How much stronger is SSJ Blue than SSJ God?

[LightBing]

Near just means close to his level, Goku can be stronger while still being close to him.

Also, timeskip even worked on SSGod Goku, the way it works in the manga is the greater the power gap, the shorter it becomes. Hit himself notes that the cause is the drastic difference between himself and SSGod Goku. SSJ Goku wasn't strong enough to create any noticeable change, but that doesn't mean he was weaker than Hit.

And the gap between SSBlue Vegeta (10%) and SSJ Goku can't be very significant since Hit was still confident against Goku who he thought was going Blue even though Goku was already overwhelming him and was only at a disadvantage due to stamina. Furthermore, Vegeta would have caused Hit's timeskip to shorten if he was any appreciable amount stronger than Goku.

True, near in this context includes slightly stronger. Although I don't think that's the case here.

I wrote worked but should have put was effective. It was never effective against SSJG Goku and later SSJB Goku because of the power difference like Whis explained.

Goku never overwhelmed Hit whilst Super Saiyan, in fact Hit was playing with him. Hit is always smiling and Goku struggling. Again Hit is shown actively enjoying Goku and having fun with it.
A quote while they were fighting.
Hit: However, if you can predict my movements after I vanish, then I will just have to travel even further into the future.

The only thing backing SSJ Goku being stronger than 10% SSJB Vegeta is that Beerus line. Beerus who's portrayed as incompetent. He claims Goku is stronger than Hit yet he never realized Vegeta was only at 10%? Toyotarõ writes him as an idiot to explain what's going on. Beerus is the idiot asking the wise character what's going on to make the audience aware.

Then Beerus realizes how SSJG surpasses 10% SSJB Vegeta and that's the last direct statement of power from him. If SSJ Goku surpassed 10% SSJB Vegeta it would have been mentioned here.

I'm not even including all other aspects that contradict this, I'm shocked this is even a discussion. Where in the World would SSJ being stronger than 10% of Blue even make sense in the powerscale presented. Goku going SSJ3 would then surpass SSJB and that's silly.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Near just means close to his level, Goku can be stronger while still being close to him.

Also, timeskip even worked on SSGod Goku, the way it works in the manga is the greater the power gap, the shorter it becomes. Hit himself notes that the cause is the drastic difference between himself and SSGod Goku. SSJ Goku wasn't strong enough to create any noticeable change, but that doesn't mean he was weaker than Hit.

And the gap between SSBlue Vegeta (10%) and SSJ Goku can't be very significant since Hit was still confident against Goku who he thought was going Blue even though Goku was already overwhelming him and was only at a disadvantage due to stamina. Furthermore, Vegeta would have caused Hit's timeskip to shorten if he was any appreciable amount stronger than Goku.

True, near in this context includes slightly stronger. Although I don't think that's the case here.

I wrote worked but should have put was effective. It was never effective against SSJG Goku and later SSJB Goku because of the power difference like Whis explained.

Goku never overwhelmed Hit whilst Super Saiyan, in fact Hit was playing with him. Hit is always smiling and Goku struggling. Again Hit is shown actively enjoying Goku and having fun with it.
A quote while they were fighting.
Hit: However, if you can predict my movements after I vanish, then I will just have to travel even further into the future.

The only thing backing SSJ Goku being stronger than 10% SSJB Vegeta is that Beerus line. Beerus who's portrayed as incompetent. He claims Goku is stronger than Hit yet he never realized Vegeta was only at 10%? Toyotarõ writes him as an idiot to explain what's going on. Beerus is the idiot asking the wise character what's going on to make the audience aware.

Then Beerus realizes how SSJG surpasses 10% SSJB Vegeta and that's the last direct statement of power from him. If SSJ Goku surpassed 10% SSJB Vegeta it would have been mentioned here.

I'm not even including all other aspects that contradict this, I'm shocked this is even a discussion. Where in the World would SSJ being stronger than 10% of Blue even make sense in the powerscale presented. Goku going SSJ3 would then surpass SSJB and that's silly.

My argument isn't that SSJ surpasses 10% of SSBlue, it's that they must be in the same realm of power. Even Vados states that the battle between Hit and SSJ Goku would come down to stamina which should put them around the same level, this means 10% of SSBlue must also be around there since if it was considerably stronger Vegeta would have shortened Hit's timeskip. All of this suggests Hit, Weakened Vegeta & SSJ Goku are in the same league and SSGod Goku vastly outclasses all of them. Also, Toyo probably didn't know Toriyama would bring back SSJ2 and SSJ3.

[LightBing]

My argument isn't that SSJ surpasses 10% of SSBlue, it's that they must be in the same realm of power. Even Vados states that the battle between Hit and SSJ Goku would come down to stamina which should put them around the same level, this means 10% of SSBlue must also be around there since if it was considerably stronger Vegeta would have shortened Hit's timeskip. All of this suggests Hit, Weakened Vegeta & SSJ Goku are in the same league and SSGod Goku vastly outclasses all of them. Also, Toyo probably didn't know Toriyama would bring back SSJ2 and SSJ3.

She only pointed out Hit wasn't losing stamina. Goku never had a shot at winning as a SSJ. You're greatly overestimating how well Goku did, please look at the previous posts to see why this is the case.

You're assumption regarding Vegeta is based on performance comparison but all of them are below the effective timeskip threshold. We can't actually determine how strong they are compared to each other. But we know that logically SSJ Goku shouldn't be close to 10% SSJB Vegeta.
The same way I don't see anyone say Base Goku > 10% SSJB Vegeta even when the first seems to be stronger based on visual.

It's not impossible but at this point the Future Trunks Arc shouldn't have been that far away. I remember that the anime was ahead of the manga at this point. Even so, future material takes precedence.

Anyway agree to disagree.

[Bullza]

Enough so that Super Saiyan God's punches can be blocked by a finger from Jiren but Super Saiyan Blue can send him flying through some metal rocks.

I couldn't put a number on it but it's pretty significant.

[Steven Bloodriver]

I know there's no exact multiplier for the SSJ God transformation. But what would the boost for SSJ Blue from SSJ God be?

In the manga there's an statement during the U6 arc that SSJ God Goku is stronger than a less than 10% SSJ Blue Vegeta. So is the SSJ Blue 10 times stronger than SSJ God? Or is it less, maybe 5 times stronger or something like that?

The difference in power between the Super Saiyan God and the Super Saiyan Blue forms is perhaps even greater than the difference in power between the Super Saiyan and the Super Saiyan 4 forms, as Super Saiyan God would allow it's user to lay the smack down on even Omega Shenron from Dragon Ball GT. While Super Saiyan Blue would allow it's user to molly-whop Super Saiyan 4 Full-Power Broly Dark from Super Dragon Ball Heroes. An enemy arguably even stronger than Omega Shenron himself. With Super Saiyan needing to be mastered for probably years to come close to the gap it has with Super Saiyan 2, let alone with Super Saiyan God, and Super Saiyan 4 needing to be mastered to absolute perfection to be of use against the main villains of Dragon Ball Super, who rival Super Saiyan Blue without even trying, not to mention, the likes of Jiren and Legendary Super Saiyan 2 Kefla being able to one-hit kill Super Saiyan Blue: 20X Kaioken Goku and force Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta from the Tournament of Power Saga to use the Fusion Dance to become Gogeta Blue or the Potara Earrings to become Vegito Blue.

As Jiren the Grey and Kefla the Potara Fusion of Kale and Caulifla are likely strong enough to actually kill Merged Zamasu (Half-Corrupted Form). Hell, for all we know, Super Saiyan God could be more than a match for any known transformation of Merged Zamasu, Jiren, and Kefla, if it could reach an ascension like with Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Blue possibly being capable of having Ascended Super Saiyan and Ascended Super Saiyan Blue respectively if having trained enough.

[Dragon Ball Gus]

I'd say SSG is 15x stronger than SSJ3, and SSB is 1.5x stronger than SSG.

[ahill1]

It's stated Hit can only stop people below or close to his level... the way I see it, anyone weaker than Hit is within manageable parameters to his technique and can be stopped by such, and someone who's equal or slightly stronger than him can also be stopped/frozen by his technique, so long as they are still on his level. Hit could stop SSJG Goku's power, at least he was fully confident he would be able to do such, yethe couldn't stop SSJB Goku at all, denoting that SSJB is considerably stronger than God...

That's also implied in the fight against Black, where this latter stated Vegeta's speed suddenly skyrockted when he turned into Blue, and his strength also probably compliments his power given that Black was being visibly hurt by such. But I think a 1.5x gap between both forms is fitting, honestly.


Hit (initial) : 7.2
Goku SSJ : 7.5
Vegeta SSJB [less than 10%] : 8
Goku SSJ2 : 15
Goku SSJ3 : 30
Goku SSJG : 66
Hit (full power) : 66
Goku SSJB : 100


That'd be my numerical representation of the situation.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

I know there's no exact multiplier for the SSJ God transformation. But what would the boost for SSJ Blue from SSJ God be?

In the manga there's an statement during the U6 arc that SSJ God Goku is stronger than a less than 10% SSJ Blue Vegeta. So is the SSJ Blue 10 times stronger than SSJ God? Or is it less, maybe 5 times stronger or something like that?

SS Blue being 10x stronger than SS God in the Super manga is probably in line with Toriyama's comments on him saying that he felt that SS is 10x stronger than Base while drawing the original manga. Of course, from what's been shown in the anime and databooks, however, that doesn't make a lot of sense.

[theherodjl]

Its ultimately meaningless, multipliers are merely references for power level discussions. If you ask how much power they can pull out in different situations then SSJB can be only 1% stronger than SSJG or it can be several times stronger, each scenario has them requiring a varying degree of individual effort against the kind of opponent.
We don't all truly believe that Krillin & #18 can take on ToP SSJB Goku, do we? Or that Ultimate Gohan can push Goku to use the same power stacked with Kaio-ken that he used on Merged Zamasu?

[Hugo Boss]

My theory is that Blue is merely an upgrade from Super Saiyan God, which is far above the previous Super Saiyan forms. This way I can more or less keep consistence with the idea that Super Saiyan God is not too distant from the Gods of Destruction.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Anywhere from 1.000000000001 to 99999999999999999 times stronger.

[DB▪Magnum-Expert]

I know there's no exact multiplier for the SSJ God transformation. But what would the boost for SSJ Blue from SSJ God be?

In the manga there's an statement during the U6 arc that SSJ God Goku is stronger than a less than 10% SSJ Blue Vegeta. So is the SSJ Blue 10 times stronger than SSJ God? Or is it less, maybe 5 times stronger or something like that?

Anime-Wise, it's far higher than SsjG, to the point, that we can claim it more than hundreds of times SsjG by far

[Baggie_Saiyan]

The fight against Jiren sums it up. SSG just made Jiren move his finger but SSGSS made Jiren move his actual body.

[SoulSurj]

In the anime ssjb is 50x ssjg because Goku and Vegeta had already mastered it since the RoF arc and during that arc Goku stated the ssjb is when a saiyan with the power of ssjg turns ssj. In other words if you take a ssjg and turn ssj (50x base) the result will be ssjgssj, aka ssjb. They even make the forms similar to the characters' base and ssj forms to give a clearer idea.

Scaling wise it would go...

Ssjg= 1
Ssjb= 50
Ssjb Kaioken= 100
Ssjb Kaioken x10= 500

Base Hit= 1
Time skip (.1 seconds)= 10
(.2 seconds)= 50
(.5 seconds)= 100
(2.5 seconds)= 500

Vegeta with most of his stamina gone was only at about 1%

In the manga it's a bit different because Goku and Vegeta didn't master it until after Merged Zamasu appeared so the amount of power they could use at the time was only about 10x ssjg, but overall it's still 50x ssjg once it's mastered.

Scaling wise it would go...

Ssjg= 1
Ssjb=10

Base Hit (suppressed)= .5
(Time skip)= 5
Base Hit (full power)= 1
Time skip= 10

Once again, Vegeta is only at 1% of ssjb's full power (.5 on the scale) but because it wasn't mastered he only went below 10% of the usual amount of power he could access. That's why Hit's time skip worked more effectively but he had to raise his power against Goku.

[Appers]

I'm not sure exactly how the scaling would work, but blue must be a pretty considerable increase if Jiren decided that he couldn't keep blocking Goku's attacks with one finger anymore and actually started moving and attacking.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

Not much stronger than SSJ God. Also keep in mind it's a little bit obvious now that the multipliers are all out of whack (much lower than in DBZ). No matter how many times I figure it out, SSB is maybe only 2x stronger than SSG if even that. And I'm not even sure if Kaioken is following any sort of set multipliers at this point.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

I'm not sure exactly how the scaling would work, but blue must be a pretty considerable increase if Jiren decided that he couldn't keep blocking Goku's attacks with one finger anymore and actually started moving and attacking.

There have been a few times in the series we have situations like this but the power scaling is likely closer than some think. And there is one time I recall in Yu Yu Hakusho when Toguro claimed he had more power "in his thumb than in Yusuke's entire body" yet he's barely even twice as strong (maybe just an exaggerated example of concentrating energy into one point?). Plus if I recall correctly Mercenary Tao in DB killed General Blue with his freaking tongue which is incredibly hilarious. That would be like saying Mercenary Tao is more than a thousand times stronger.

[SoulSurj]

Not much stronger than SSJ God. Also keep in mind it's a little bit obvious now that the multipliers are all out of whack (much lower than in DBZ). No matter how many times I figure it out, SSB is maybe only 2x stronger than SSG if even that. And I'm not even sure if Kaioken is following any sort of set multipliers at this point.

It's obviously not 2. It's 50x in the anime.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Not much stronger than SSJ God. Also keep in mind it's a little bit obvious now that the multipliers are all out of whack (much lower than in DBZ). No matter how many times I figure it out, SSB is maybe only 2x stronger than SSG if even that. And I'm not even sure if Kaioken is following any sort of set multipliers at this point.

It's obviously not 2. It's 50x in the anime.

I don't think so. Goku feels that he needs to use the Kaio-ken, and indeed we see that he does, though at what level is unknown.

50 times is extremely exaggerated and severely bloats the scale more than necessary.

2-10 times is more than satisfactory, especially on the lower end of this range. SSG isn't made completely worthless, and Kaio-ken becomes the more significant powerup.

[SoulSurj]

Not much stronger than SSJ God. Also keep in mind it's a little bit obvious now that the multipliers are all out of whack (much lower than in DBZ). No matter how many times I figure it out, SSB is maybe only 2x stronger than SSG if even that. And I'm not even sure if Kaioken is following any sort of set multipliers at this point.

It's obviously not 2. It's 50x in the anime.

I don't think so. Goku feels that he needs to use the Kaio-ken, and indeed we see that he does, though at what level is unknown.

50 times is extremely exaggerated and severely bloats the scale more than necessary.

2-10 times is more than satisfactory, especially on the lower end of this range. SSG isn't made completely worthless, and Kaio-ken becomes the more significant powerup.

You do realize that ssjb is just a ssjg that turns ssj right? That's why it's 50. Ssj is 50x base and ssjg acts as the base of ssjb, so it's 50x ssjg. Goku's original plan was to power up ssjb with Kaioken because he wanted to use it against Beerus but since there's tons of people who are above ssjb level he uses it against them. In the manga it's about 10x ssjg because the manga changes the multipliers.