't have a counter for Jiren's 'ultra-instinct' (or similar) abilities.

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