The original Super Saiyan revealed!

[Grimlock]

I'm starting to think that Yamoshi was only the original Super Saiyan and there was another set of 6 Saiyans that channeled him and his comrades years later, leading to the first Super Saiyan God.

That's exactly what happened. Toriyama said that Yamoshi transformed into Super Saiyan when Saiyans were still in planet Sadala, Movie 14/Shenlong specifically said that the original Super Saiyan God appeared in planet Vegeta.

Obviously Yamoshi was dead by the time the original Super Saiyan God appeared. I... Don't know what's so difficult to understand this (I'm talking in general, it seems a lot of people didn't get this already).

[Meshack]

I'm starting to think that Yamoshi was only the original Super Saiyan and there was another set of 6 Saiyans that channeled him and his comrades years later, leading to the first Super Saiyan God.

That's exactly what happened. Toriyama said that Yamoshi transformed into Super Saiyan when Saiyans were still in planet Sadala, Movie 14/Shenlong specifically said that the original Super Saiyan God appeared in planet Vegeta.

Obviously Yamoshi was dead by the time the original Super Saiyan God appeared. I... Don't know what's so difficult to understand this (I'm talking in general, it seems a lot of people didn't get this already).

I know and it’s frustrating.

[KBABZ]

I'm starting to think that Yamoshi was only the original Super Saiyan and there was another set of 6 Saiyans that channeled him and his comrades years later, leading to the first Super Saiyan God.

That's exactly what happened. Toriyama said that Yamoshi transformed into Super Saiyan when Saiyans were still in planet Sadala, Movie 14/Shenlong specifically said that the original Super Saiyan God appeared in planet Vegeta.

Obviously Yamoshi was dead by the time the original Super Saiyan God appeared. I... Don't know what's so difficult to understand this (I'm talking in general, it seems a lot of people didn't get this already).

I know and it’s frustrating.

I think it'd help to make a sort of "timeline chart" for the original Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God as an image and spread it around to help keep the record straight.

[Zillamon51]

So...

Becoming a Super Saiyan requires a high midichlorian count.

What a bunch of crap.

[KBABZ]

So...

Becoming a Super Saiyan requires a high midichlorian count.

What a bunch of crap.

Did you not read the rest of the thread? You also need a calm heart, enough S-Cells (aka you need to work towards it) and a REALLY bad day to trigger your first one (as always).

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

So...

Becoming a Super Saiyan requires a high midichlorian count.

What a bunch of crap.

Why is that a bunch of crap care to explain ?

[Meshack]

So...

Becoming a Super Saiyan requires a high midichlorian count.

What a bunch of crap.

Did you manage to skip the entire last page or even this page? We talked about this

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

So then how did Vegeta achieve SSJ? I may be getting confused by the dub, but are 'pure' and righteous the same thing?

Vegeta achieved Super Saiyan because of self-loathing which is hatred or anger at oneself. Vegeta had the high battle power and he was on earth, which is a good environment. Though he wasn’t gentle, he was still able to become Super Saiyan. To become Super Saiyan, you need enough S-cells. Being gentle, having a high battle power, and a gentle environment can give you more S-cells. Saiyans are born with S-cells, some more than others. If you need, let's say 8000 S-cells to become a Super Saiyan, Vegeta gets a lot of S-cells from being born of royalty (stronger than his father), trained as a child which results in high battle power, and he was on earth when he became a Super Saiyan which is a good enough. That was probably enough S-cells to allow Vegeta to become Super Saiyan. Though Vegeta was not gentle at the time, he could still transform.

Righteousness is being morally right or good. Pure means you have no guilt, sexual desires, or anything like that.

The "righteous,peaceful & gentle" requirements are the only things that bug me about this. Because, that is a personality that contradicts what a Super Saiyan originally was. Just raw determined might, not symbol of heroism. It just doesn't make sense for Vegeta when the whole reason he went Majin was because he thought he didn't get stronger from peace, as peace to a Saiyan is boring. Though Toriyama just seems to be on this recent push to push the Sayians into sounding innately heroic rather than just having Goku's descendants the exception and I don't like these requirements being so one-sided and tailored for U6 this way. Now they just don't need real character development. How would Yamoshi even become a Super Saiyan if U7's Saiyans were never peaceful? Why would they be if they instinctively love to fight and very primitive?

Being pure-hearted was a lot more open-ended as Vegeta explains you can be pure evil or good, so long as your mind is centered without doubts and clear self-actualization. I saw that explanation as like enlightenment. It only made sense for Goku because he can easily focus his mind on a goal without hesitation and the anger narrowed his mind into the need to get stronger. While Vegeta being a thinker is often consumed by ego or jealousy which made his mind unclear. Just like how Gohan was always held back because he could never retain a hold a clear/focused mind with him always being afraid. That used to make more sense. Not this new sentiment.

[Meshack]

So then how did Vegeta achieve SSJ? I may be getting confused by the dub, but are 'pure' and righteous the same thing?

Vegeta achieved Super Saiyan because of self-loathing which is hatred or anger at oneself. Vegeta had the high battle power and he was on earth, which is a good environment. Though he wasn’t gentle, he was still able to become Super Saiyan. To become Super Saiyan, you need enough S-cells. Being gentle, having a high battle power, and a gentle environment can give you more S-cells. Saiyans are born with S-cells, some more than others. If you need, let's say 8000 S-cells to become a Super Saiyan, Vegeta gets a lot of S-cells from being born of royalty (stronger than his father), trained as a child which results in high battle power, and he was on earth when he became a Super Saiyan which is a good enough. That was probably enough S-cells to allow Vegeta to become Super Saiyan. Though Vegeta was not gentle at the time, he could still transform.

Righteousness is being morally right or good. Pure means you have no guilt, sexual desires, or anything like that.

The "righteous,peaceful & gentle" requirements are the only things that bug me about this. Because, that is a personality that contradicts what a Super Saiyan originally was. Just raw determined might, not symbol of heroism. It just doesn't make sense for Vegeta when the whole reason he went Majin was because he thought he didn't get stronger from peace, as peace to a Saiyan is boring. Though Toriyama just seems to be on this recent push to push the Sayians into sounding innately heroic rather than just having Goku's descendants the exception and I don't like these requirements being so one-sided and tailored for U6 this way. Now they just don't need real character development. How would Yamoshi even become a Super Saiyan if U7's Saiyans were never peaceful? Why would they be if they instinctively love to fight and very primitive?

Being pure-hearted was a lot more open-ended as Vegeta explains you can be pure evil or good, so long as your mind is centered without doubts and clear self-actualization. I saw that explanation as like enlightenment. It only made sense for Goku because he can easily focus his mind on a goal without hesitation and the anger narrowed his mind into the need to get stronger. While Vegeta being a thinker is often consumed by ego or jealousy which made his mind unclear. Just like how Gohan was always held back because he could never retain a hold a clear/focused mind with him always being afraid. That used to make more sense. Not this new sentiment.

You don’t need to be gentle to become a Super Saiyan. A gentle soul increases the number of S-Cells a Saiyan has that can help them become Super Saiyan. Also, it’s nothing new. Gokuh said he had a gentle/calm soul when he became Super Saiyan. So did Vegeta but he said it was purely evil.

[KBABZ]

You don’t need to be gentle to become a Super Saiyan. A gentle soul increases the number of S-Cells a Saiyan has that can help them become Super Saiyan. Also, it’s nothing new. Gokuh said he had a gentle/calm soul when he became Super Saiyan. So did Vegeta but he said it was purely evil.

Which logically explains why Goku transformed into a Super Saiyan so easily in comparison to Vegeta, who is not a calm and relaxed person at the best of times and thus really struggled to attain it.

[Meshack]

You don’t need to be gentle to become a Super Saiyan. A gentle soul increases the number of S-Cells a Saiyan has that can help them become Super Saiyan. Also, it’s nothing new. Gokuh said he had a gentle/calm soul when he became Super Saiyan. So did Vegeta but he said it was purely evil.

Which logically explains why Goku transformed into a Super Saiyan so easily in comparison to Vegeta, who is not a calm and relaxed person at the best of times and thus really struggled to attain it.

Yeah, but he did achieve it by being calm, but “purely evil”.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

You don’t need to be gentle to become a Super Saiyan. A gentle soul increases the number of S-Cells a Saiyan has that can help them become Super Saiyan. Also, it’s nothing new. Gokuh said he had a gentle/calm soul when he became Super Saiyan. So did Vegeta but he said it was purely evil.

And why exactly would that be? Why would being gentle increase your S-Cells when the Saiyan biology is wired to fighting and respond to self-preservation? It sounds arbitrary. How does anger awaken that intense power when its contradicting pacifism? Calmness and gentleness aren't inherently the same.

[AvatarReiko]

I don't see why a person's nature and personality would have any affect on their physiology. It seems like AT is pulling stiff from out his backside again. That's like my body suddenly producing more white blood cells because i am "gentle". It is nonsensical

[KBABZ]

Random head-canon: I'm beginning to suspect that Yamoshi is Bardock under an alter-ego. Would be a nice connection because that means in BoG he was spiritually present for Goku ascending to SSG, similar to how Goku was for Gohan attaining SS2.

[Meshack]

I don't see why a person's nature and personality would have any affect on their physiology. It seems like AT is pulling stiff from out his backside again. That's like my body suddenly producing more white blood cells because i am "gentle". It is nonsensical

That’s not the same. You can’t increase your white blood cells at least because of your soul. The series itself was created by Toriyama so he can do whatever he wants with it.

[Meshack]

Random head-canon: I'm beginning to suspect that Yamoshi is Bardock under an alter-ego. Would be a nice connection because that means in BoG he was spiritually present for Goku ascending to SSG, similar to how Goku was for Gohan attaining SS2.

I think we had enough of Barduck.

[Meshack]

You don’t need to be gentle to become a Super Saiyan. A gentle soul increases the number of S-Cells a Saiyan has that can help them become Super Saiyan. Also, it’s nothing new. Gokuh said he had a gentle/calm soul when he became Super Saiyan. So did Vegeta but he said it was purely evil.

And why exactly would that be? Why would being gentle increase your S-Cells when the Saiyan biology is wired to fighting and respond to self-preservation? It sounds arbitrary. How does anger awaken that intense power when its contradicting pacifism? Calmness and gentleness aren't inherently the same.

According to the word odayaka, gentle and calm are the same thing. Odayaka is used when describing the soul of Gokuh and Vegeta when they became Super Saiyan. Toriyama uses the same word in the interview. Your soul can be calm but you can have a heart for battle, like Gokuh. Gine is a perfect example on how her gentleness made her leave battle but her gentleness brushed off on Barduck. There’s nothing wrong with this concept. It’s been in the series since Gokuh transformed. Now people wanna complain because of S-Cells that change nothing about the Saiyans from a lore perspective.

[LightBing]

I wonder if there's a need for even more S-Cells to obtain SSJ2 and SSJ3. We know SSJ2 still needs the anger trigger, which points in that direction.

[Draconic]

I wonder if there's a need for even more S-Cells to obtain SSJ2 and SSJ3. We know SSJ2 still needs the anger trigger, which points in that direction.

Well, seeing as Goku obtained SSJ3 while dead, I don't really think so... unless his dead body in the afterlife is still "alive" in some way, therefore still producing those cells or if the S-Cells are actually on the spiritual side, rather than the biological.

[Meshack]

I wonder if there's a need for even more S-Cells to obtain SSJ2 and SSJ3. We know SSJ2 still needs the anger trigger, which points in that direction.

Of course you need more S-Cells for Super Saiyan 2 and Super Saiyan 3. You don’t need anger to transform. You just need a trigger to explosively increase the S-Cells to cause a change. Anger is an example.