If Future Roshi did Secret Training, he could have saved the future

[rereboy]

That's a huge leap in logic. It would have had some foundation if Roshi actually managed, to you know, to injure Frost, but that's not the case as he doesn't land a punch.

What...? Obviously, we can tell if a character has improved depending on how exactly he manages to handle himself against an opponent that should be WAY beyond him. And the way Roshi handled himself against Frost, despite being weak and recovering from near death, is superior to how any fighter that isn't many thousands of times stronger than a power of 139 should have been able to handle himself.

Demanding an injury as "proof" makes no sense since even if Roshi was at 50% of Frost's full power he probably wouldn't be able to injure him.

So because Frost was gritting his teeth while he was dodging the punches from Roshi, that means he was in danger? Even though we later see the context that not only was Frost never in any danger from Roshi's physical attacks, but was trying not to kill him by accident? Okay then.

It means that the scene was portraying Roshi as the impressive one, with Frost not treating it or reacting the same way as the people dodging in your examples treated it or reacted to it. Not being in actually danger only means that Frost is indeed, without a doubt, very superior to Roshi, but it doesn't change the fact that the one portrayed as impressive was Roshi with Frost not reacting to it like it was as trivial as the attacks the people in your examples dodged.

I guess because Frost was grimacing from Roshi's assault that's all the indication we need to know that he was really on the ropes and would have been hurt by a weakened Roshi, even though Frost later clarifies the context of that skirmish with how he casually uppercuts Roshi with a smug grin on his face and swats him away like a fly.

Once again you are confusing things. My point was never that Roshi was a match to Frost or able to injure Frost or had Frost on the ropes. My point is that Roshi handled himself against Frost much better than someone who wasn't many thousands of times stronger than 139 could have done.

[Lord Beerus]

What...? Obviously, we can tell if a character has improved depending on how exactly he manages to handle himself against an opponent that should be WAY beyond him. And the way Roshi handled himself against Frost, despite being weak and recovering from near death, is superior to how any fighter that isn't many thousands of times stronger than a power of 139 should have been able to handle himself.

Demanding an injury as "proof" makes no sense since even if Roshi was at 50% of Frost's full power he probably wouldn't be able to injure him.

But Roshi wasn't handling himself. Like, at all. He was just throwing wild punches against an enemy who was so much powerful than he was that he could have killed Roshi without even realizing it. It bemuses how you can come to a conclusion that Roshi has become thousands to times when, because he failed to land a punch on stronger enemy. It really reeks of clutching at straws.

It means that the scene was portraying Roshi as the impressive one, with Frost not treating it or reacting the same way as the people dodging in your examples treated it or reacted to it. Not being in actually danger only means that Frost is indeed, without a doubt, very superior to Roshi, but it doesn't change the fact that the one portrayed as impressive was Roshi with Frost not reacting to it like it was as trivial as the attacks the people in your examples dodged.

Frost gritting his teeth for like 5 seconds doesn't mean anything considering he he showed a cool and calm expression on his face when he uppercut Roshi and grinned evilly when he swatted him away with his tail. Negating the idea that what Roshi did was impressive by any stretch of the imagination as Frost was never in any danger to begin with and could have won the fight very easily. This compounded later on by his stating of how hard it pulling his punches to make sure he doesn't kill his opponent.

Once again you are confusing things. My point was never that Roshi was a match to Frost or able to injure Frost or had Frost on the ropes. My point is that Roshi handled himself against Frost much better than someone who wasn't many thousands of times stronger than 139 could have done.

And where the evidence that Roshi has specifically thousands of times stronger has still not be presented. Look, I agree that Roshi became much stronger than the last time he fought in battle. I believe that Roshi had become several tens of times stronger leading up to the events of Resurrection F given that he could easily take out Freeza's lowest level grunts, who top out in the very low thousands at best. And then after that, he became several tens of time stronger again leading up to the Champa arc. And then on top of that strength, he became several tens of times of stronger From the Future Trunks arc and leading up the Tournament Of Power. But I don't believe for a second that Roshi just suddenly become thousands of times stronger overnight or in the 40 hours leading up to the Tournament Of Power or the months between the Resurrection F arc and the Tournament Of Power.

I think this debate is going around in circles so let agree to disagree and move on.

[rereboy]

But Roshi wasn't handling himself. Like, at all.

Yeah, sure, if you say so. I've already wasted enough time on this and I would just be repeating myself from this point on. You will continue to see what you want to see and, hey, if it works for you, I guess that's fine.

[theherodjl]

I think this debate is going around in circles so let agree to disagree and move on.

That's all Rereboy wanted many posts ago, I don't mean disrespect to you but for someone who says that they don't like these kinds of discussions, you certainly can spend hours of typing and finding scans to adamantly prove a point.

[dragon boss z]

Do you watch Super? Please dont.

Of course I do and why not ? you can't take opposite opinions ?

Because i see people whining about Super all the time but still watch it. And then try to ruin the show for us who spend our week in anticipation on Sunday's new episodes. I hope you arent one of them because if you are then this is my final reply to you.

You are acting like a child. people criticize Super because they want it to be good. I also look forward to each weak's episode but I criticize the show because I know it can be better. Your very stance on this is the reason companies can milk popular franchises. Ya there are some people who just blindly hate on Super, but I doubt there are many here on this forum.

[TheMikado]

The original manga used logic and already set up Roshi at a certain level so no matter how much training he could've done, it wouldn't have gotten him anywhere near the androids level.

Super on the other hand could have him out of nowhere be on Jerin's level so it's pointless to use its "logic" when talking about the original manga.

Ironically I am watching the current android saga and when they bring Goku to Roshi's, Roshi specifically starts talking about how he can handle the androids and how his is the world's martial arts master. To which Oolong replies he's washed up and old and his strength compared to the current crew is pitiful to which Roshi concedes.

Basically this loop hole is specifically addressed.