Are the Kids stronger than Dabura?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
TheGodfather93
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 291
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:55 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Are the Kids stronger than Dabura?

Post by TheGodfather93 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:21 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:Being stronger than #18 for 2 kids that have only had "play fights" for the majority of their lives is notable enough. The fact that they were stronger than someone who was way stronger than their dads already speaks volumes
True. The fact that the kids are so strong at such a young age says a lot about their potential. Shame that potential went unfulfilled.
How would lowering your level to make it so they're equal be beneficial at all? Piccolo sparred with Super Saiyan Goku to prepare for the Androids and ended up reaching a level only a Super Saiyan should be capable of. Piccolo beat the crap outta Gohan and both grew much stronger from it. Goku sparred with Kaio until he was ready to learn the Kaio-Ken. There's nothing that says they need to be on par with each other to get anything out of sparring.
People spar so that they can improve their fighting technique, which in turn helps them get stronger. It sharpens their senses, helps them practice their skills, and makes for a pretty intense workout because of how taxing it is on stamina. That's how sparring works in real life, if those eight years I spent learning karate has taught me anything. While I'm well aware that Dragon Ball is a hugely unrealistic shounen manga where real life logic doesn't apply, Toriyama has shown throughout the series that he has a good understanding of martial arts.

Tell me, how would Goten benefit from sparring with Gohan if Gohan went SSJ2 and repeatedly beat him up like a punching bag? He might get a few zenkais out of it - if those were still a thing in the Boo arc - but it wouldn't help hone his technique anywhere near as much as fighting evenly with a suppressed Gohan. At the same time, this would help Gohan regain his own fighting senses, as he'd actually have to try instead of just powering up to his maximum and curbstoming Goten. That wouldn't benefit anyone.
Not really. Look at Freeza and Tagoma. Tagoma was chosen to be Freeza's sparring partner and was crushed by Freeza every single day. The difference in power between them was quite clear. In the end, both powered-up tremendously from the training despite how one-sided their sparring sessions were. So that's another example that proves they don't need to be near each other's power to make noticeable gains.
The power scaling in Super is a mess for the most part, and trying to make sense of it is just going to lead to a headache. Heck, the RoF arc on its own was a clusterfuck of epic proportions in this regard. You have people stated to be on the level of Zarbon and Dodoria wrecking a Piccolo who is far above the level Freeza was at on Namek, that very same Piccolo getting his ass saved by a Gohan so rusty he didn't even know if he could transform (even though later in the series Piccolo was stomping SSJ2 Gohan), Tagoma shrugging off a headbutt from SSJ Gotenks, and Roshi being as strong as the other Z Warriors. When talking about how characters compare to each other in the original manga, I think it's best to leave Super out of the discussion.
You're comparing 2 guys utilizing flight auras to a powered-up Gohan that's having trouble blocking Goten's attack.

Image

The situations aren't the least bit comparable.
All I was saying is that aura doesn't have anything to do with how strong a person is, unless the aura has unique characteristics like SSJ2's lightning effects. As far as I'm aware, it's never been stated otherwise. More often than not, aura is just a flashy, superficial effect. That panel shows Goten is putting up a good fight against Gohan while sparring, but I'm not sure what their aura has to do with anything.
I don't even have them that as strong as the Cell Games Super Saiyans. They can be above Semi-Cell and Super Vegeta without any issues, though.
Fair enough. Personally, I'd place them somewhere between Android 16's level and Semi-Perfect Cell's level. It's hard to accurately gauge their strength since they don't really have any solid feats. All their best showings were as Gotenks.
If you have the time and are interested, please consider checking out my fanfiction account at https://www.fanfiction.net/~thegodfather93

User avatar
GreatSaiyaman123
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1717
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
Location: Somewhere beyond the sea

Re: Are the Kids stronger than Dabura?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:09 pm

TheGodfather93 wrote: People spar so that they can improve their fighting technique, which in turn helps them get stronger. It sharpens their senses, helps them practice their skills, and makes for a pretty intense workout because of how taxing it is on stamina. That's how sparring works in real life, if those eight years I spent learning karate has taught me anything. While I'm well aware that Dragon Ball is a hugely unrealistic shounen manga where real life logic doesn't apply, Toriyama has shown throughout the series that he has a good understanding of martial arts.
Aren't there some kinds of spar where you go all out but with no intention to kill? Considering how both were sweating, gritting their teeth and flaming their auras during the spar, it seems very likely both were bitting the bullet during their sparrings.
All I was saying is that aura doesn't have anything to do with how strong a person is, unless the aura has unique characteristics like SSJ2's lightning effects. As far as I'm aware, it's never been stated otherwise. More often than not, aura is just a flashy, superficial effect. That panel shows Goten is putting up a good fight against Gohan while sparring, but I'm not sure what their aura has to do with anything.
Actually, Mastered Super Saiyans don't have auras unless they are going full power. Post Rosat Goku didn't display an aura until he showed 50% to Korin and powered up to to fight Cell. Even during his warm up section with Cell he had no aura.
Battle Powers List (Manga)

Guardian of the city, I am the one and only...Great Saiyaman!

Post Reply