Super's feats and DBZ's feats

[KBABZ]

The feats to me have always felt like they were invented on the spot to show how titanic the fight is. Some of them get repeated from time to time too. For me the classic one is catching bullets: in anime filler Roshi is shown catching the bullets of the Red Ribbon Army on his island, then much later in 22nd WMAT filler Crane Hermit does the exact same thing with Launch's machine gun. THEN even further down the road we have Raditz catching the slug of the farmer's shotgun, which is treated in the anime with exactly the same levity as the previous two instances.

A more classic and common example is the speed of the characters when fighting. In the 22nd WMAT Goku can move fast enough to not be seen by anybody (including attacks like on Panpoot), and yet in Z Gohan again struggles to keep up with seeing the combatants himself (despite training with Piccolo, who much be orders of magnitude faster than Kid Goku was). Frieza's finger beam attack also moves faster than visually perceptible, and yet in actual animation and depiction on the page it doesn't feel any different from the 22nd WMAT example, especially since Goku vs. Tien isn't animated any different than Goku vs. Frieza in terms of the depiction of speed.

Another example: Vegeta powering up on Earth is enough to summon a thunderstorm with hurricane winds, something that never happens with Goku when he powers up in front of Ginyu on Namek. I feel the same about the BoG fight shaking the universe; it was used for drama and as a way of saying "THIS is how awesome this battle is!", but when that becomes the new normal, it isn't required to mention it every single time, and then eventually it's forgotten about entirely.

[kn83]

Also Raditz is in no way as fast as the speed or light let alone faster, it was only in Funi's dub that lightspeed was ever mentioned

Raditz was never stated to be the speed of light in the manga or Japanese anime. That was another inaccurate line in the English dub.

I have never based the argument of Raditz reacting (or at least dodging someting thrown at him) at the speed of light based on the English dub line (that I wasn't even aware existed since I have never watched Dragon Ball in the English Dub)... I was basing it on Piccolo's generic chi blast reaching the moon pretty fast when he destroyed it so Oozaru Gohan would turn back to normal:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

The Makankosappo should be logically faster than that generic blast.

This feat is contradicted by subsequent ones (like Goku in the Serpent road, Gotenks and so on)... but since some people say that the people handling Super doesn't have to show other fights of a high calliber like the one between Goku vs Beerus having the risk of destroying the Universe since it was already established that this level of power is enough to accomplish that, isn't that the same as saying that Akira Toriyama doesn't have to show his characters moving at the speed of Light is subsequent events since it was already shown Raditz could do that? Or is there some flaw with this comparison?

That moon feat is an outlier in general.

Krillin with a power level of over 10,000 took a few hours just to travel across Namek while going at full speed and Goku after his training with a power level of over 8,000 only traveled around mach 30. It even took Frieza a good amount of time to cross Namek, probably around a few minutes. Gotenks has the best speed feat in the manga being around relativistic. DBS god tier characters are FTL

If a feat happens more than once then by definition it is NOT an outlier

You are forgetting that Master Roshi also blew up the moon before Piccolo did.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... -Proba.jpg

Both feats where mentioned in the Daizenshuu guides, so they are official. The same guides state that Goku in the 23th Tenkaichi is also a moon-buster. Also, the series never give a number for how long it took for Krillin and Frieza to fly across Namek nor for Goku to fly across Snake Way. That's just your head canon. If you think these characters are just now reaching FTL in Super then watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD9UazyCxtM

Notice how he uses official material to prove his points and doesn't just make baseless assumptions like many others. It takes a special kind of ignorance to deny that DBZ characters a FTL.

[dragon boss z]

If a feat happens more than once then by definition it is NOT an outlier

Um no, do you even math? For example if a data set has 100 numbers below 10 and the number 50 shows up twice the number 50 is still an outlier.

Both feats where mentioned in the Daizenshuu guides, so they are official. The same guides state that Goku in the 23th Tenkaichi is also a moon-buster.

It also says King Piccolo is small nuke level. 23rd Goku is less than 2x stronger than him. For all we know the dragon ball moon is small.

Also, the series never give a number for how long it took for Krillin and Frieza to fly across Namek nor for Goku to fly across Snake Way. That's just your head canon.

Yes they did... Krillin flat out said it would take him a few hours at full speed, and the Goku going across snake way is easily calculated.

If you think these characters are just now reaching FTL in Super then watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD9UazyCxtM

Notice how he uses official material to prove his points and doesn't just make baseless assumptions like many others. It takes a special kind of ignorance to deny that DBZ characters a FTL.

Why am I not surprised you uploaded a Seth video? All he does is try and wank the characters looking for anything that proves his point and ignores everything that goes against it. He tries to use a magazine that said Goku crossed to the other side of Namek when Goku said they were close by right in the manga, but he cut that out of the video. And if you actually pay attention to the manga panels you could tell they were only a few islands away.

[dragon boss z]

The feats to me have always felt like they were invented on the spot to show how titanic the fight is. Some of them get repeated from time to time too. For me the classic one is catching bullets: in anime filler Roshi is shown catching the bullets of the Red Ribbon Army on his island, then much later in 22nd WMAT filler Crane Hermit does the exact same thing with Launch's machine gun. THEN even further down the road we have Raditz catching the slug of the farmer's shotgun, which is treated in the anime with exactly the same levity as the previous two instances.

A more classic and common example is the speed of the characters when fighting. In the 22nd WMAT Goku can move fast enough to not be seen by anybody (including attacks like on Panpoot), and yet in Z Gohan again struggles to keep up with seeing the combatants himself (despite training with Piccolo, who much be orders of magnitude faster than Kid Goku was). Frieza's finger beam attack also moves faster than visually perceptible, and yet in actual animation and depiction on the page it doesn't feel any different from the 22nd WMAT example, especially since Goku vs. Tien isn't animated any different than Goku vs. Frieza in terms of the depiction of speed.

Another example: Vegeta powering up on Earth is enough to summon a thunderstorm with hurricane winds, something that never happens with Goku when he powers up in front of Ginyu on Namek. I feel the same about the BoG fight shaking the universe; it was used for drama and as a way of saying "THIS is how awesome this battle is!", but when that becomes the new normal, it isn't required to mention it every single time, and then eventually it's forgotten about entirely.

Ya this is all true. It's the problem of power creep.

[kn83]

If a feat happens more than once then by definition it is NOT an outlier

Um no, do you even math? For example if a data set has 100 numbers below 10 and the number 50 shows up twice the number 50 is still an outlier.

Both feats where mentioned in the Daizenshuu guides, so they are official. The same guides state that Goku in the 23th Tenkaichi is also a moon-buster.

It also says King Piccolo is small nuke level. 23rd Goku is less than 2x stronger than him. For all we know the dragon ball moon is small.

Also, the series never give a number for how long it took for Krillin and Frieza to fly across Namek nor for Goku to fly across Snake Way. That's just your head canon.

Yes they did... Krillin flat out said it would take him a few hours at full speed, and the Goku going across snake way is easily calculated.

If you think these characters are just now reaching FTL in Super then watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD9UazyCxtM

Notice how he uses official material to prove his points and doesn't just make baseless assumptions like many others. It takes a special kind of ignorance to deny that DBZ characters a FTL.

Why am I not surprised you uploaded a Seth video? All he does is try and wank the characters looking for anything that proves his point and ignores everything that goes against it. He tries to use a magazine that said Goku crossed to the other side of Namek when Goku said they were close by right in the manga, but he cut that out of the video. And if you actually pay attention to the manga panels you could tell they were only a few islands away.

1. Where did Krillin say it took him several hours? Evidence please, because he doesn't say anything like that in the manga from what I've read. Also, without a time reference you can't estimate how long it took Goku to fly across Snakeway. Any guess without one would be baseless headcanon.

2. The planets and the living universe itself was outright stated to be the same size as the ones in real life according to the Daizenshuu. It is downplayer BS to argue that they are smaller.

3. Author/guide statements >>>>>> headcanon. If Toriyama, Toyotaro or some official guide they approved of says Roshi and Piccolo can blew up the moon then so be it. Besides, they way they blew up the moon was different from each other. Roshi used every last drop of his ki to moon-bust while Piccolo use a very casual ki blast with his weights still on. So power-scaling wise there is nothing contradictory about either feat.

4. Where in the guide or manga did it say or show that the others were only a few islands away from Goku when he flew towards them? Post some proof.

5. You didn't actually debunk any of Seth's and Chuck's claims or their sources. You just resorted to ad hominem. Typical of downplayers. And its not just Seth that's against you, there's also this: http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_ ... is%20Verse. That wiki analyzes the capabilities of hundreds of fictional universes and concluded that DBZ has been FTL since at least early Namek saga.

Denying obvious, displayed feats, especially ones that happened more than once is the mark of a delusional, biased downplayer. It's like people who deny Frieza can planet-bust lmao.

[dragon boss z]

1. Where did Krillin say it took him several hours? Evidence please, because he doesn't say anything like that in the manga from what I've read.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Also, without a time reference you can't estimate how long it took Goku to fly across Snakeway. Any guess without one would be baseless headcanon.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Here's my "headcanon".

2. The planets and the living universe itself was outright stated to be the same size as the ones in real life according to the Daizenshuu. It is downplayer BS to argue that they are smaller.

Can I see that?

3. Author/guide statements >>>>>> headcanon. If Toriyama, Toyotaro or some official guide they approved of says Roshi and Piccolo can blew up the moon then so be it. Besides, they way they blew up the moon was different from each other. Roshi used every last drop of his ki to moon-bust while Piccolo use a very casual ki blast with his weights still on. So power-scaling wise there is nothing contradictory about either feat.

The problem is Krillin pretty much flat out stated he couldn't replicate two feats below moon level when his power level was over 10,000.

4. Where in the guide or manga did it say or show that the others were only a few islands away from Goku when he flew towards them? Post some proof.

Parunga was visible from Frieza's ship, and the island dende died. That was Goku's start and stop place, which means his start and stop place were both close enough to see Parunga.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

5. You didn't actually debunk any of Seth's and Chuck's claims or their sources. You just resorted to ad hominem. Typical of downplayers. And its not just Seth that's against you, there's also this: http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_ ... is%20Verse. That wiki analyzes the capabilities of hundreds of fictional universes and concluded that DBZ has been FTL since at least early Namek saga.

Denying obvious, displayed feats, especially ones that happened more than once is the mark of a delusional, biased downplayer. It's like people who deny Frieza can planet-bust lmao.

I could easily debunk his claims in almost every video he makes. Not even just about dragon ball. He highballs Nartuo and Bleach as well.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I'd say the biggest issue is the focus required. In the manga AND the anime, these amazing aftereffects generally only show up when some tension, drama, excitement, etc., need to be played up for the scenes in which they take place.

Powering up causing the world to shake and weather to shift, Ki blasts being able to destroy celestial bodies, etc.

When it's not needed for dramatic effect, that's when these kinds of effects are forgotten about. Exchanges of blows, invisible shockwaves, and just flying around and blasting Ki at one another are all staples of the standard fight in the franchise established during the Dragon Ball Z era of the manga and anime.

[kn83]

1. Where did Krillin say it took him several hours? Evidence please, because he doesn't say anything like that in the manga from what I've read.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Also, without a time reference you can't estimate how long it took Goku to fly across Snakeway. Any guess without one would be baseless headcanon.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Here's my "headcanon".

2. The planets and the living universe itself was outright stated to be the same size as the ones in real life according to the Daizenshuu. It is downplayer BS to argue that they are smaller.

Can I see that?

3. Author/guide statements >>>>>> headcanon. If Toriyama, Toyotaro or some official guide they approved of says Roshi and Piccolo can blew up the moon then so be it. Besides, they way they blew up the moon was different from each other. Roshi used every last drop of his ki to moon-bust while Piccolo use a very casual ki blast with his weights still on. So power-scaling wise there is nothing contradictory about either feat.

The problem is Krillin pretty much flat out stated he couldn't replicate two feats below moon level when his power level was over 10,000.

4. Where in the guide or manga did it say or show that the others were only a few islands away from Goku when he flew towards them? Post some proof.

Parunga was visible from Frieza's ship, and the island dende died. That was Goku's start and stop place, which means his start and stop place were both close enough to see Parunga.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

5. You didn't actually debunk any of Seth's and Chuck's claims or their sources. You just resorted to ad hominem. Typical of downplayers. And its not just Seth that's against you, there's also this: http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_ ... is%20Verse. That wiki analyzes the capabilities of hundreds of fictional universes and concluded that DBZ has been FTL since at least early Namek saga.

Denying obvious, displayed feats, especially ones that happened more than once is the mark of a delusional, biased downplayer. It's like people who deny Frieza can planet-bust lmao.

I could easily debunk his claims in almost every video he makes. Not even just about dragon ball. He highballs Nartuo and Bleach as well.

1. Your right about Krillin's speed at the time. I'll give you that.

2. Goku didn't move at full speed the first time he traveled across Snake Way in either the manga or anime. He mostly ran and even made a few stops here and there. http://i.imgur.com/drNOUre.png
http://cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/c2/c ... 777ac9.jpg
The speed it took for Goku to fly back however is unclear. King Kai estimated that it would take 2 days but when Goku arrived back on Earth not even a few hours had past. Here is a detailed analyzes of speed in the manga :http://screwattack.roosterteeth.com/post/51219778

3. A V-jump article with Toriyama confirmed that Goku flew halfway across Namek in less than a second to reach Frieza and the others.:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... -13503.jpg
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039855
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039856
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039857
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039858

To claim Goku only flew across a few islands is pure nonsense. Frieza and the Z-crew didn't even just fight on just one island, they were moving around several of them while Goku was recovering. So the assumption that they didn't move that far away from the ship is baseless.

4. Just so you know, travel speed and combat speed are not the same thing. Even DC and Marvel comics points out the difference multiple times.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... perman.jpg

The fact that base Goku could fly halfway across Namek in about one second proves that travel speed in DBZ is FTL since Namek arc.
The fact that Roshi, 23th TB Goku and BOZ Piccolo can moon-bust in a few seconds proves that combat speed in the series is FTL since at least the 23th Tenkaichi arc.

Author/guide statements>=feats>>>>>>headcanon.

5. About the universe and planets.....
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/d ... s-1736931/
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... 675-latest

Remember, "ginga" in Japanese is both plural and singular.

6. Show me evidence of why Seth's and Chuck's claims are wrong. Claims without proof can be dismissed without proof. Seth uses proof from the guides as well as feats and statements from the series itself. What do you have?

[dragon boss z]

2. Goku didn't move at full speed the first time he traveled across Snake Way in either the manga or anime. He mostly ran and even made a few stops here and there. http://i.imgur.com/drNOUre.png
http://cdn.mangaeden.com/mangasimg/c2/c ... 777ac9.jpg
The speed it took for Goku to fly back however is unclear. King Kai estimated that it would take 2 days but when Goku arrived back on Earth not even a few hours had past. Here is a detailed analyzes of speed in the manga :http://screwattack.roosterteeth.com/post/51219778

Screw attack are the ones who said it took Goku 24 hours if I remember correctly.

3. A V-jump article with Toriyama confirmed that Goku flew halfway across Namek in less than a second to reach Frieza and the others.:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... -13503.jpg
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039855
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039856
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039857
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039858

Toriyama didn't write that article. You just made that up.
And in the scan you just posted Goku said "they're rearby" lmao.

To claim Goku only flew across a few islands is pure nonsense. Frieza and the Z-crew didn't even just fight on just one island, they were moving around several of them while Goku was recovering. So the assumption that they didn't move that far away from the ship is baseless.

Do you not read everything I post? The island Dende died on was the one Goku flew to. That's a fact. Both his start and end points are close enough to see Parunga. This is a fact. It's right in the manga and anime and Goku flat out says they are close by. It is pure nonsense to say he was on the other side of the planet.

4. Just so you know, travel speed and combat speed are not the same thing. Even DC and Marvel comics points out the difference multiple times.
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... perman.jpg

I know

The fact that base Goku could fly halfway across Namek in about one second proves that travel speed in DBZ is FTL since Namek arc.

Except he didn't

The fact that Roshi, 23th TB Goku and BOZ Piccolo can moon-bust in a few seconds proves that combat speed in the series is FTL since at least the 23th Tenkaichi arc.

Outliers

Author/guide statements>=feats>>>>>>headcanon.

Manga>anime>>>>>magazine

5. About the universe and planets.....
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/d ... s-1736931/
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... 675-latest

Remember, "ginga" in Japanese is both plural and singular.

That just says the dragon ball universe isn't 4 galaxies

6. Show me evidence of why Seth's and Chuck's claims are wrong. Claims without proof can be dismissed without proof. Seth uses proof from the guides as well as feats and statements from the series itself. What do you have?

I already gave one example. Another example is him saying base Buu saga Goku is stronger than Frieza. Or bleach and Naruto characters are planet level.

[Darkprince410]

The speed it took for Goku to fly back however is unclear. King Kai estimated that it would take 2 days but when Goku arrived back on Earth not even a few hours had past. Here is a detailed analyzes of speed in the manga :http://screwattack.roosterteeth.com/post/51219778

3. A V-jump article with Toriyama confirmed that Goku flew halfway across Namek in less than a second to reach Frieza and the others.:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... -13503.jpg
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039855
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039856
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039857
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039858

To claim Goku only flew across a few islands is pure nonsense. Frieza and the Z-crew didn't even just fight on just one island, they were moving around several of them while Goku was recovering. So the assumption that they didn't move that far away from the ship is baseless.

1) North Kaiou commented that the Saiyans would land "tomorrow" and that it'd take two days for Goku to get there. Given that it took a few hours after the Saiyans arrived for Goku to reach Earth means that it took both till "tomorrow" and then the unspecified hours after that (at least three, given that Vegeta gave Goku three hours to get to Earth). As such, you're looking at roughly a 27+hr time frame.

2) Toriyama didn't make that. That first image is from the back of Viz's volume 10 release of the manga, and was something that their staff made up as an additional blurb. Neither Toriyama nor Shueisha had anything to do with the "information" from that blurb, meaning it's no more accurate than the old Bardock being a "brilliant scientist" line from the early Funimation dub. Official source saying it, but not from the original creators at all.

Likewise, the visual information given to us points to the whole fights transpiring fairly close to Freeza's ship, not on the entire opposite side of the planet.

Here is how far Polunga's island (where he was called out) was in relation to Freeza's ship:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Here is how far that same island was in relation to portions of Goku's and Freeza's battle:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[dragon boss z]

The speed it took for Goku to fly back however is unclear. King Kai estimated that it would take 2 days but when Goku arrived back on Earth not even a few hours had past. Here is a detailed analyzes of speed in the manga :http://screwattack.roosterteeth.com/post/51219778

3. A V-jump article with Toriyama confirmed that Goku flew halfway across Namek in less than a second to reach Frieza and the others.:
https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... -13503.jpg
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039855
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039856
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039857
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/images/1300-3039858

To claim Goku only flew across a few islands is pure nonsense. Frieza and the Z-crew didn't even just fight on just one island, they were moving around several of them while Goku was recovering. So the assumption that they didn't move that far away from the ship is baseless.

1) North Kaiou commented that the Saiyans would land "tomorrow" and that it'd take two days for Goku to get there. Given that it took a few hours after the Saiyans arrived for Goku to reach Earth means that it took both till "tomorrow" and then the unspecified hours after that (at least three, given that Vegeta gave Goku three hours to get to Earth). As such, you're looking at roughly a 27+hr time frame.

2) Toriyama didn't make that. That first image is from the back of Viz's volume 10 release of the manga, and was something that their staff made up as an additional blurb. Neither Toriyama nor Shueisha had anything to do with the "information" from that blurb, meaning it's no more accurate than the old Bardock being a "brilliant scientist" line from the early Funimation dub. Official source saying it, but not from the original creators at all.

Likewise, the visual information given to us points to the whole fights transpiring fairly close to Freeza's ship, not on the entire opposite side of the planet.

Here is how far Polunga's island (where he was called out) was in relation to Freeza's ship:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Here is how far that same island was in relation to portions of Goku's and Freeza's battle:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

THANK YOU
But he will still probably have a comeback to this. It's amazing how many people ignore the manga for a magazine blurb just because it makes it a better feat.

[STH]

Is Krillin faster than speed of light?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... 7-gul1.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... 8-gul2.jpg

[theherodjl]

Is Krillin faster than speed of light?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... 7-gul1.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... 8-gul2.jpg

Nope, Ki beams are not photons nor do they possess an limitless amount of energy to travel at superluminal speeds. So far the only fighters confirmed to move faster than light is Dyspo, Jiren, the Hakaishin, and Angels. Krillin likely isn't even at 1% of Dyspo's power since it required Hit using his timeskip ability in a strategic manner to overcome Dyspo's speed, at best Krillin is on par with a rusty Gohan who is far from the aforementioned fighters himself.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

The speed feats on Dragon Ball are just too inconsistent, they're even worse than the lifting ones. I mean, BoZ Piccolo's casual blast reaches the moon in a panel but Post Kaio Goku takes one or two days to cross the snake way at his best.

But the busting feats are pretty consistent, though.

[STH]

Is Krillin faster than speed of light?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... 7-gul1.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... 8-gul2.jpg

Nope, Ki beams are not photons nor do they possess an limitless amount of energy to travel at superluminal speeds. So far the only fighters confirmed to move faster than light is Dyspo, Jiren, the Hakaishin, and Angels. Krillin likely isn't even at 1% of Dyspo's power since it required Hit using his timeskip ability in a strategic manner to overcome Dyspo's speed, at best Krillin is on par with a rusty Gohan who is far from the aforementioned fighters himself.

I don't care about Toei's script.
Most characters are faster than light in the original manga series.

https://youtu.be/oD9UazyCxtM

[STH]

The speed feats on Dragon Ball are just too inconsistent, they're even worse than the lifting ones. I mean, BoZ Piccolo's casual blast reaches the moon in a panel but Post Kaio Goku takes one or two days to cross the snake way at his best.

But the busting feats are pretty consistent, though.

Running, Flying, Combat and Reaction speeds ​​are different from each other.

[theherodjl]

Is Krillin faster than speed of light?

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... 7-gul1.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/or ... 8-gul2.jpg

Nope, Ki beams are not photons nor do they possess an limitless amount of energy to travel at superluminal speeds. So far the only fighters confirmed to move faster than light is Dyspo, Jiren, the Hakaishin, and Angels. Krillin likely isn't even at 1% of Dyspo's power since it required Hit using his timeskip ability in a strategic manner to overcome Dyspo's speed, at best Krillin is on par with a rusty Gohan who is far from the aforementioned fighters himself.

I don't care about Toei's script.
Most characters are faster than light in the original manga series.

https://youtu.be/oD9UazyCxtM

Except they're not, Toei's script is final and holds priority over a million fan theories. DBZ's feats reached light speed for only two outlier examples and that's how its going to stay.

[STH]

Toei's script is final and holds priority over a million fan theories.

Sorry but, I disagree. This isn't Toei's series. Toei is only an animation studio.

[theherodjl]

Sorry but, I disagree. This isn't Toei's series.

Sorry but it IS Toei's series. They've animated DB since the 1980s and their work has been personally approved of by Akira Toriyama many, many times. Its purely a fanon perspective to think that Toei's penmanship is irrelevant over how fans might interpret the story to go. You don't get to downplay Toei's role when they're mostly responsible for the distribution and success of DB, its like saying that DC comics shouldn't get credit for the success of Superman when Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster invented the character.

[kn83]

Nope, Ki beams are not photons nor do they possess an limitless amount of energy to travel at superluminal speeds. So far the only fighters confirmed to move faster than light is Dyspo, Jiren, the Hakaishin, and Angels. Krillin likely isn't even at 1% of Dyspo's power since it required Hit using his timeskip ability in a strategic manner to overcome Dyspo's speed, at best Krillin is on par with a rusty Gohan who is far from the aforementioned fighters himself.

I don't care about Toei's script.
Most characters are faster than light in the original manga series.

https://youtu.be/oD9UazyCxtM

Except they're not, Toei's script is final and holds priority over a million fan theories. DBZ's feats reached light speed for only two outlier examples and that's how its going to stay.

If something happens more than once then its not an outlier. Simple logic.