Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Jackalope89
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:36 pm

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by Jackalope89 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:30 pm

Michsi wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
Michsi wrote:Probably because they were already familiar with it. Muten Roshi wasn't their first martial arts teacher. Goku learned the basics from his grandfather, Krillin from his time at the temple. By the time they got to Muten Roshi, they should've already known about something that is so intrinsic to martial arts.
I disagree, I felt that Goku performing the Kamehameha on the car was seen as extraordinary, as was Krillin's quick use of it in the 22nd Tournament with no practice. Roshi taking 50 years to master I always interpreted as being because it fires your ki as a massive energy blast.
As I said, ki doesn't mean just energy blast, visible aura when powering up or being able to fly, it's just means 'life force' and its a key concept of martial arts, even in the DB world. The most capable fighters are able to produce enough of it that it can shoot out of their bodies, but the knowledge of ki is not supposed to be exclusive to them. It's basic martial art philosophy, one that Krillin and Goku should've already been familiar with by the time they get to Muten Roshi. As Gohan explained, every living being has ki - had Videl studied martial arts, she would've known this already.
Except, you're equating ki use to being a martial artist. When about the only schools in Dragon Ball shown to actually use Ki are the Turtle School and Crane School, the latter of which seems to have become defunct, and Roshi rarely took on students.

The definition of "martial artist" is someone that practices a form of martial arts. Which Videl does. She just didn't learn in a school that had the teaching of Ki in it. At least not until Gohan taught her. Remember, even when Goku and Krillin were young and in the tournaments, their abilities were NOT common, yet most of the people competing would be classified as a martial artist.

Michsi
I Live Here
Posts: 4557
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by Michsi » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:44 am

Jackalope89 wrote:
Michsi wrote:
KBABZ wrote: I disagree, I felt that Goku performing the Kamehameha on the car was seen as extraordinary, as was Krillin's quick use of it in the 22nd Tournament with no practice. Roshi taking 50 years to master I always interpreted as being because it fires your ki as a massive energy blast.
As I said, ki doesn't mean just energy blast, visible aura when powering up or being able to fly, it's just means 'life force' and its a key concept of martial arts, even in the DB world. The most capable fighters are able to produce enough of it that it can shoot out of their bodies, but the knowledge of ki is not supposed to be exclusive to them. It's basic martial art philosophy, one that Krillin and Goku should've already been familiar with by the time they get to Muten Roshi. As Gohan explained, every living being has ki - had Videl studied martial arts, she would've known this already.
Except, you're equating ki use to being a martial artist. When about the only schools in Dragon Ball shown to actually use Ki are the Turtle School and Crane School, the latter of which seems to have become defunct, and Roshi rarely took on students.

The definition of "martial artist" is someone that practices a form of martial arts. Which Videl does. She just didn't learn in a school that had the teaching of Ki in it. At least not until Gohan taught her. Remember, even when Goku and Krillin were young and in the tournaments, their abilities were NOT common, yet most of the people competing would be classified as a martial artist.
If we're going to broaden the term beyond it's popular and most common used definition, then you could say she is a martial artist. But she is a self-taught one, and admirable as that may be given how strong she becomes and how fast she learns how to fly, she is still seen as an amateur. DBS has recently made the distinction between someone who simply has power and good fighting skills, and someone who is a true martial artist in Goku vs. Caulifla, so it's safe to say DB uses the definition of "combat practices that originated in eastern Asia" and for this fighting style, ki is a key concept.

User avatar
Jackalope89
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:36 pm

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by Jackalope89 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:32 pm

Caulifla is a "true" martial artist? She's powerful, but she seems more brawler with natural fighting talent than anything. Meanwhile Videl actually has trained in courses, is highly skilled, and is a previous Junior Martial Arts Champion.

You are really cutting corners to try and say Videl is not a martial artist.
"She doesn't use ki, so not a martial artist!" is probably the worst reason I have seen for such a statement. What makes a martial artist is that they train (obviously), grow their skills (when Gohan meets Videl, he says she's stronger than her father by that point), and to only use their skills to protect themselves and others from harm, not to abuse them (considering Videl devotes much of her time to helping the people of Satan City and working with the police).

Like it or not, Videl is as much of a martial artist as Chichi is, even being raised by a martial artist father like Chichi was.

User avatar
Xeogran
I Live Here
Posts: 3056
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 am
Contact:

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by Xeogran » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:57 am

KBABZ wrote:As of the End of Z, Pan is making her way to being a martial arts expert, but GT distanced her from that direction (although she does know a thing or two as seen in her fighting style). Maybe Super will have her keep the gi?
Kataphrut wrote:And then there's Pan, who had all the makings of being a legit martial artist with the power to back it up before GT ruined her.
Image
Image

GT didn't ruin her, your false imagination of her did. In her free time, Pan was shown to be practicing Martial Arts.

It's 2018, and people still inject their headcanons to prove a point :roll:

Michsi
I Live Here
Posts: 4557
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:10 pm

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by Michsi » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:16 am

Jackalope89 wrote:Caulifla is a "true" martial artist? She's powerful, but she seems more brawler with natural fighting talent than anything. Meanwhile Videl actually has trained in courses, is highly skilled, and is a previous Junior Martial Arts Champion.
.
That was the point I was trying to make, as in Super makes an in-universe distinction between Goku, the martial artist, and Caulifla, the brawler. In that comparison, the martial artists is considered the superior fighting style.
You are really cutting corners to try and say Videl is not a martial artist.
"She doesn't use ki, so not a martial artist!" is probably the worst reason I have seen for such a statement. What makes a martial artist is that they train (obviously), grow their skills (when Gohan meets Videl, he says she's stronger than her father by that point), and to only use their skills to protect themselves and others from harm, not to abuse them (considering Videl devotes much of her time to helping the people of Satan City and working with the police).
Again, it's not that she isn't using ki, it's that she doesn't know what that is. Ki doesn't appear suddenly when you reach a certain strength, every living thing has it, which is something someone with formal martial art training would've known. She is an impressive fighter, but I would not call her a martial artist in the popular sense of the world.

User avatar
floofychan333
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1377
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:03 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by floofychan333 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:20 pm

Smilodon wrote:
floofychan333 wrote:Aren't Videl and Android 18 stronger than Chi-Chi?
Chi Chi would destroy Videl easily...Videl is durable and can fly, but Chi Chi has the Senin style. You can't compare.
A18 is in another level, Chi Chi is like a worm against A18.
For some reason I doubt Chi-Chi would stand a chance against Spopovich or Mr Satan...
"All of you. All of you must have KILL all the SEASONS!" -Dough (Tenshinhan), Speedy Dub of Movie 9.

"My opinion of Norihito's Sumitomo's new score is... well, very mixed. The stuff that's good is pretty darn good, but the stuff that's bad makes elevator music sound like Jerry freaking Goldsmith." -Kenisu

User avatar
Smilodon
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:04 pm

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by Smilodon » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:23 pm

floofychan333 wrote:

For some reason I doubt Chi-Chi would stand a chance against Spopovich or Mr Satan...
Majin Spopovich ok.... But Mr Satan? Are you fuckin' serious?
Chi Chi was able to sparring with kid Goku....She trained with his father (who can easily destroy Satan and Videl).
What can Mr Satan do?
Vados Sama!

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:27 pm

Smilodon wrote:
floofychan333 wrote:

For some reason I doubt Chi-Chi would stand a chance against Spopovich or Mr Satan...
Majin Spopovich ok.... But Mr Satan? Are you fuckin' serious?
Chi Chi was able to sparring with kid Goku....She trained with his father (who can easily destroy Satan and Videl).
What can Mr Satan do?
Bribe her.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

Ilikepictures-meh
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:11 pm

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by Ilikepictures-meh » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:42 pm

I'd disagree, because Pan exists and it's clear in all aspects that Pan grow up to be a martial artist

Dbzfan94
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5673
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:46 pm

floofychan333 wrote:
Smilodon wrote:
floofychan333 wrote:Aren't Videl and Android 18 stronger than Chi-Chi?
Chi Chi would destroy Videl easily...Videl is durable and can fly, but Chi Chi has the Senin style. You can't compare.
A18 is in another level, Chi Chi is like a worm against A18.
For some reason I doubt Chi-Chi would stand a chance against Spopovich or Mr Satan...
Spopovich I'll give you since he got his neck broken and literally pulled it back into place.

But Mr. Satan?? No freakin' way. Anyone from the 23rd WT would trash Mr. Satan.

kn83
Banned
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by kn83 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:54 pm

Everyone seems to be forgetting about Vados and her sisters. Not only is she the martial arts master of Champa (as the angels are the teachers of the Gods of Destruction), she is also the most powerful and skilled female character in the franchise.

User avatar
Smilodon
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:04 pm

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by Smilodon » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:09 pm

kn83 wrote:Everyone seems to be forgetting about Vados and her sisters. Not only is she the martial arts master of Champa (as the angels are the teachers of the Gods of Destruction), she is also the most powerful and skilled female character in the franchise.
I never forget Vados.
She is for sure the strongest female, and beside Daishinkan, she is probably the 2nd strongest being in all universes.
She trained Whis or she defeated him 1000 years ago and she challenged him and he declined.
Vados and Whis are the tallest angels, probably the oldest one...And they always know everything in all fights...We saw Marcarita in doubt when Jiren was fighting Hit for example. And angels like Cukatail who seems to know absolutely nothing.
Vados Sama!

User avatar
floofychan333
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1377
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:03 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by floofychan333 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:45 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
floofychan333 wrote:
Smilodon wrote: Chi Chi would destroy Videl easily...Videl is durable and can fly, but Chi Chi has the Senin style. You can't compare.
A18 is in another level, Chi Chi is like a worm against A18.
For some reason I doubt Chi-Chi would stand a chance against Spopovich or Mr Satan...
Spopovich I'll give you since he got his neck broken and literally pulled it back into place.

But Mr. Satan?? No freakin' way. Anyone from the 23rd WT would trash Mr. Satan.
I don't think Mr Satan's that weak. In his early days in the tournament he would've had to work through the other fighters to get to where he is now. Chi-Chi shouldn't be lumped in with superhumans, an actual god, and a couple OP aliens in terms of strength. Plus, I don't see why Mr Satan couldn't have defeated Cyborg Tao. I mean, Mr Satan's an idiot, but he has to at least be sort of strong.
Smilodon wrote:
floofychan333 wrote:

For some reason I doubt Chi-Chi would stand a chance against Spopovich or Mr Satan...
Chi Chi was able to sparring with kid Goku....She trained with his father (who can easily destroy Satan and Videl).
What can Mr Satan do?
I don't recall any instance in which Chi-Chi sparred with Goku. Also, there's no way Chi-Chi could ever have sparred with Bardock.
"All of you. All of you must have KILL all the SEASONS!" -Dough (Tenshinhan), Speedy Dub of Movie 9.

"My opinion of Norihito's Sumitomo's new score is... well, very mixed. The stuff that's good is pretty darn good, but the stuff that's bad makes elevator music sound like Jerry freaking Goldsmith." -Kenisu

User avatar
KBABZ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:07 am

floofychan333 wrote:
Smilodon wrote:
floofychan333 wrote:
For some reason I doubt Chi-Chi would stand a chance against Spopovich or Mr Satan...
Chi Chi was able to sparring with kid Goku....She trained with his father (who can easily destroy Satan and Videl).
What can Mr Satan do?
I don't recall any instance in which Chi-Chi sparred with Goku. Also, there's no way Chi-Chi could ever have sparred with Bardock.
Looks like a mis-spelling, pretty sure they meant to say Kid Goten rather than Goku.

User avatar
Smilodon
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:04 pm

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by Smilodon » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:37 am

Rewatch the episode when Gohan asked Chichi about date.... She remembed goku sparring with her.
https://youtu.be/M4zLoeG5a1I
Vados Sama!

User avatar
KBABZ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:35 am

Smilodon wrote:Rewatch the episode when Gohan asked Chichi about date.... She remembed goku sparring with her.
https://youtu.be/M4zLoeG5a1I
Huh, that scene was cut out of The Final Chapters (and boy howdy is that Kid Chi-Chi thing super creepy! And not just because the voices aren't nailed yet!).

I myself was thinking of this scene in TFC: https://youtu.be/yexVFGZSWtw?t=55

Dbzfan94
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5673
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:23 am

floofychan333 wrote:[quPlus, I don't see why Mr Satan couldn't have defeated Cyborg Tao. I mean, Mr Satan's an idiot, but he has to at least be sort of strong.
One Dodon Ray from Tao and Mr. Satan is dead tbh. But he'd win by some gag logic lol

User avatar
KBABZ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:30 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:
floofychan333 wrote:[quPlus, I don't see why Mr Satan couldn't have defeated Cyborg Tao. I mean, Mr Satan's an idiot, but he has to at least be sort of strong.
One Dodon Ray from Tao and Mr. Satan is dead tbh. But he'd win by some gag logic lol
Toriyama (I think) did outline a backstory where a young Mr. Satan had an encounter with Tao at a bar and his master was slain by him, which is where his cowardice comes from.

kn83
Banned
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by kn83 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:17 am

Jackalope89 wrote:Caulifla is a "true" martial artist? She's powerful, but she seems more brawler with natural fighting talent than anything. Meanwhile Videl actually has trained in courses, is highly skilled, and is a previous Junior Martial Arts Champion.

You are really cutting corners to try and say Videl is not a martial artist.
"She doesn't use ki, so not a martial artist!" is probably the worst reason I have seen for such a statement. What makes a martial artist is that they train (obviously), grow their skills (when Gohan meets Videl, he says she's stronger than her father by that point), and to only use their skills to protect themselves and others from harm, not to abuse them (considering Videl devotes much of her time to helping the people of Satan City and working with the police).

Like it or not, Videl is as much of a martial artist as Chichi is, even being raised by a martial artist father like Chichi was.
You don't need professional training to be martial artist. Many real life martial artists are self-taught and many forms of martial arts are self-created, not spinoffs of other forms. Both Bruce Lee and the entire MMA community encourage this.

kn83
Banned
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: Out of all the female characters, Chi-Chi is the only real martial artist?

Post by kn83 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:23 am

floofychan333 wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:
floofychan333 wrote:
For some reason I doubt Chi-Chi would stand a chance against Spopovich or Mr Satan...
Spopovich I'll give you since he got his neck broken and literally pulled it back into place.

But Mr. Satan?? No freakin' way. Anyone from the 23rd WT would trash Mr. Satan.
I don't think Mr Satan's that weak. In his early days in the tournament he would've had to work through the other fighters to get to where he is now. Chi-Chi shouldn't be lumped in with superhumans, an actual god, and a couple OP aliens in terms of strength. Plus, I don't see why Mr Satan couldn't have defeated Cyborg Tao. I mean, Mr Satan's an idiot, but he has to at least be sort of strong.
Smilodon wrote:
floofychan333 wrote:

For some reason I doubt Chi-Chi would stand a chance against Spopovich or Mr Satan...
Chi Chi was able to sparring with kid Goku....She trained with his father (who can easily destroy Satan and Videl).
What can Mr Satan do?
I don't recall any instance in which Chi-Chi sparred with Goku. Also, there's no way Chi-Chi could ever have sparred with Bardock.
Mr. Satan is peak-human level with a PL of 5, while ChiChi according to the Daizenshuu had a PL of around 106, which means she can use ki to some extent. She would one-shot Mr. Satan easily.

Post Reply