(Discussion) Vegeta's new form - A few details

[sintzu]

Does anyone else think that the form he has in the ending isn't the one we'll get in 123 ?

Lets fight


No. look the ending has to be either UI Goku vs Jiren or UI Goku and Vegeta vs Jiren. Gohan is far below Toppo already and after his powerup,Gohan is the weakest of the fighters left [17 going next episode]. Now, remember Vegeta GOT his big fight, but not his Big win. Him beating a STRONGER Toppo will be his defining moment of the Tournament.

So, why hold back at Vegeta's new form for a few weeks if he's not getting UIO anyway?

I'm talking about the ending song, could the form he has while standing with Goku be something even stronger and different from what he'll use next week ?

[Professor Freeza]

Does anyone else think that the form he has in the ending isn't the one we'll get in 123 ?

Lets fight


No. look the ending has to be either UI Goku vs Jiren or UI Goku and Vegeta vs Jiren. Gohan is far below Toppo already and after his powerup,Gohan is the weakest of the fighters left [17 going next episode]. Now, remember Vegeta GOT his big fight, but not his Big win. Him beating a STRONGER Toppo will be his defining moment of the Tournament.

So, why hold back at Vegeta's new form for a few weeks if he's not getting UIO anyway?

I'm talking about the ending song, could the form he has while standing with Goku be something even stronger and different from what he'll use next week ?

i know what you are talking about. Like i said, why wait to pull the trigger? Whenever anyone gains a new form in the series, its like already mastered. Pre ROsat Vegeta and trunks didnt seem to have any problem spamming SSj. The only exception is SSj3.

So, why would Toei hold back the full length of the new form for a few more days? Not even UIO got that treatment.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Well, according to the synopsis of EP 124, even with the combined attacks of Goku and Vegeta, they will hardly harm Jiren. So we know that only this form beyond Blue will not be enough.

In the title of EP 126 it is said '' Surpass even a God! Vegeta's life - risking blow, so apparently he's also getting another power up here.
So in that case, it would make more sense for the Blue form with pupils to be shown on EP 126 (and have something related to the UI, after all, it is being said for him to surpass a god and UI Goku is on his side in the ending), since in EP 123 probably the form beyond Blue will serve to match Vegeta to the Blue Kaioken and not to defeat Jiren

[KayDash]

Super Saiyan Royal Blue confirmed.

[MKCSTEALTH]

Supposedly, the Japanese fanbase has been calling the form "Ultra Instinct Blue"

And I believe in the new outro, during the last shot Vegeta appears to be in the form and his pupils look slightly different.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Lets fight


No. look the ending has to be either UI Goku vs Jiren or UI Goku and Vegeta vs Jiren. Gohan is far below Toppo already and after his powerup,Gohan is the weakest of the fighters left [17 going next episode]. Now, remember Vegeta GOT his big fight, but not his Big win. Him beating a STRONGER Toppo will be his defining moment of the Tournament.

So, why hold back at Vegeta's new form for a few weeks if he's not getting UIO anyway?

I'm talking about the ending song, could the form he has while standing with Goku be something even stronger and different from what he'll use next week ?

i know what you are talking about. Like i said, why wait to pull the trigger? Whenever anyone gains a new form in the series, its like already mastered. Pre ROsat Vegeta and trunks didnt seem to have any problem spamming SSj. The only exception is SSj3.

So, why would Toei hold back the full length of the new form for a few more days? Not even UIO got that treatment.

In the 8th ED Boo was shown sleeping, and a month later we saw that this really materialized.

So it is possible that this new form of Vegeta shown in the ED will only appear on EP 126 (which will be released about a month after EP 122)

[Professor Freeza]

I'm talking about the ending song, could the form he has while standing with Goku be something even stronger and different from what he'll use next week ?

i know what you are talking about. Like i said, why wait to pull the trigger? Whenever anyone gains a new form in the series, its like already mastered. Pre ROsat Vegeta and trunks didnt seem to have any problem spamming SSj. The only exception is SSj3.

So, why would Toei hold back the full length of the new form for a few more days? Not even UIO got that treatment.

In the 8th ED Boo was shown sleeping, and a month later we saw that this really materialized.

So it is possible that this new form of Vegeta shown in the ED will only appear on EP 126 (which will be released about a month after EP 122)

In the one after that we had the bad elimination list where Goku and Gohan were the last 2, vegeta was gonna be eliminated at 3, remember?

[TheSaiyanGod]

i know what you are talking about. Like i said, why wait to pull the trigger? Whenever anyone gains a new form in the series, its like already mastered. Pre ROsat Vegeta and trunks didnt seem to have any problem spamming SSj. The only exception is SSj3.

So, why would Toei hold back the full length of the new form for a few more days? Not even UIO got that treatment.

In the 8th ED Boo was shown sleeping, and a month later we saw that this really materialized.

So it is possible that this new form of Vegeta shown in the ED will only appear on EP 126 (which will be released about a month after EP 122)

In the one after that we had the bad elimination list where Goku and Gohan were the last 2, vegeta was gonna be eliminated at 3, remember?

But this ED just showed all the warriors together. The fandom speculated that this would be the U7 team's elimination order (and we saw later that this speculation was indeed wrong).

And looking at this image of Vegeta and Goku together in the preview, it seems that Vegeta with the '' new Blue '' does not really have the pupils we saw in the ED

[spoiler][/spoiler]

So it looks like we're still going to see the SSB with UI pupils in the following episodes (I believe it's just 126, because of the title)

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

It's quite likely just another level of SSj Blue. We've speculated whether it's possible, turns out it might be. Probably meant to be an equalizer for Vegeta, because Goku was given KKx20. Ultra Instinct is going to be another step for Vegeta.

I hope this will be addressed as the "true" Super Saiyan Blue. I see it in a similar way to Super Saiyan 2, which was the proper way to surpass Super Saiyan.
The fact this transformation is actually blue is a great touch, and the aura definitely looks different. I could see Vegeta having the offensive Ultra Instinct in this form, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is just an increase of power which puts Vegeta on par with the Kaioken x20 of Goku.

Aside from the whole "offensive UI" thing, agree fully with these posts.

And regarding this debate about Vegeta's pupils... remember when people seriously thought that UI Goku had cat-like pupils? I think, just like that scenario, we should wait until it's debut in the episode before judging any further.

I'd like to see Vegeta exhibit at least one trait that's new in this form aside from it being a stronger form with a darker shade of blue and having pupils (which I actually like over regular SSB, btw). For me personally, particularly him having the ability to grow stronger during battle similar to Hit (through adaptability/improvement), Kaioken (through multiplication/amplification - though this is the only method that has a limit to it), Black Rose (through pain) or UI (passively through fighting a stronger enemy).

I could also see the form being between KKx20 SSB Goku and UI Goku in terms of power if this is Vegeta's "final form" in the series.

[shadowfox87]

As pointed out in the OP, the sparkles are what stands out to me in Vegeta's new form. Everyone's talking about the darker shade of blue, but I don't much care about that. I don't even care about the pupils. Both can just be animation choices.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Where have we seen sparkles before?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Vegeta's new form isn't SSB 2. SSB is SSJ1 with the power of SSG. SSB 2 would be SSJ2 with the power of SSG. The sparkles come from SSG. When fully utilizing the power of SSG, the god ki is shown as sparkles. Vegeta has essentially mastered SSB. This is the anime's way of showing that.

Note that this is very different from Mastered SSB in the manga. In the manga, Mastered means controling the god ki so that there isn't any blue aura or leakage of ki.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

There are no sparkles shown in the Mastered SSB form in the manga. In fact, there isn't any aura shown. The point of Mastered SSB was to focus all your ki inside your body so that nothing leaks out. The anime hasn't even shown us SSG Vegeta either.

The manga never gave Goku Kaioken because it is a technique that is exclusive to Goku. No matter what Vegeta does, Goku can always use it to stack on top. For this reason, I believe that the anime has employed their own variation of Mastered SSB and given it to Vegeta with no plans to ever give it to Goku, making this form exclusive to Vegeta. It is NOT Ultra Instinct. When Vegeta dodged Jiren's punches, that was because he studied Jiren's movements. People have been dodging moves since DB, that doesn't mean they have UI. The ability of UI is to dodge instinctively by reacting not by studying movements beforehand.

I theorize that this form will be as strong as Goku's SSB+Kaioken.

[RedShift]

When I saw this shot in the NEP, my first impression was that it was (visually speaking) an upgraded SSjB, with some aesthetic changes barrowed from the old SSj Grade 2 that was used back in the Cell Saga. Vegeta's hair seems to be spikier but not as sharply defined as SSj2 typically it, while his arm seems slightly bulky compared to it's usual proportion. That size difference could just come from whomever is animating that particular scene, but it does come across to me as Something like SSjB Grade 2.

We'll have to see. I hope it put him on par with SSjBKKx20 Goku. But knowing Bandai it'll be much stronger than that, but still significantly weaker than Goku UI.

[BlueBasilisk]

Plus Goku talks about going beyond SSGSS that has different connotations to mastering something. Ie Goku and Gohan mastered SS but Gohan went beyond that into SS2 vs Cell.

I don't think it'll be rage induced, probably similar to hoe Goku unlocked UI ie survival instinct.

I wonder if it'll relate to what Jiren said this past episode? About Vegeta fighting selfishly. He's fighting for more than just himself. He has his wife, his children, the life of his student and the future of his people... He might be on the brink of another "MY BULMA" moment, or have some kind of epiphany when he really contemplates all the weight he's carrying on his shoulders right now.

[xm0c]

Really hope this doesn't turn out to be just a different way SSB Vegeta is animated. It feels like so long ago Vegeta got his own form, and even if it's just master SSB, I'd be fine. I think Goku only got that form in the manga anyway.

[Black Hawk]

When I saw this shot in the NEP, my first impression was that it was (visually speaking) an upgraded SSjB, with some aesthetic changes barrowed from the old SSj Grade 2 that was used back in the Cell Saga. Vegeta's hair seems to be spikier but not as sharply defined as SSj2 typically it, while his arm seems slightly bulky compared to it's usual proportion. That size difference could just come from whomever is animating that particular scene, but it does come across to me as Something like SSjB Grade 2.

I thought of something similar, on that note; I see advancing SSJ1 as a branched pathway. 1. Either power up SSJ1, outputting more and more energy, pushing it to its limits, yet still technically remaining a SSJ1 (SSJ1 Grade 2 and SSJ1 Grade 3), sort like filling up a balloon even to the point that it reaches its full capacity, or 2. Break through SSJ1's limits and physically mutate the form into another separate form (SSJ2, its upgrades, and SSJ3), sort of like replacing a balloon with another balloon that was manufactured to have a greater capacity than the previous one.

If stacking SSJ2, its upgrades, and/or SSJ3 on top of SSJ Blue could yield any positive results, surely it would already have been done long ago; for that reason, I think it is reasonable to conclude that mutating SSJ Blue would not do any good; however, we don't yet know if outputting more and more of SSJ Blue's energy without mutating it could accomplish anything positive, and perhaps this could be what Vegeta's new form is. After all, Daizenshū 2 states that Grade 2 surpasses SSJ1 in both power and speed; it is only Grade 3 that suffers a speed decline from bulky muscles. With that in mind, Vegeta could potentially push SSJ Blue to its limits as a SSJ Blue Grade 2 of sorts.

A stretch, probably, but just a thought.

[emperior]

This could also be the proper “Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan” in the anime. The name was actually never used and Blue was explained as being a Super Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God and it seems to be a 2x, at max 10x increase over SSG. This new Vegeta’s form could be 50x SSG, which would also explain why Vegeta has pupils and a different aura.

[shadowfox87]

I thought of something similar, on that note; I see advancing SSJ1 as a branched pathway. 1. Either power up SSJ1, outputting more and more energy, pushing it to its limits, yet still technically remaining a SSJ1 (SSJ1 Grade 2 and SSJ1 Grade 3), sort like filling up a balloon even to the point that it reaches its full capacity, or 2. Break through SSJ1's limits and physically mutate the form into another separate form (SSJ2, its upgrades, and SSJ3), sort of like replacing a balloon with another balloon that was manufactured to have a greater capacity than the previous one.

If stacking SSJ2, its upgrades, and/or SSJ3 on top of SSJ Blue could yield any positive results, surely it would already have been done long ago; for that reason, I think it is reasonable to conclude that mutating SSJ Blue would not do any good; however, we don't yet know if outputting more and more of SSJ Blue's energy without mutating it could accomplish anything positive, and perhaps this could be what Vegeta's new form is. After all, Daizenshū 2 states that Grade 2 surpasses SSJ1 in both power and speed; it is only Grade 3 that suffers a speed decline from bulky muscles. With that in mind, Vegeta could potentially push SSJ Blue to its limits as a SSJ Blue Grade 2 of sorts.

A stretch, probably, but just a thought.

It's a good thought. All I can say is that the sparkles in this new form imply that there is more utilization of God Ki, given that these sparkles are something we see in SSG. The grade 2 SSJ form may have been superior in power and speed, but it ate up the stamina fast. I think this is the anime's way to give Vegeta something exclusive that Goku doesn't have. It is a variation of Mastered SSB. In the manga, Goku wasn't given Kaioken so that Vegeta could reach the same forms as him. This is most likely the anime's fix to this so that Vegeta can catch up. I bet in the manga, the same scene will show Goku and Vegeta in Mastered SSB fighting Jiren.

[Black Hawk]

It's a good thought. All I can say is that the sparkles in this new form imply that there is more utilization of God Ki, given that these sparkles are something we see in SSG. The grade 2 SSJ form may have been superior in power and speed, but it ate up the stamina fast. I think this is the anime's way to give Vegeta something exclusive that Goku doesn't have. It is a variation of Mastered SSB. In the manga, Goku wasn't given Kaioken so that Vegeta could reach the same forms as him. This is most likely the anime's fix to this so that Vegeta can catch up. I bet in the manga, the same scene will show Goku and Vegeta in Mastered SSB fighting Jiren.

In that regard, I wonder how the manga will handle their advancement against Jiren as the tournament draws closer to its conclusion; since the Kaiōken isn't present, there isn't much need to compensate Vegeta specifically. Perhaps Gokū and Vegeta will both acquire either the Ultra Instinct Omen or the Ultra Instinct Blue with no differentiation between them, though I could see the manga giving Gokū the UI Omen and Vegeta the UI Blue depending on whether or not UI Blue is...well, UI Blue to start with. Saturday certainly can't come quickly enough!

[TheSaiyanGod]

As pointed out in the OP, the sparkles are what stands out to me in Vegeta's new form. Everyone's talking about the darker shade of blue, but I don't much care about that. I don't even care about the pupils. Both can just be animation choices.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

Where have we seen sparkles before?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Vegeta's new form isn't SSB 2. SSB is SSJ1 with the power of SSG. SSB 2 would be SSJ2 with the power of SSG. The sparkles come from SSG. When fully utilizing the power of SSG, the god ki is shown as sparkles. Vegeta has essentially mastered SSB. This is the anime's way of showing that.

Note that this is very different from Mastered SSB in the manga. In the manga, Mastered means controling the god ki so that there isn't any blue aura or leakage of ki.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

There are no sparkles shown in the Mastered SSB form in the manga. In fact, there isn't any aura shown. The point of Mastered SSB was to focus all your ki inside your body so that nothing leaks out. The anime hasn't even shown us SSG Vegeta either.

The manga never gave Goku Kaioken because it is a technique that is exclusive to Goku. No matter what Vegeta does, Goku can always use it to stack on top. For this reason, I believe that the anime has employed their own variation of Mastered SSB and given it to Vegeta with no plans to ever give it to Goku, making this form exclusive to Vegeta. It is NOT Ultra Instinct. When Vegeta dodged Jiren's punches, that was because he studied Jiren's movements. People have been dodging moves since DB, that doesn't mean they have UI. The ability of UI is to dodge instinctively by reacting not by studying movements beforehand.

I theorize that this form will be as strong as Goku's SSB+Kaioken.

The images you posted are not working. Could you post again?

And I doubt pupils are just the choice of animation. Vegeta SSB never had pupils in all appearances in that form. In fact, even the color of your eyes in ED is different as we see in the image below.Vegeta's eyes on ED have the same shade of UI Goku's eyes, as well as stronger blue colors and the fact that he stands out from his side at the end of the ED.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Probably the transformation we will see in EP 123 will not be the '' new form with pupils '' we see in ED, mainly because it does not really have pupils.
I believe she will appear on EP'126

It's quite likely just another level of SSj Blue. We've speculated whether it's possible, turns out it might be. Probably meant to be an equalizer for Vegeta, because Goku was given KKx20. Ultra Instinct is going to be another step for Vegeta.

I hope this will be addressed as the "true" Super Saiyan Blue. I see it in a similar way to Super Saiyan 2, which was the proper way to surpass Super Saiyan.
The fact this transformation is actually blue is a great touch, and the aura definitely looks different. I could see Vegeta having the offensive Ultra Instinct in this form, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is just an increase of power which puts Vegeta on par with the Kaioken x20 of Goku.

Aside from the whole "offensive UI" thing, agree fully with these posts.

And regarding this debate about Vegeta's pupils... remember when people seriously thought that UI Goku had cat-like pupils? I think, just like that scenario, we should wait until it's debut in the episode before judging any further.

I'd like to see Vegeta exhibit at least one trait that's new in this form aside from it being a stronger form with a darker shade of blue and having pupils (which I actually like over regular SSB, btw). For me personally, particularly him having the ability to grow stronger during battle similar to Hit (through adaptability/improvement), Kaioken (through multiplication/amplification - though this is the only method that has a limit to it), Black Rose (through pain) or UI (passively through fighting a stronger enemy).

I could also see the form being between KKx20 SSB Goku and UI Goku in terms of power if this is Vegeta's "final form" in the series.

Yes, but although UI Goku's pupils look like those of a cat in promotional images (actually, that was not so clear because the image did not give us a good view of the new form), he continued to have pupils, so I find it difficult for them have placed Vegeta SSB with pupils (with the same shade of UI Goku's eyes) for nothing.

But I would also very much like that this possible new form of vegeta had the ability to constantly evolve in battle. This is perfect for the Saiyans and for Vegeta himself, who trains hard. That would help him get stronger much faster.

[shadowfox87]

The images you posted are not working. Could you post again?

Hmm, they work for me. I can see your images as well. Maybe refresh your browser. The pics were essentially showing the sparkles. Then showing SSG Vegeta from the manga who has those sparkles, implying that the next level of SSB is utilizing more god ki. The next images are Mastered SSB from the manga which looks different since there are no auras. My main point was to show that it isn't SSB 2 or any form of UI. It's the anime's variation of mastered ssb or a higher grade of SSB.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

It's quite likely just another level of SSj Blue. We've speculated whether it's possible, turns out it might be. Probably meant to be an equalizer for Vegeta, because Goku was given KKx20. Ultra Instinct is going to be another step for Vegeta.

I hope this will be addressed as the "true" Super Saiyan Blue. I see it in a similar way to Super Saiyan 2, which was the proper way to surpass Super Saiyan.
The fact this transformation is actually blue is a great touch, and the aura definitely looks different. I could see Vegeta having the offensive Ultra Instinct in this form, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is just an increase of power which puts Vegeta on par with the Kaioken x20 of Goku.

Aside from the whole "offensive UI" thing, agree fully with these posts.

And regarding this debate about Vegeta's pupils... remember when people seriously thought that UI Goku had cat-like pupils? I think, just like that scenario, we should wait until it's debut in the episode before judging any further.

I'd like to see Vegeta exhibit at least one trait that's new in this form aside from it being a stronger form with a darker shade of blue and having pupils (which I actually like over regular SSB, btw). For me personally, particularly him having the ability to grow stronger during battle similar to Hit (through adaptability/improvement), Kaioken (through multiplication/amplification - though this is the only method that has a limit to it), Black Rose (through pain) or UI (passively through fighting a stronger enemy).

I could also see the form being between KKx20 SSB Goku and UI Goku in terms of power if this is Vegeta's "final form" in the series.

Yes, but although UI Goku's pupils look like those of a cat in promotional images (actually, that was not so clear because the image did not give us a good view of the new form), he continued to have pupils, so I find it difficult for them have placed Vegeta SSB with pupils (with the same shade of UI Goku's eyes) for nothing.

But I would also very much like that this possible new form of vegeta had the ability to constantly evolve in battle. This is perfect for the Saiyans and for Vegeta himself, who trains hard. That would help him get stronger much faster.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you fully on Vegeta having pupils in his new form, I just believe it’s best until we see the episode since there are going to be those that are convinced he doesn’t have pupils, just like there were those who were convinced UI Goku had cat-eyes.

It’s honestly nice to see Vegeta finally get a form different than anything Goku has achieved though.