Log Power Scaling - A Different Approach

[shadowfox87]

Kid Boo is the strongest Boo in the anime as per narrator & character statements and since GT is a sequel to the anime, not the manga (where he's obviously not the strongest Boo) it makes sense to view it from that lense. With that in mind, Vegetto being above SS4 Goku is ridiculous.

SS3 Goku could stalemate Kid Boo, who's the strongest Boo in the anime meaning both of them are above Boohan who Base Vegetto couldn't defeat. GT Goku is just as strong as his SS3 self from that fight in Base, meaning he's already above Base Vegetto from Z. Once you factor in the multipliers and even with a severely lowballed multiplier for 4, you'd have him stronger than SS3 Vegetto.

You should use the manga, when it comes to DBZ, it's canon, not the anime. Kid Buu is considered the most "dangerous" of all Kid Buu's because he doesn't hesitate. Shin was scared of him because he remembers the tragedy of him killing the other Kaioshin. The anime is just a mistranslation and misinterpretation of that. There's absolutely no way that Kid Buu > Buuhan when SSJ3 Goku was fighting Kid Buu evenly.

SSJ3 Goku could stalemate Kid Buu in the Buu saga. In GT, Base Goku could stalemate Kid Buu. Yes, you are right, Base GT GOku is already stronger than SSJ3 Goku (DBZ), therefore, GT Goku SSJ4 is > Base Vegetto (DBZ). I'm saying that Base Vegetto (GT) > SSJ4 Goku (GT).

I don't use the manga for GT since I don't believe they're in continuity with each other. To me, using GT with the manga would be like using Batman Beyond in a TDKReturns debate.

In the anime, as confirmed by Herms, Kid Boo is definitively the most powerful Boo which throws the entire "Vegetto > SS4 Goku" statement out of whack.

Base Vegito (GT) > SSJ4 Goku (GT) I can believe but not Base Vegito (DBZ) > SSJ4 Goku (GT). Herms did a video with Geekdom where he discussed Super Buu vs Kid Buu and he said that this debate would never end, but objectively Super Buu is stronger and that Kid Buu was implied to be the most dangerous. There is no GT manga so I assume you mean DBZ manga with GT anime. DBZ manga is still the canon version of DBZ. I mean if you believe that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu, then you are saying that Kid Buu > Buuhan which required Vegito but SSJ3 Goku is fighting equally with Kid Buu. Regardless of whether you use anime or manga, it makes absolutely no sense to say that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu.

[ekrolo2]

You should use the manga, when it comes to DBZ, it's canon, not the anime. Kid Buu is considered the most "dangerous" of all Kid Buu's because he doesn't hesitate. Shin was scared of him because he remembers the tragedy of him killing the other Kaioshin. The anime is just a mistranslation and misinterpretation of that. There's absolutely no way that Kid Buu > Buuhan when SSJ3 Goku was fighting Kid Buu evenly.

SSJ3 Goku could stalemate Kid Buu in the Buu saga. In GT, Base Goku could stalemate Kid Buu. Yes, you are right, Base GT GOku is already stronger than SSJ3 Goku (DBZ), therefore, GT Goku SSJ4 is > Base Vegetto (DBZ). I'm saying that Base Vegetto (GT) > SSJ4 Goku (GT).

I don't use the manga for GT since I don't believe they're in continuity with each other. To me, using GT with the manga would be like using Batman Beyond in a TDKReturns debate.

In the anime, as confirmed by Herms, Kid Boo is definitively the most powerful Boo which throws the entire "Vegetto > SS4 Goku" statement out of whack.

Base Vegito (GT) > SSJ4 Goku (GT) I can believe but not Base Vegito (DBZ) > SSJ4 Goku (GT). Herms did a video with Geekdom where he discussed Super Buu vs Kid Buu and he said that this debate would never end, but objectively Super Buu is stronger and that Kid Buu was implied to be the most dangerous. There is no GT manga so I assume you mean DBZ manga with GT anime. DBZ manga is still the canon version of DBZ.

I know the video, I checked it before commenting. And yeah, I don't consider the manga & anime the same thing, they're alternate continuities that spin off into their own directions, one leads to Super and the other to GT, hence why I don't take the DB mangas statements into consideration when discussing GT, they're not the same continuity to me.

[shadowfox87]

I know the video, I checked it before commenting. And yeah, I don't consider the manga & anime the same thing, they're alternate continuities that spin off into their own directions, one leads to Super and the other to GT, hence why I don't take the DB mangas statements into consideration when discussing GT, they're not the same continuity to me.

The point is, whether you take the DBZ manga or anime, Kid Buu being the strongest Buu makes no logical sense because in both continuities Kid Buu ~ SSJ3 Goku and Base Vegito > SSJ3 Goku while Buuhan, Buutenks, Super Buu are all above SSJ3 Goku.

[ekrolo2]

I know the video, I checked it before commenting. And yeah, I don't consider the manga & anime the same thing, they're alternate continuities that spin off into their own directions, one leads to Super and the other to GT, hence why I don't take the DB mangas statements into consideration when discussing GT, they're not the same continuity to me.

The point is, whether you take the DBZ manga or anime, Kid Buu being the strongest Buu makes no logical sense because in both continuities Kid Buu ~ SSJ3 Goku and Base Vegito > SSJ3 Goku while Buuhan, Buutenks, Super Buu are all above SSJ3 Goku.

Doesn't make sense but that's what the characters and narrator for the anime are going for to make the final battle feel more dramatic and that's the logic GT follows.

[shadowfox87]

Doesn't make sense but that's what the characters and narrator for the anime are going for to make the final battle feel more dramatic and that's the logic GT follows.

What a narrator or characters say can be misinterpreted or be bad translations. Character dialogue is not meant to be taken as fact. Burter says he's the fastest person in the universe for example. To be objective, you should use actual events that have occurred. Imagine watching all of DBZ without any audio. Just using the story events, it should give you the most accurate version.

[ekrolo2]

Doesn't make sense but that's what the characters and narrator for the anime are going for to make the final battle feel more dramatic and that's the logic GT follows.

What a narrator or characters say can be misinterpreted or be bad translations. Character dialogue is not meant to be taken as fact. Burter says he's the fastest person in the universe for example. To be objective, you should use actual events that have occurred. Imagine watching all of DBZ without any audio. Just using the story events, it should give you the most accurate version.

Well when Goku's the one saying it, it holds some value, he's not one to be wrong about such things.

[shadowfox87]

Doesn't make sense but that's what the characters and narrator for the anime are going for to make the final battle feel more dramatic and that's the logic GT follows.

What a narrator or characters say can be misinterpreted or be bad translations. Character dialogue is not meant to be taken as fact. Burter says he's the fastest person in the universe for example. To be objective, you should use actual events that have occurred. Imagine watching all of DBZ without any audio. Just using the story events, it should give you the most accurate version.

Well when Goku's the one saying it, it holds some value, he's not one to be wrong about such things.

Goku is not wrong. The problem is that your interpretation of what he is saying is wrong. You've been given a clear observation in both anime and manga that show that Buuhan > Kid Buu but you want to believe that Kid Buu is the most powerful. This is the screenshot from Dragon Ball Z Kai, Final Chapters, Episode 59. This when Goku comments about Kid Buu just before he finishes him off. Nowhere does he say he's the most powerful. Rather, Goku says he is "awesome" and hopes that he will be reincarnated some day.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
If this is not the scene you're referring to, then show me the screenshot from Kai with subs.

[ekrolo2]

Goku is not wrong. The problem is that your interpretation of what he is saying is wrong. You've been given a clear observation in both anime and manga that show that Buuhan > Kid Buu but you want to believe that Kid Buu is the most powerful. This is the screenshot from Dragon Ball Z Kai, Final Chapters, Episode 59. This when Goku comments about Kid Buu just before he finishes him off. Nowhere does he say he's the most powerful. Rather, Goku says he is "awesome" and hopes that he will be reincarnated some day.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
If this is not the scene you're referring to, then show me the screenshot from Kai with subs.

Sorry for the late reply, been trying to find the stuff in question, from SS2 Goku vs Boo:


After this, Elder Kaioshin calls him the original, most powerful Boo. To add further credence to the anime using a different scale, there's the fake warriors inside of Boo who are described as every bit as powerful as the originals which Goku and Vegeta can both handle with SS1. If we applied manga logic to this, Goku and Vegeta both would've died here.

http://web.archive.org/web/201111031609 ... e_warriors

[shadowfox87]

Sorry for the late reply, been trying to find the stuff in question, from SS2 Goku vs Boo:


After this, Elder Kaioshin calls him the original, most powerful Boo. To add further credence to the anime using a different scale, there's the fake warriors inside of Boo who are described as every bit as powerful as the originals which Goku and Vegeta can both handle with SS1. If we applied manga logic to this, Goku and Vegeta both would've died here.

http://web.archive.org/web/201111031609 ... e_warriors

I can't read the subtitles from that small screenshot. Regardless, the anime is the anime and has been known to have several mistakes and inconsistencies. I'm talking about the DBZ anime. There's a reason why we go by the manga. If you want to use the anime, then by all means, do that. It breaks all logic even in the anime if you believe that Kid Buu > Buuhan.

[ekrolo2]

Sorry for the late reply, been trying to find the stuff in question, from SS2 Goku vs Boo:


After this, Elder Kaioshin calls him the original, most powerful Boo. To add further credence to the anime using a different scale, there's the fake warriors inside of Boo who are described as every bit as powerful as the originals which Goku and Vegeta can both handle with SS1. If we applied manga logic to this, Goku and Vegeta both would've died here.

http://web.archive.org/web/201111031609 ... e_warriors

I can't read the subtitles from that small screenshot. Regardless, the anime is the anime and has been known to have several mistakes and inconsistencies. I'm talking about the DBZ anime. There's a reason why we go by the manga. If you want to use the anime, then by all means, do that. It breaks all logic even in the anime if you believe that Kid Buu > Buuhan.

I think the anime pretty regularly touts Kid Boo as the strongest along with Goku and Vegeta being much, much stronger after defusing (as evidenced by their performance against the fake warriors then Kid Boo) that the only big contradiction comes from the manga lines kept in.