What made Majin Vegeta truly change?
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What made Majin Vegeta truly change?
Majin Vegeta and his sweet moment with Trunks was not only one of the best moments of the Buu saga, but the entire series as a whole in my opinion.
I guess one thing I had mixed opinions on was why Vegeta, only after regressing back to his evil self, was suddenly able to realize what his true priorities were and why he suddenly decided to try and save his family. It's almost as if his mind was finally at peace, realizing that he had finally caught up to Goku. Which could make sense, if their battle wasn't inconclusive. I mean, all Vegeta managed to do at the end was catch Goku off guard and knock him out. Perhaps he really did believe that he would defeat Buu alone and afterwards, both he and Goku could simply leave off where they left off. But when he realized he had no chance against Buu, he decided to go down for what mattered to him most; his family.
Overall, I feel there could be numerous reasons, but when it comes down to it, I think it's because he was guilty. Vegeta as a character had grown a lot between Cell's defeat and Buu's debut. Although he rarely expressed how much he cared for his family, it was pretty clear to me that he no longer harbored the evil, hateful thoughts that had once fueled his existence. Perhaps destroying all of those people at the tournament, and choosing to work for Babidi made him feel guilty enough to the point of wanting to redeem himself to his loved ones. He may have felt like he betrayed Bulma and Trunks, and only after realizing such power and only after being able to catch up to Goku, he realized that it wasn't raw power alone that he was looking for, but rather the love of his family and comrades. Whatever the specific reason was, Vegeta's character growth was not only awesome, but quite touching in many ways.
I guess one thing I had mixed opinions on was why Vegeta, only after regressing back to his evil self, was suddenly able to realize what his true priorities were and why he suddenly decided to try and save his family. It's almost as if his mind was finally at peace, realizing that he had finally caught up to Goku. Which could make sense, if their battle wasn't inconclusive. I mean, all Vegeta managed to do at the end was catch Goku off guard and knock him out. Perhaps he really did believe that he would defeat Buu alone and afterwards, both he and Goku could simply leave off where they left off. But when he realized he had no chance against Buu, he decided to go down for what mattered to him most; his family.
Overall, I feel there could be numerous reasons, but when it comes down to it, I think it's because he was guilty. Vegeta as a character had grown a lot between Cell's defeat and Buu's debut. Although he rarely expressed how much he cared for his family, it was pretty clear to me that he no longer harbored the evil, hateful thoughts that had once fueled his existence. Perhaps destroying all of those people at the tournament, and choosing to work for Babidi made him feel guilty enough to the point of wanting to redeem himself to his loved ones. He may have felt like he betrayed Bulma and Trunks, and only after realizing such power and only after being able to catch up to Goku, he realized that it wasn't raw power alone that he was looking for, but rather the love of his family and comrades. Whatever the specific reason was, Vegeta's character growth was not only awesome, but quite touching in many ways.
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Re: What made Majin Vegeta truly change?
I think Vegeta was initially happy about closing the difference between them, but eventually realized that it wasn't really anything special. He hated what he had to resort to in order to equal Goku, while also understanding that his selfish act is why Majin Boo was released. When Gohan was thought to be dead, the first thing Vegeta did was apologize for allowing it to happen. Once he was face-to-face with Boo, Vegeta said he was going to drag him and Bobbidi to hell with him after accusing Boo of killing Gohan. To me, it sounds like he was already seeing the situation as a suicide mission.
Vegeta probably felt like he didn't deserve to enjoy the life that was presented to him on Earth, so he needed that taste of darkness again to be back to what he was. Goku saw right through it and knew he was full of it, though.
So overall, I believe the emptiness from gaining power through possession and seeing the aftermath of his actions was what widened his perspective on things.
Vegeta probably felt like he didn't deserve to enjoy the life that was presented to him on Earth, so he needed that taste of darkness again to be back to what he was. Goku saw right through it and knew he was full of it, though.
So overall, I believe the emptiness from gaining power through possession and seeing the aftermath of his actions was what widened his perspective on things.
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Re: What made Majin Vegeta truly change?
Hey! I haven't seen you on here in awhile! How have you been?Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:I think Vegeta was initially happy about closing the difference between them, but eventually realized that it wasn't really anything special. He hated what he had to resort to in order to equal Goku, while also understanding that his selfish act is why Majin Boo was released. When Gohan was thought to be dead, the first thing Vegeta did was apologize for allowing it to happen. Once he was face-to-face with Boo, Vegeta said he was going to drag him and Bobbidi to hell with him after accusing Boo of killing Gohan. To me, it sounds like he was already seeing the situation as a suicide mission.
Vegeta probably felt like he didn't deserve to enjoy the life that was presented to him on Earth, so he needed that taste of darkness again to be back to what he was. Goku saw right through it and knew he was full of it, though.
So overall, I believe the emptiness from gaining power through possession and seeing the aftermath of his actions was what widened his perspective on things.
Yeah I agree, Vegeta probably began seeing the real value in things only after having to resort back to his evil tendencies. So I guess we both agree his change was basically induced by remorse and guilt right?
I do feel he was beginning to enjoy his life on Earth with his family, but he was so caught up in his own obsessions he failed to see it and sort of took it all for granted. It wasn't until the remorse kicked in, that he saw what really mattered to him.
I still think nothing in the series quite beats Majin Vegeta's scene with Trunks and his overall decision to go down for his loved ones.
Re: What made Majin Vegeta truly change?
The main question was Vegeta truly ever under Babidi's control? Even when he killed the spectators in the stadium I would say no. Because Vegeta is capable of making evil decisions, even now. That side is always a part of who he is. He just also knows another side to life now.
He let Babidi "control him" so he could get the Majin power up but in reality I don't think Babidi was ever in control of Vegeta. And when Vegeta made his whole speech about unleashing the evil in his heart well it's pretty clear it was all a load of hogwash. And Babidi didn't affect his heart at all.
Vegeta still clearly loved his family despite saying he no longer cared. And he felt guilt for unleashing Majin Buu and thinking he was responsible for Gohan's death. If Babidi truly unleashed the evil in Vegeta's heart as he said then neither his love for his family or the guilt over Gohan would have affected him in the least. I think that is the whole ironic thing of Vegeta turning Majin. Instead of becoming truly evil again it was like he unleashed the last amount of evil in his heart instead.
He let Babidi "control him" so he could get the Majin power up but in reality I don't think Babidi was ever in control of Vegeta. And when Vegeta made his whole speech about unleashing the evil in his heart well it's pretty clear it was all a load of hogwash. And Babidi didn't affect his heart at all.
Vegeta still clearly loved his family despite saying he no longer cared. And he felt guilt for unleashing Majin Buu and thinking he was responsible for Gohan's death. If Babidi truly unleashed the evil in Vegeta's heart as he said then neither his love for his family or the guilt over Gohan would have affected him in the least. I think that is the whole ironic thing of Vegeta turning Majin. Instead of becoming truly evil again it was like he unleashed the last amount of evil in his heart instead.
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Re: What made Majin Vegeta truly change?
It's really been awhile. I've been good. How about yourself?supercat wrote:Hey! I haven't seen you on here in awhile! How have you been?Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:I think Vegeta was initially happy about closing the difference between them, but eventually realized that it wasn't really anything special. He hated what he had to resort to in order to equal Goku, while also understanding that his selfish act is why Majin Boo was released. When Gohan was thought to be dead, the first thing Vegeta did was apologize for allowing it to happen. Once he was face-to-face with Boo, Vegeta said he was going to drag him and Bobbidi to hell with him after accusing Boo of killing Gohan. To me, it sounds like he was already seeing the situation as a suicide mission.
Vegeta probably felt like he didn't deserve to enjoy the life that was presented to him on Earth, so he needed that taste of darkness again to be back to what he was. Goku saw right through it and knew he was full of it, though.
So overall, I believe the emptiness from gaining power through possession and seeing the aftermath of his actions was what widened his perspective on things.
Yeah I agree, Vegeta probably began seeing the real value in things only after having to resort back to his evil tendencies. So I guess we both agree his change was basically induced by remorse and guilt right?
I do feel he was beginning to enjoy his life on Earth with his family, but he was so caught up in his own obsessions he failed to see it and sort of took it all for granted. It wasn't until the remorse kicked in, that he saw what really mattered to him.
I still think nothing in the series quite beats Majin Vegeta's scene with Trunks and his overall decision to go down for his loved ones.
Yeah, definitely agree there. In the moment, he had no issue killing to draw a reaction out of Goku, but the guilt eventually got the best of him. Vegeta was pissed that Goku was able to have such a strong influence over him and I believe that's where thech mental conflict came in. What's funny is Piccolo pretty much says the same thing regarding Goku and Gohan.
Vegeta had a moment during the end of the Cell Games where he apologized to Gohan when his actions nearly cost them the planet. That was the first time he's ever apologized, so you could begin to see the change within him there. Compare that to his reaction to Gohan for saving him from Reacoom. He called him an idiot and said he should've focused on attacking Reacoom instead of saving him. It's funny to see how much Vegeta's changed throughout the arcs.
This part of the Boo saga is one of those things I've learned to appreciate more as I looked back on the story.
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~
Re: What made Majin Vegeta truly change?
I think that been evil didn't really fulfill him any more and he realized that he had more important things in life like his family. I think overall this is what has made Vegeta change. Look at the way he acts now in Super. Most of the things he does are with his family in mind.supercat wrote:Majin Vegeta and his sweet moment with Trunks was not only one of the best moments of the Buu saga, but the entire series as a whole in my opinion.
I guess one thing I had mixed opinions on was why Vegeta, only after regressing back to his evil self, was suddenly able to realize what his true priorities were and why he suddenly decided to try and save his family. It's almost as if his mind was finally at peace, realizing that he had finally caught up to Goku. Which could make sense, if their battle wasn't inconclusive. I mean, all Vegeta managed to do at the end was catch Goku off guard and knock him out. Perhaps he really did believe that he would defeat Buu alone and afterwards, both he and Goku could simply leave off where they left off. But when he realized he had no chance against Buu, he decided to go down for what mattered to him most; his family.
Overall, I feel there could be numerous reasons, but when it comes down to it, I think it's because he was guilty. Vegeta as a character had grown a lot between Cell's defeat and Buu's debut. Although he rarely expressed how much he cared for his family, it was pretty clear to me that he no longer harbored the evil, hateful thoughts that had once fueled his existence. Perhaps destroying all of those people at the tournament, and choosing to work for Babidi made him feel guilty enough to the point of wanting to redeem himself to his loved ones. He may have felt like he betrayed Bulma and Trunks, and only after realizing such power and only after being able to catch up to Goku, he realized that it wasn't raw power alone that he was looking for, but rather the love of his family and comrades. Whatever the specific reason was, Vegeta's character growth was not only awesome, but quite touching in many ways.
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Re: What made Majin Vegeta truly change?
I think it was all a facade, lying to himself in his heart. He knew there would be no real consequences to his actions because of the Dragon balls and Goku simply caught him out on his bluff.
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Re: What made Majin Vegeta truly change?
I've been pretty well myself!Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:It's really been awhile. I've been good. How about yourself?supercat wrote:Hey! I haven't seen you on here in awhile! How have you been?Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:I think Vegeta was initially happy about closing the difference between them, but eventually realized that it wasn't really anything special. He hated what he had to resort to in order to equal Goku, while also understanding that his selfish act is why Majin Boo was released. When Gohan was thought to be dead, the first thing Vegeta did was apologize for allowing it to happen. Once he was face-to-face with Boo, Vegeta said he was going to drag him and Bobbidi to hell with him after accusing Boo of killing Gohan. To me, it sounds like he was already seeing the situation as a suicide mission.
Vegeta probably felt like he didn't deserve to enjoy the life that was presented to him on Earth, so he needed that taste of darkness again to be back to what he was. Goku saw right through it and knew he was full of it, though.
So overall, I believe the emptiness from gaining power through possession and seeing the aftermath of his actions was what widened his perspective on things.
Yeah I agree, Vegeta probably began seeing the real value in things only after having to resort back to his evil tendencies. So I guess we both agree his change was basically induced by remorse and guilt right?
I do feel he was beginning to enjoy his life on Earth with his family, but he was so caught up in his own obsessions he failed to see it and sort of took it all for granted. It wasn't until the remorse kicked in, that he saw what really mattered to him.
I still think nothing in the series quite beats Majin Vegeta's scene with Trunks and his overall decision to go down for his loved ones.
Yeah, definitely agree there. In the moment, he had no issue killing to draw a reaction out of Goku, but the guilt eventually got the best of him. Vegeta was pissed that Goku was able to have such a strong influence over him and I believe that's where thech mental conflict came in. What's funny is Piccolo pretty much says the same thing regarding Goku and Gohan.
Vegeta had a moment during the end of the Cell Games where he apologized to Gohan when his actions nearly cost them the planet. That was the first time he's ever apologized, so you could begin to see the change within him there. Compare that to his reaction to Gohan for saving him from Reacoom. He called him an idiot and said he should've focused on attacking Reacoom instead of saving him. It's funny to see how much Vegeta's changed throughout the arcs.
This part of the Boo saga is one of those things I've learned to appreciate more as I looked back on the story.
I love how Vegeta was able to feel remorse; it's such a progression from where he started. And this remorse is especially emphasized during their battle against Kid Buu, where he specifically wanted to bring back the people he had destroyed. That was probably one of the most moving scenes in the entire series.
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Re: What made Majin Vegeta truly change?
The best way it's been described to me is that turning Majin was Vegeta's midlife crisis. It was that moment when a young, promising, energetic man decides he's going to take on the world and make history, then at 45 he turns around and realizes he's working a menial office job to support his boring wife and kids.
Vegeta grew accustomed to domestic life without realizing it. Seven years after Cell, the daily grind of waking up with Bulma, working out, entertaining Trunks, and attending the team's occasional get togethers had become natural to him, something he neither noticed nor complained about. But once in his life, he had been a proud destroyer of civilizations, his name was known and feared throughout the entire galaxy. And now he's here... taking his son to the park before enjoying a mediocre dinner with his wife, then going to sleep, then waking up and repeating it. The only thing he really has to look forward to is working out.
When Kakarotto returned, sporting new power that Vegeta found inconceivable, it all hit him like a ton of bricks. What he used to be, what his aspirations once were, and how tragically menial his life turned out. While Kakarotto was breaking new limits, Vegeta had just been doing the exact same thing over and over for the better half of a decade.
Becoming Majin was when your dad buys a sportscar and suddenly wants to go to the pool and talk to girls. For a Saiyan like Vegeta, reclaiming his youth meant becoming a savage blood warrior, as opposed to the domesticated, grumpy hubby and daddy he had become.
Vegeta grew accustomed to domestic life without realizing it. Seven years after Cell, the daily grind of waking up with Bulma, working out, entertaining Trunks, and attending the team's occasional get togethers had become natural to him, something he neither noticed nor complained about. But once in his life, he had been a proud destroyer of civilizations, his name was known and feared throughout the entire galaxy. And now he's here... taking his son to the park before enjoying a mediocre dinner with his wife, then going to sleep, then waking up and repeating it. The only thing he really has to look forward to is working out.
When Kakarotto returned, sporting new power that Vegeta found inconceivable, it all hit him like a ton of bricks. What he used to be, what his aspirations once were, and how tragically menial his life turned out. While Kakarotto was breaking new limits, Vegeta had just been doing the exact same thing over and over for the better half of a decade.
Becoming Majin was when your dad buys a sportscar and suddenly wants to go to the pool and talk to girls. For a Saiyan like Vegeta, reclaiming his youth meant becoming a savage blood warrior, as opposed to the domesticated, grumpy hubby and daddy he had become.