Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

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TheMikado
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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by TheMikado » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:47 pm

DSB wrote:How come all the Super-hating Big Shots arent commenting?
Hello, I'm here. We dont have to do a "if" scenario because DBZ is out already today. We can compare its reception real time. No speculation necessary.

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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by DSB » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:59 pm

TheMikado wrote:Hello and good morning/evening. I've decided to blow this entire thread to smithereens
DSB wrote:Goku is an alien now? Such a fucking asspull. Goku was meant to be a monkey kid. He was based off of a journey to the west. What is this Superman bullshit?!
The wonderful thing about the way Toriyama wrote his work during this time period is that he attempted to incorporate and not counter his previous work. For instance the tail Goku possessed and the transformation were both integral to the Saiyan race and lore. He didn't just say Goku is an alien, he invented an entire race with lore and physical traits which tied to the trait. There is no @$$pull because its implementation was well thought out. Being inspired doesn't mean the story follow journey to the west but rather there is literal inspiration I would hope you understand the difference.

Gohan just happens to be strong when he's angry or in danger? So strong he could hurt Raditz with a headbutt? WTF?! It took Goku fucking years to get so strong to the point where he is now and Gohan just rages and gets strong? Powerscaling is broken in this arc. Hope Toriyama fixes this soon.
Gohan is presented with mysterious natural potential. JUST LIKE GOKU. It was the original trait that Goku was unusually strong even when compared to someone like Roshi. I feel like you did not read or watch the original DB to understand that innate ability and power is a thing and that discovery at an early age is a common repeat theme in his work.

That ki blast pierced through Raditz AND Goku? Come on, like he couldn't dodge that in the last moment.
Did you actually watch or read Z? Goku was exhausted and depleted in power. I feel like only someone who has no experience with the series would make a comment like that.

So there's a god even higher than kami? This is ridiculous. Toriyama just keeps pulling mentors for Goku out of his ass. First Grandpa Gohan, then Roshi, then Popo, then Kami and now he's traveling to some sort of god king? The fuck.
You forgot Korin, anyway this is the first time they have talked about an overseer of multiple planets and space... get real


Gohan just blasted that mountain? The fuck. Powerscaling is fucked in the ass.
It was established that he was already stronger than Piccolo and Goku. The power scale is consistent with this.


Piccolo just died for that whimpy kid? FUCK. Sure just kill your badass characters off and keep shoving that annoying brat in our faces. He's such a fucking dweeb that doesn't know how to use his asspull powers.
Umm ok. You dont have to like Piccolo dying but his character development was established to have nearly culminated here. Thats the point narratively. You dont have to like Gohan to appreciate Piccolos character growth.

Dragon Balls on Namek? How convenient HAHAHAHA. It doesn't mean a thing if Kami dies. Death means nothing in this series.
What does Kami have to do with the Namek Dragonballs??? But yes the Dragonballs and death mean nothing and that was the point and reason they were taken away.


Yajirobe just caught the most powerful fighter in the universe off guard? He didn't have this guard up? WTF is this shit? Having his guard down? How? He shouldn't be able to catch him off guard. Vegeta senpai is too strong for Yajirobe.
The tail has been repeatly themed as a weak point for saiyans. That was the point of the Raditz scenario. Looks like you missed that too if you were even watching.
Further being caught off guard itself isnt an issue but the over use of it as a plot mechanic isnt. It would be different if this was the 5th time Vegeta was caught off guard in a single battle. Tell me another time where that happened if you don't mind. Ill wait.


Vegeta just happened to LEARN to sense energy and he doesn't need the scouter now? FUCKING ASSPULL!!! When did he learn this?!?!?! WHEN WHEN WHEN? He just saw Goku and the rest do it and now he can too?!?!?!
That is an @$$pull but he also wasnt very good at it either initially.

Goku just happened to get stronger after less than a week traveling to Namek? Just because he trained in gravity? How doe that even work? He used to have to wear weighted gear for months and months to become better. Back in the day it was all better. It took time to grow stronger. Now just in a week?! Fuck you Toriyama for ruining my childhood!!! BOOHOOOO!!!
Yep this sucked too. Doing bad things even worse doesn't make them better.

Zenkai boosts?!?!? WTF IS THIS?!!! Goku never grew in power after being beaten into a pulp during the Dragon Ball days!! Toriyama is just making shit up along the way!! ASSPULLS ASSPULLS ASSPULLS!! Powerscaling makes no sense! Goku shouldn't get so much stronger so fast!!! Bullshit!! The stronger his foes get the stronger he gets! Fuck this!!! BOOHOOO!!!!
Goku did get stronger, but not like this. Zenkais were an @$$pull but they did at least give a reason for it. Whether it was well implemented is another thing entirely. It wasn't.


Ha Goku doesn't stand a chance. Super Saiyan?? Wow okay a legendary form. Okay nice. That's quite epic. Fuck him up Goku!!! Wow actually a crazy battle. Okay so 5 minutes huh?...............................

WTF?!!?!?!!?!?!?? THIS ISN'T 5 MINUTES!!!!!! THIS IS RIDICULOUS?!?!?!?!!?!? HOW LONG IS THIS GOING TO TAKE?!?!?!?! WHEN WILL THIS ARC END?!?!?!!? WILL THIS GO ON UNTIL MARCH?!?!!?!?! WHAT IS THIS 1 SECOND TAKES A FEW HOURS!!! THIS IS DUMB?!?!?!?! TIMESCALING IS OFF. IT'S BROKEN.

You can blame that on Toei. I don't like the Frieza battle personally.



So Vegeta just became a SSJ? I thought he needed to be pure for it. FUCKING RETCON. Sure just make Vegeta legendary saiyan as well. Fuck it. It's at least badass.
JESUS you just skipped a sh*t ton of content. Did you watch Z where the only way Vegeta realized there could be more than one SSJ is by seeing Future Trunks who also happened to be his son go SSJ... Anyway it foreshadowed the crap out of everyone getting it.

ANDROIDS ARE STRONGER THAN SSJ'S?!?!?!?! HOW!! They are just human but enhanced with technology!!! How can they be this strong!!! POWERSCALING IS BROKEN!!! ANDROID 19 iS a BITCH!! I HATE 19~~~!!!! KILL HIM OFF!!!
Um ok, First of all neither 19 or 20 were stronger than SSJs so no it was consistent once again. The only way the were to become a threat was by absorbing energy.
Anyway its science fiction. Do you have an issue with Star Trek?


WHERE'S LAUNCH!?!?!?! WHERE'SLAUNCH?!?!?!!? LAUCHN?!?!?!?!
Toriyama forgot. Idk. When's the last time she actually appeared in Z?

I hate how Bulma isn''t involved as much as in Dragon Balls. It was all better back in the day. DB was so much more grounded. So much better.
I agree on this, but the focus stopped being about collecting dragonballs and more about fighting. If you want to see the series go back to collecting dragonballs I suggest watching GT

Vegeta's pride?!?!? WTF!! Just kill them already!!! What are they doing!!
I'm not sure if you are referencing the episode title or anywhere specific with this besides rabbling

Goten and Trunks are SSJ's?!?!?! The legendary form has become a childs thing. The fuck is this. I'm going to stop watching. That Pink blob is a joke of a villain. What happened to the badass Dragon Ball show? I miss villains like King Piccolo. Heck, even Freeza was better than this pink blob. These poop jokes are ridiculous. Where are the stakes? So lame.
Umm the entire universe is at stake per the Supreme kai. The face that eveyone is taking it so likely is what he continuously complains about. As for the kids, i've written many times on the in universe jokes about it. It was never played straight. As to buu, ok don't like him. I don't like Frieza at all. Your complaints are entirely subjective.


How is Vegito so strong? Buu has Goten, Trunks, Piccolo and Gohan with his unlocked powers. SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta fuse and they are suddenly tens of times stronger? How does that even work? How do those earrings make them stronger? Fusion is hax.
Fusion is a hack and duex ex machina which can be overly utilized. However, its great power had excellent limits such as them fusing in base which apparently you didnt know because you said they fuse in SSJ form. Removing the limitations of it being permanent only makes its overuse more likely.

Gotenks is annoying. He just went SSJ3 out of nowhere. How does he even come up with these attacks? he doesn't need to train them? FUCK THIS CHARACTER. So cocky and annoying. This scaling makes no sense.
The kids trained for a year and were only this string because they learned how it do it in the RoSaT. They didn't pop it within 48 mins of finding out about it.

Piccolo is reduced to a babysitter
Yes he is, but still a voice of reason and trust

Goku is a shit father
He wasn't bad but definitely not great. His terrible father traits were minimized in Z.

Gohan should've kept training.
But he didn't doesnt want to, school and all that.

I wish Vegeta was evil again
You got Majin Vegeta whats the problem.

Krillin is a joke
He was kinda a joke at the end of Dragonball, Z didnt change that

Yamcha is a joke
Yamcha retired.

Tien where are you?
They always have trouble finding tien

BULMA IS FUCKING ANNOYING! LOOK HOW SHE TALKS BACK AT VEGETA!!!!
Again that's her character and not exclusive to Z

SSJ3 happened off screen how lame. The design is lazy. Where are the eyebrows? Toriyama is losing it
Its ugly and I hate it. Subjective.

Buu's design is terrible.
It's ugly and I hate it. Subjective. Frieza by far is my most hated character.

Supreme Kai is a disappointment. I wish he was badass. I thought he'd be badass. Why isn't he? Boohoo.
Now you are just rambling. When have any of the kais shown to be particularly strong in combat?

Freeza looks disgusting. He doesn't have a dick.
Agreed. Hate this character

My god, these sick fucks. Cell absorbed 17 through an asshole.
thorax but whatever you wouldnt know the difference

The powerlevels have become ridiculous. Vegeta made the earth shake in the Saiyan saga. Why isn't Goku blowing it up when powers up to SSJ3? Vegeta powering up back then had the same effect. It doesn't even feel they got that stronger.
But at least the Earth did shake to show the dramatic power. SSJ3 would only be an 8x power up not a 50x

OMG OMG OMG. Look at this bad animation shows art
Yes the art was bad. But so was the art from must animes during that time.
Image

Super was bad for current digital standards which used and entirely different animation method. Its the same reason we don't look at cartoons from the 60s/70s and compare them with cartoons from the 90s. When you have a gap of 2-3 decades you compare the art of that time period. DB was average to exceeding quality standards of the time. Super was below quality standards of its peers. There is no question about it.



I think the reactions would be this moronic. Negativity, toxic comments and cancerous observations are all over the place these days. I'm all for fair critique towards Super. I have some about it, but most of them on the internet are plain old stupid. I know for sure that part of the fanbase would've gone nuts over Z if it came out these days. I remember people not liking Buu. That dislike would magnify like a potara fusion in 2017. Z would suddenly be ''TRASH''.
]No it won't I've gone back and rewatched Z even now it hold up while some things are more noticable it is overall an enjoyable experience.
but you dont need to take my word for it. Look at the numbers. Kai and GT did record numbers for Nicktoons. Look at the weekly Super and Buu kai numbers. The Buu kai is the same arc from over 20 years ago, yet is doing similar numbers and sometimes exceeding Supers numbers. The idea that if presented today it would get those comments is absurd when it ACTUALLY IS RUNNING ON TV AT THIS VERY MOMENT AND DOING DECENT RATINGS CONSIDERING ITS 20 years OLD WHEN COMPARED TO SUPER!!!!!!!! DEAL WITH IT and maybe next time come with some facts or evidence or at least watch more than youtube clips.

JUST TO RECAP IN CASE IT WASNT CLEAR. THE HARD NUMBERS OF CURRENT Z RATINGS STATE YOUR ENTIRE PREMISE IS WRONG!!!
Boy i was terrified that you will refute everything. But you missed the entire premise. These arent MY REACTIONS. This is was the current fandom hatred logic will come up. I dont believe in half of these myself. Specially the Vegeta ones. Nor Freeza ones. So... EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE .......... try again :)

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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by TheMikado » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:17 pm

I didn’t think you would have such an issue understanding your own thread.

Here is your premise.
I know for sure that part of the fanbase would've gone nuts over Z if it came out these days...Z would suddenly be “TRASH”
Here is my refute:
JUST TO RECAP IN CASE IT WASNT CLEAR. THE HARD NUMBERS OF CURRENT Z RATINGS STATE YOUR ENTIRE PREMISE IS WRONG!!!
So again, we have a “Z” product running in tandem with Super NOW and none of those complaints are widespread. We don’t need an “if” scenario because it’s happening as we speak. Your entire premise surround the fact that you think current opinions would change if it ran today but it is running today and those complaints aren’t widespread. Your premise is faulty because you don’t even realized that there is a current release of Z right now. Basically you and your OP are completely ignorant and uninformed on the very topic of your own thread.

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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by DSB » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:22 pm

TheMikado wrote:I didn’t think you would have such an issue understanding your own thread.

Here is your premise.
I know for sure that part of the fanbase would've gone nuts over Z if it came out these days...Z would suddenly be “TRASH”
Here is my refute:
JUST TO RECAP IN CASE IT WASNT CLEAR. THE HARD NUMBERS OF CURRENT Z RATINGS STATE YOUR ENTIRE PREMISE IS WRONG!!!
So again, we have a “Z” product running in tandem with Super NOW and none of those complaints are widespread. We don’t need an “if” scenario because it’s happening as we speak. Your entire premise surround the fact that you think current opinions would change if it ran today but it is running today and those complaints aren’t widespread. Your premise is faulty because you don’t even realized that there is a current release of Z right now. Basically you and your OP are completely ignorant and uninformed on the very topic of your own thread.

What current Z ratings are you talking about?

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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:37 pm

DSB wrote:What current Z ratings are you talking about?
I completely forgot, he's talking about Kai on Toonami. If that's what he's talking about (what else is there ?) then it makes Super look even worse cause Z is already something everyone has seen yet they're watching it over the newly dubbed Super.
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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by DSB » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:39 pm

sintzu wrote:
DSB wrote:What current Z ratings are you talking about?
I completely forgot, he's talking about Kai on Toonami. If that's what he's talking about (what else is there ?) then it makes Super look even worse cause Z is already something everyone has seen yet they're watching it over the newly dubbed Super.
Is that so? Kai ratings at midnight are better than Super's???

Wow. Nostalgia REALLY sells. And these same people clamored for a new Dragon Ball anime for 2 decades

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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:44 pm

DSB wrote:Is that so? Kai ratings at midnight are better than Super's???

Wow. Nostalgia REALLY sells. And these same people clamored for a new Dragon Ball anime for 2 decades.
I haven't been keeping track but when I last checked I'm pretty sure they were higher.

It might not be the DB everyone wanted. Super has a lot more...how do I word this...I guess childish Japanees tropes like Vegeta making all those funny faces in ep16 while Kai takes itself more seriously.
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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by TheMikado » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:45 pm

sintzu wrote:
DSB wrote:Is that so? Kai ratings at midnight are better than Super's???

Wow. Nostalgia REALLY sells. And these same people clamored for a new Dragon Ball anime for 2 decades.
I haven't been keeping track but when I last checked I'm pretty sure they were higher.

It might not be the DB everyone wanted. Super has a lot more...how do I word this...I guess childish Japanees tropes like Vegeta making all those funny faces in ep16 while Kai takes itself more seriously.
No Kai doesn’t outperform Super consistently but it occasionally does. The number are relatively close and in a similar ballpark which says a lot because Kai is over 20 years old and comes on a half hour later than Super.

The point is it has good ratings considering what it is and none of the widespread complaints that are being stated here. Despite running behind a contemporary entry in the franchise which benefits from modern animation techniques.

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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:51 pm

TheMikado wrote:No Kai doesn’t outperform Super consistently but it occasionally does.
It shouldn't even do that. Not only is it 20 years old material but it's also available to buy AND watch online while the only way to watch Super's dub is on Toonami. The Buu arc is also on its 2nd dub.
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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by TheMikado » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:56 pm

sintzu wrote:
TheMikado wrote:No Kai doesn’t outperform Super consistently but it occasionally does.
It shouldn't even do that. Not only is it 20 years old material but it's also available to buy AND watch online while the only way to watch Super's dub is on Toonami. The Buu arc is also on its 2nd dub.
That’s correct and why the entire premise of this thread is absurd.

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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:58 pm

TheMikado wrote:That’s correct and why the entire premise of this thread is absurd.
A lot of the points are absurd as you pointed out but I think everyone can agree that a 20 episode fight between Goku and Freeza would've had fans losing their minds today. It was fine when we got 5 episodes a week or bought the whole thing to watch whenever we wanted but ONE episode a week ? that must've been hell for people watching weekly back then.
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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by TheMikado » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:03 pm

sintzu wrote:
TheMikado wrote:That’s correct and why the entire premise of this thread is absurd.
A lot of the points are absurd as you pointed out but I think everyone can agree that a 20 episode fight between Goku and Freeza would've had fans losing their minds today. It was fine when we got 5 episodes a week or bought the whole thing to watch whenever we wanted but ONE episode a week ? that must've been hell for people watching weekly back then.
Oh I agree I regularly skip the Frieza fight on subsequent rewatches. The things people would complain about today they complained about back too as well. Namek Time was a meme before memes were a thing.

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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by funrush » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:18 pm

The only handful of those things I see happening still are the 5 minutes memes, the SS3 design, and the occasional bad animation. I think the real complaints would lie with the filler. Shit like Fake Namek wouldn't really go unnoticed today.

EDIT: Actually, the Goten and Trunks thing would get complaints too, to an even more severe degree than the tingly back stuff.

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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by DSB » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:33 pm

sintzu wrote:
TheMikado wrote:No Kai doesn’t outperform Super consistently but it occasionally does.
It shouldn't even do that. Not only is it 20 years old material but it's also available to buy AND watch online while the only way to watch Super's dub is on Toonami. The Buu arc is also on its 2nd dub.

2 reasons. One is that it's a free rewatch. Nobody needs to buy anything to see it again.
Second is of course nostalgia. That shit is awful. It's making Trump return to coal again. It's that bad

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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:38 pm

DSB wrote:It's a free rewatch. Nobody needs to buy anything to see it again.
They're both on at the same time. You could say that if Kai was on at 11 while Super on 3 or 4 bt it isn't, people are choosing to watch Kai and walk away from Super which is on right after. This isn't all the time but it shouldn't happen at all.
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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by DSB » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:40 pm

sintzu wrote:
DSB wrote:It's a free rewatch. Nobody needs to buy anything to see it again.
They're both on at the same time. You could say that if Kai was on at 11 while Super on 3 or 4 bt it isn't, people are choosing to watch Kai and walk away from Super which is on right after. This isn't all the time but it shouldn't happen at all.
DB had the same problem remember? USA only likes mindless violence.(Cue shootouts) I think most people won't even understand the FT arc there.

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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:43 pm

DSB wrote:DB had the same problem remember? USA only likes mindless violence.(Cue shootouts) I think most people won't even understand the FT arc there.
I think the Trunks arc is where things will really pick up cause you have a fan favorite returning, an evil Goku as the villain and a noticeable improvment in quality so if that doesn't get people's interest then nothing will.
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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by DSB » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:45 pm

sintzu wrote:
DSB wrote:DB had the same problem remember? USA only likes mindless violence.(Cue shootouts) I think most people won't even understand the FT arc there.
I think the Trunks arc is where things will really pick up cause you have a fan favorite returning, an evil Goku as the villain and a noticeable improvment in quality so if that doesn't get people's interest then nothing will.
3 episodes right? I left super just before the trunks intro started. I hope others don't do that.

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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:47 pm

sintzu wrote:
DSB wrote:DB had the same problem remember? USA only likes mindless violence.(Cue shootouts) I think most people won't even understand the FT arc there.
I think the Trunks arc is where things will really pick up cause you have a fan favorite returning, an evil Goku as the villain and a noticeable improvment in quality so if that doesn't get people's interest then nothing will.
And then the ending will probably kill that enthusiasm :P
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Re: Reactions to DBZ if it came out today

Post by sintzu » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:50 pm

DSB wrote:3 episodes right? I left super just before the trunks intro started. I hope others don't do that.
I think it's 4-5.

If Funimation had this 30 seconds air before the first episode, everyone would've stuck to their screen every week :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64hlA8P ... tu.be&t=32
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