Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

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Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:48 pm

If someone else on Earth other than Goku and the other Z Fighters had encountered a revived King Piccolo (Youth Restored) and beat him, but without killing Piccolo and Kami, would it still have been considered an impressive feat for an Earthling to have accomplished?

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Re: Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

Post by Pantalones » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:12 pm

Considering that even among the Z-Fighters only maybe three of them (Goku and Piccolo of course, Tenshinhan most likely since he was able to keep up with Goku fighting at a level that seemed like it was at or above that of Daimao's in the 23rd Budokai) could've actually beaten him at this point without resorting to a Mafuuba seal or killing him in the process (like with a Kienzan)... I would say yeah, that's pretty impressive.

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Re: Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

Post by theherodjl » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:16 pm

Of course. Only 4 fighters on Earth prior to Raditz' arrival were stronger than the younger Daimao with the next closest being Tenshinhan, requiring 8 years of training to nearly match Daimao's level himself. It wasn't until after everyone trained at Kami's palace for the Saiyans is when Daimao's level was no longer a threat to the Z Senshi.
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Re: Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:01 pm

theherodjl wrote:Of course. Only 4 fighters on Earth prior to Raditz' arrival were stronger than the younger Daimao with the next closest being Tenshinhan, requiring 8 years of training to nearly match Daimao's level himself. It wasn't until after everyone trained at Kami's palace for the Saiyans is when Daimao's level was no longer a threat to the Z Senshi.
I think it would be 5 fighters (Goku, Piccolo, Kami, Popo and Tien), the reason Tien is, it's because he was faster than Goku with his weights, who is equal in speed to that of King Piccolo's, implying that even Tien could have defeated King Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai.

I agree though that anyone below them are not there yet, so I don't think Krillin and Yamcha would defeat King Piccolo neither in the 23rd Budokai or in BOZ, but they were actually close to him since they were the only ones who managed to see Weighted Goku and Tien's (suppressed) speed, both of which were equal to that of KP's, though given how fast Weighted Goku and Tien (suppressed) were for Krillin and Yamcha to the point the latter two were shocked by that then I would say they haven't reached King Piccolo level until Kami's training.

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Re: Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

Post by theherodjl » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:53 pm

dragonball0900 wrote:I think it would be 5 fighters (Goku, Piccolo, Kami, Popo and Tien), the reason Tien is, it's because he was faster than Goku with his weights, who is equal in speed to that of King Piccolo's, implying that even Tien could have defeated King Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai.

I agree though that anyone below them are not there yet, so I don't think Krillin and Yamcha would defeat King Piccolo neither in the 23rd Budokai or in BOZ, but they were actually close to him since they were the only ones who managed to see Weighted Goku and Tien's (suppressed) speed, both of which were equal to that of KP's, though given how fast Weighted Goku and Tien (suppressed) were for Krillin and Yamcha to the point the latter two were shocked by that then I would say they haven't reached King Piccolo level until Kami's training.
According to the power levels listed by the Daiz 7, Goku & Daimao were at 260 apiece at the King's palace while the first volume of the DBZ arc lists Tenshinhan as 250.
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Re: Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

Post by dragonball0900 » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:38 pm

theherodjl wrote:
dragonball0900 wrote:I think it would be 5 fighters (Goku, Piccolo, Kami, Popo and Tien), the reason Tien is, it's because he was faster than Goku with his weights, who is equal in speed to that of King Piccolo's, implying that even Tien could have defeated King Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai.

I agree though that anyone below them are not there yet, so I don't think Krillin and Yamcha would defeat King Piccolo neither in the 23rd Budokai or in BOZ, but they were actually close to him since they were the only ones who managed to see Weighted Goku and Tien's (suppressed) speed, both of which were equal to that of KP's, though given how fast Weighted Goku and Tien (suppressed) were for Krillin and Yamcha to the point the latter two were shocked by that then I would say they haven't reached King Piccolo level until Kami's training.
According to the power levels listed by the Daiz 7, Goku & Daimao were at 260 apiece at the King's palace while the first volume of the DBZ arc lists Tenshinhan as 250.
Those power levels contradict what is shown in the story though. Maybe the Daizenshuu got the power level wrong, or maybe Tien was holding back when he had the 250 number.

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Re: Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

Post by theherodjl » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:30 pm

dragonball0900 wrote:Those power levels contradict what is shown in the story though. Maybe the Daizenshuu got the power level wrong, or maybe Tien was holding back when he had the 250 number.
I'm going to be the one to admit that I don't know how power levels work, that's simply what is stated in the Daiz.
Piccolo is at a whopping 3,500 against Nappa's 4,000 but somehow gets owned as easily as Tenshinhan, Ten himself being at 1,800 or just over half of Piccolo's power. Then Nappa is somehow able to match Goku's 8,000 despite still being at 4,000, its not until Goku goes to 16,000 or 4x Nappa's strength that he finally overwhelms & injures Nappa.
I can't explain it, I just observe it.
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Re: Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

Post by Pantalones » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:41 pm

Maybe the Daizenshuu got the power level wrong, or maybe Tien was holding back when he had the 250 number.
Tenshinhan's 250 was the scouter's number for him when he was traveling to meet the others, right? Chances are that's not his full power, then -- just like how Goku and Piccolo's power levels were 300ish with weighted clothing on, but 420ish with the weights off, and then they could amplify them into the 1000+ range with the Kamehameha and Makankosappo.

Tenshinhan's 250 was probably his "resting" power, in which case his fighting power at the beginning of Z would've been beyond Daimao's level for sure (and a Kikoho or even Dodonpa would be so powerful as to finish the Demon King off in one shot.)

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Re: Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

Post by theherodjl » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:25 am

Pantalones wrote:Tenshinhan's 250 was the scouter's number for him when he was traveling to meet the others, right? Chances are that's not his full power, then -- just like how Goku and Piccolo's power levels were 300ish with weighted clothing on, but 420ish with the weights off, and then they could amplify them into the 1000+ range with the Kamehameha and Makankosappo.

Tenshinhan's 250 was probably his "resting" power, in which case his fighting power at the beginning of Z would've been beyond Daimao's level for sure (and a Kikoho or even Dodonpa would be so powerful as to finish the Demon King off in one shot.)
The issue with that being we never see Ten wearing weighted clothing or relaxing in the manga or in anime filler, the latter depicting him as always being in training mode at his home with Chaozu. The 250 reading might as well be accurate, the Daiz 7 never indicates that his Ki was being suppressed or that he was 'actually' on par with Kami & Popo or higher.
Now with the Kikoho, Ten would certainly defeat Daimao since it boosted his Ki drastically during usage. For base strength though, Ten was just a smidge below Daimao until the training for the Saiyans.
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Re: Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:50 am

Yes, but not as much as it used to be. Goku, Piccolo Jr and Tenshinhan were already far stronger than Piccolo Sr, and Yamcha and Kuririn were closing on him. By BoZ all of them are even stronger, and both Yamcha and Kuririn have probably surpassed him by this point.
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Re: Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

Post by Olympian » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:09 pm

dragonball0900 wrote:
theherodjl wrote:Of course. Only 4 fighters on Earth prior to Raditz' arrival were stronger than the younger Daimao with the next closest being Tenshinhan, requiring 8 years of training to nearly match Daimao's level himself. It wasn't until after everyone trained at Kami's palace for the Saiyans is when Daimao's level was no longer a threat to the Z Senshi.
I think it would be 5 fighters (Goku, Piccolo, Kami, Popo and Tien), the reason Tien is, it's because he was faster than Goku with his weights, who is equal in speed to that of King Piccolo's, implying that even Tien could have defeated King Piccolo at the 23rd Budokai.

I agree though that anyone below them are not there yet, so I don't think Krillin and Yamcha would defeat King Piccolo neither in the 23rd Budokai or in BOZ, but they were actually close to him since they were the only ones who managed to see Weighted Goku and Tien's (suppressed) speed, both of which were equal to that of KP's, though given how fast Weighted Goku and Tien (suppressed) were for Krillin and Yamcha to the point the latter two were shocked by that then I would say they haven't reached King Piccolo level until Kami's training.
Only Goku`s speed was at first surpressed in that fight, right up until he takes the weights off.
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Re: Would it have been impressive if someone had defeated King Piccolo a year before the arrival of Raditz?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:51 am

Goku, Tien, and Piccolo were the only fighters on Earth stronger than Daimao so yes.
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