How do you feel about certain meta jokes?

[GamerSkull]

I hope this is the right place for this...

But how do you guys feel about nods to the fanbase/in-universe meta jokes? ... assuming I'm I using that term right.

Stuff like "Let's go see Yamcha" in the DBS dub (I know this one seems harmless but it was immersion-breaking for me), or what happens towards the end of the baseball episode with the crater. I guess the Ginyu Force are sort of a meta joke but I believe that was unintentional.

I can ignore memes that bother me for the most part since they are outside of official material, but when they are referenced in-universe, it kinda spoils the mood for me.

Do you think meta-jokes in the same vein are fitting for the Dragon Ball universe... or are they equally as jarring to you guys as they are to me?

[Akyon]

Honestly the 'Yamcha sucks' meta is the main one I can't get onboard with. Whilst Yamcha has always been one of the least lucky in battle(Saibamen, anyone?) he was never taken as a gag in the series. When Yamcha loses a fight in Dragonball or Z the characters often gave their condolenses rather than a snarky wink wink nudge nudge. At least he won the baseball game with that pose, but the humour was drained from it entirely the moment the others commented on how the pose felt familiar.

The recruitment arc also jumped on the 'Yamcha sucks' bandwagon, having him ignored even by his former master in favour of borrowing Puar...and whilst it seemed to be leading up to a very cruel joke, there's no payoff or punchline for it at all. Yamcha see's everyone fly off and he's cool with it because he's ridiculously laid back. There's no payoff of his disappointment, which makes the 'Yamcha sucks' meta during this period all the weirder.

I guess the "Yamcha sucks" meta is particularly grating for me, since Yamcha's at least a more competent fighter and complete character than Chiaoutzu is and no one is ragging on him in series for being the only character never to win a fight AND somehow still have the highest amount of deaths in the show.
That's impressive suckage, and I think Chiaoutzu is horrifically underutilised and love the concept of psychic powers in the series, but goddamn it really should be him if anyone's getting this treatment.

Most the other references(such as Vegeta getting the fruit namesakes of Zarbon and Dodoria in his hair) are cute little things that don't really take me out the show, but the bizarre treatment of Yamcha by his life long friends(and utter lack of concern for his well being at times) just feels too odd. Didn't Krillin murder like five saibamen because Yamcha died? Now he's making gags about the pose as his friend lays battered and bruised in the crater...it's err...weird.

[Gligarman]

I miss the frequent 4th wall breaking jokes that were more prevalent in manga. Such as when Kuririn accused Toriyama of having Goten and Trunks repeatedly fail the fusion on purpose so he could keep reusing the same panels, or when Goku punched Yamcha so hard he broke the panel.

[Onibaku]

I miss the frequent 4th wall breaking jokes that were more prevalent in manga. Such as when Kuririn accused Toriyama of having Goten and Trunks repeatedly fail the fusion on purpose so he could keep reusing the same panels, or when Goku punched Yamcha so hard he broke the panel.

What chapter is the bolded one?

EDIT: Nvm, found it

[GamerSkull]

Honestly the 'Yamcha sucks' meta is the main one I can't get onboard with. Whilst Yamcha has always been one of the least lucky in battle(Saibamen, anyone?) he was never taken as a gag in the series. When Yamcha loses a fight in Dragonball or Z the characters often gave their condolenses rather than a snarky wink wink nudge nudge. At least he won the baseball game with that pose, but the humour was drained from it entirely the moment the others commented on how the pose felt familiar.

The recruitment arc also jumped on the 'Yamcha sucks' bandwagon, having him ignored even by his former master in favour of borrowing Puar...and whilst it seemed to be leading up to a very cruel joke, there's no payoff or punchline for it at all. Yamcha see's everyone fly off and he's cool with it because he's ridiculously laid back. There's no payoff of his disappointment, which makes the 'Yamcha sucks' meta during this period all the weirder.

I guess the "Yamcha sucks" meta is particularly grating for me, since Yamcha's at least a more competent fighter and complete character than Chiaoutzu is and no one is ragging on him in series for being the only character never to win a fight AND somehow still have the highest amount of deaths in the show.
That's impressive suckage, and I think Chiaoutzu is horrifically underutilised and love the concept of psychic powers in the series, but goddamn it really should be him if anyone's getting this treatment.

Most the other references(such as Vegeta getting the fruit namesakes of Zarbon and Dodoria in his hair) are cute little things that don't really take me out the show, but the bizarre treatment of Yamcha by his life long friends(and utter lack of concern for his well being at times) just feels too odd. Didn't Krillin murder like five saibamen because Yamcha died? Now he's making gags about the pose as his friend lays battered and bruised in the crater...it's err...weird.

I agree with this. Often times, I wonder why Yamcha still hangs out with them in Super. I know he's laid-back so he'd never blow up furiously in front of them... but if I was him, I'd seek out some better friends that at least can respect me to some modicum. The only true answer as to why this occurs is probably just that the meme now sells so if they can profit off of it, why not use it?

It's bad enough that he has been so mishandled that he's now a joke for the fandom... but now we've got official material doing this and it just aggravates me since I cannot ignore that. He's my favorite character but at this point, I'll just have to accept the sad fact that they'll never throw him a bone... ever.

And yeah, the way his friends act is completely different than the depiction of the main series... where they seem to care for him regardless and do show genuine concern when he gets hurt. And most of the time, they treat him with enough respect. DBS has them now somewhat self-aware of the meme and that makes no sense to me. And I understand it's for kids and is a joke episode but that makes no difference to me... just don't do the death pose. Him getting hurt a bunch of times is sufficient enough.
Also, the worst is that Roshi has been secretly training' when he should have reached his peak in DB and now Yamcha is no longer stronger than him either. It just seems like bias.

Referential humor and jokes of that kind aren't too bad to me. Really, I think my problem just comes when it seems the official material incorporates fandom memes into their stuff.

[TheZFighter]

I quite like meta jokes in general but the whole "Yamcha is a joke so let's treat him like one" narrative is completely wasted on me, but I think that is as much to do with my whole view on social media/ (what I like to call) "meme culture", as it is to do with the quality of that particular joke.

[Chuquita]

I don't like the mean-spirited ones like the being cruel to Yamcha just because, or the pretending Goku is cruel just because jokes.

Stuff like the Omnipotent Mr. Popo shout out in Super or Nappa wanting to join the Ginyu Force in FighterZ though I like.

It comes down to individuals' sense of humor.

[King13s]

Honestly the 'Yamcha sucks' meta is the main one I can't get onboard with. Whilst Yamcha has always been one of the least lucky in battle(Saibamen, anyone?) he was never taken as a gag in the series.

Actually Yamacha is kind of the original gag fight. For all his talk, all his posturing, once Goku wasn't hungry he whipped the floor with Yamcha. He was just as pompous as Vegeta, but with no talent to back it up. Was he decidedly stronger than average humans, yes. Was he constantly out of his depth in any fight Goku was a part of, of course! That's just what his character exists for, before Krillin, Yamacha was the bench mark of normal strength.

I guess the "Yamcha sucks" meta is particularly grating for me, since Yamcha's at least a more competent fighter and complete character than Chiaoutzu is and no one is ragging on him in series for being the only character never to win a fight AND somehow still have the highest amount of deaths in the show.
That's impressive suckage, and I think Chiaoutzu is horrifically underutilised and love the concept of psychic powers in the series, but goddamn it really should be him if anyone's getting this treatment.

Yeah, that's totally fair. Chiaotzu was about to introduce an entirely different way of fighting with psychic powers, move mimicry...but is just a sidekick.

I think the difference is the attitude of Yamcha. People enjoy tearing down someone with inflated confidence.

Very fair to be bugged by it all in all. I mean, let's not lie, a bunch of us thought his collection of facial scars was pretty cool as kids. And to this day I have a fan character idea for "What if Yamcha learned Genki-Dama" and instead of just absorbing energy, he generated an actual spirit wolf pack to fight along side him.

[GamerSkull]

Honestly the 'Yamcha sucks' meta is the main one I can't get onboard with. Whilst Yamcha has always been one of the least lucky in battle(Saibamen, anyone?) he was never taken as a gag in the series.

Actually Yamacha is kind of the original gag fight. For all his talk, all his posturing, once Goku wasn't hungry he whipped the floor with Yamcha. He was just as pompous as Vegeta, but with no talent to back it up. Was he decidedly stronger than average humans, yes. Was he constantly out of his depth in any fight Goku was a part of, of course! That's just what his character exists for, before Krillin, Yamacha was the bench mark of normal strength.

I guess the "Yamcha sucks" meta is particularly grating for me, since Yamcha's at least a more competent fighter and complete character than Chiaoutzu is and no one is ragging on him in series for being the only character never to win a fight AND somehow still have the highest amount of deaths in the show.
That's impressive suckage, and I think Chiaoutzu is horrifically underutilised and love the concept of psychic powers in the series, but goddamn it really should be him if anyone's getting this treatment.

Yeah, that's totally fair. Chiaotzu was about to introduce an entirely different way of fighting with psychic powers, move mimicry...but is just a sidekick.

I think the difference is the attitude of Yamcha. People enjoy tearing down someone with inflated confidence.

Very fair to be bugged by it all in all. I mean, let's not lie, a bunch of us thought his collection of facial scars was pretty cool as kids. And to this day I have a fan character idea for "What if Yamcha learned Genki-Dama" and instead of just absorbing energy, he generated an actual spirit wolf pack to fight along side him.

You have valid points.

But as a fan of the character, I want him to at least be treated decently in-universe... because that's how it had been depicted more or less in the past. People tearing him down because of his inflated confidence is fine... but it should stay outside official material. Because at the end of the day, as a fan, I can ignore people fairly easily when it comes to that. It just gets aggravating when his friends in-universe seem to have the knowledge of those memes... because that can't be ignored and results in immersion breaks for me because instead of enjoying the story, my mind starts wandering into meme territory.

He seems to have even more of an inflated confidence in Super than usual, but I get the feeling that was done more because they started to embrace the meme.

Anyway, this is just my opinion on the subject. I get that fans love to tear him down and make fun of him... but there are some uncalled for things in official stuff. For instance, Piccolo in the dub for FighterZ says "I see why Bulma chose Vegeta" instead of the original japanese line (which is about Dende and Kami-sama) and it just comes off as Piccolo being too overly mean to Yamcha and doesn't fit with the character. Stuff like that annoys me... especially since it was done with no other purpose but to shit on Yamcha outside of original context. (also FighterZ only has the dubtitles so even if I play it in japanese, I'll see that line in the text anyway)

It's just disheartening when that happens. To me.

[Mac]

Honestly the 'Yamcha sucks' meta is the main one I can't get onboard with. Whilst Yamcha has always been one of the least lucky in battle(Saibamen, anyone?) he was never taken as a gag in the series.

Actually Yamacha is kind of the original gag fight. For all his talk, all his posturing, once Goku wasn't hungry he whipped the floor with Yamcha. He was just as pompous as Vegeta, but with no talent to back it up. Was he decidedly stronger than average humans, yes. Was he constantly out of his depth in any fight Goku was a part of, of course! That's just what his character exists for, before Krillin, Yamacha was the bench mark of normal strength.

I guess the "Yamcha sucks" meta is particularly grating for me, since Yamcha's at least a more competent fighter and complete character than Chiaoutzu is and no one is ragging on him in series for being the only character never to win a fight AND somehow still have the highest amount of deaths in the show.
That's impressive suckage, and I think Chiaoutzu is horrifically underutilised and love the concept of psychic powers in the series, but goddamn it really should be him if anyone's getting this treatment.

Yeah, that's totally fair. Chiaotzu was about to introduce an entirely different way of fighting with psychic powers, move mimicry...but is just a sidekick.

I think the difference is the attitude of Yamcha. People enjoy tearing down someone with inflated confidence.

Very fair to be bugged by it all in all. I mean, let's not lie, a bunch of us thought his collection of facial scars was pretty cool as kids. And to this day I have a fan character idea for "What if Yamcha learned Genki-Dama" and instead of just absorbing energy, he generated an actual spirit wolf pack to fight along side him.

You have valid points.

But as a fan of the character, I want him to at least be treated decently in-universe... because that's how it had been depicted more or less in the past. People tearing him down because of his inflated confidence is fine... but it should stay outside official material. Because at the end of the day, as a fan, I can ignore people fairly easily when it comes to that. It just gets aggravating when his friends in-universe seem to have the knowledge of those memes... because that can't be ignored and results in immersion breaks for me because instead of enjoying the story, my mind starts wandering into meme territory.

He seems to have even more of an inflated confidence in Super than usual, but I get the feeling that was done more because they started to embrace the meme.

Anyway, this is just my opinion on the subject. I get that fans love to tear him down and make fun of him... but there are some uncalled for things in official stuff. For instance, Piccolo in the dub for FighterZ says "I see why Bulma chose Vegeta" instead of the original japanese line (which is about Dende and Kami-sama) and it just comes off as Piccolo being too overly mean to Yamcha and doesn't fit with the character. Stuff like that annoys me... especially since it was done with no other purpose but to shit on Yamcha outside of original context. (also FighterZ only has the dubtitles so even if I play it in japanese, I'll see that line in the text anyway)

It's just disheartening when that happens. To me.

The dub in fighterZ has everyone being almost too brutal to each other in general.

[GamerSkull]

The dub in fighterZ has everyone being almost too brutal to each other in general.

Yeah, it's quite annoying. I don't like some of the liberties taken in it.

It reminds me of TFS and DBZA in some places.

[King13s]

You have valid points.

But as a fan of the character, I want him to at least be treated decently in-universe... because that's how it had been depicted more or less in the past. People tearing him down because of his inflated confidence is fine... but it should stay outside official material. Because at the end of the day, as a fan, I can ignore people fairly easily when it comes to that. It just gets aggravating when his friends in-universe seem to have the knowledge of those memes... because that can't be ignored and results in immersion breaks for me because instead of enjoying the story, my mind starts wandering into meme territory.

He seems to have even more of an inflated confidence in Super than usual, but I get the feeling that was done more because they started to embrace the meme.

Anyway, this is just my opinion on the subject. I get that fans love to tear him down and make fun of him... but there are some uncalled for things in official stuff. For instance, Piccolo in the dub for FighterZ says "I see why Bulma chose Vegeta" instead of the original japanese line (which is about Dende and Kami-sama) and it just comes off as Piccolo being too overly mean to Yamcha and doesn't fit with the character. Stuff like that annoys me... especially since it was done with no other purpose but to shit on Yamcha outside of original context. (also FighterZ only has the dubtitles so even if I play it in japanese, I'll see that line in the text anyway)

It's just disheartening when that happens. To me.

I am with you there 100%
How they have turned our world's perspective of him onto the characters in universe, especially in the American dub of FighterZ, just isn't even funny.

[Asura]

The dub in fighterZ has everyone being almost too brutal to each other in general.

"I'll be sure to visit your grave." - Goku, 2018

[GTx10]

The dub in fighterZ has everyone being almost too brutal to each other in general.

"I'll be sure to visit your grave." - Goku, 2018

That is a cool line though. Goku has honored the dead before, he prayed when he thought he killed Major Metalatron. (I may have spelled that wrong)

[Asura]

The dub in fighterZ has everyone being almost too brutal to each other in general.

"I'll be sure to visit your grave." - Goku, 2018

That is a cool line though. Goku has honored the dead before, he prayed when he thought he killed Major Metalatron. (I may have spelled that wrong)

It's pretty threatening, not to mention a brutal thing to say to someone.

[Gligarman]

How about when Muten Roshi, disguised as Jackie Chun, found out Nomu's backstory and determined that he thought something was wrong because he was out of place in a gag manga? Not to mention any and all Dr. Slump references.

[Jackalope89]

Considering Yamcha had long since given up fighting, even moreso than even Gohan and Krillin, I can see why he would be passed over.

Yeah, he could still do the Spirit Ball thing with the baseball and fly, but that's not much to go on. Not to mention, he's about always been a punching bag for stronger opponents.

[GreatJaiyaman]

I'm fine with meta humor, honestly in my opinion i think it falls perfectly in line with Toriyamas gag writing style. Dragonball at its core is supposed to be fun and light hearted, two perfect examples are Supers baseball episode, and the Arale episode, both of which plenty of laugh out loud meta humor.

[GamerSkull]

Considering Yamcha had long since given up fighting, even moreso than even Gohan and Krillin, I can see why he would be passed over.

Yeah, he could still do the Spirit Ball thing with the baseball and fly, but that's not much to go on. Not to mention, he's about always been a punching bag for stronger opponents.

That's not really where my frustration comes from but...

If they can bring back Krillin or Roshi and explain away why they can compete with other universe fighters... I feel like they should be able to do the same with Yamcha.

Or even during Freeza's revival. He should at least be stronger than Jaco... but it's okay for Jaco to fight fodder but Yamcha can't. And apparently Roshi could at the time too.

They don't because him being a punching bag is a popular and probably profitable meme at this point. I mean... even if it was fodder, I'd be happy for Yamcha at this point.

But even then, the direct changes in the dub just to shit on him for no reason at all are still uncalled for. Forget the regular gags that the show puts towards him...

I dread to think what kind of ad libs Christopher Sabat will do during the baseball and ToP episodes when Yamcha is concerned. And as voice director, some of the other characters' dialogue might also be changed by him for the hell of it. These are just concerns I have.

[GTx10]

"I'll be sure to visit your grave." - Goku, 2018

That is a cool line though. Goku has honored the dead before, he prayed when he thought he killed Major Metalatron. (I may have spelled that wrong)

It's pretty threatening, not to mention a brutal thing to say to someone.

Seeing as Goku has burst through someone's abdoman, (King Piccolo) broke two people's backs, (Nappa and Burter) and straight up blasted Freeza back to Super's version of Hell I'd say that line is pretty tame by comparison.