How do you feel about certain meta jokes?

[matt0044]

"Let's go see Yamcha"

Considering it was Vegeta who's still kind of an ass, I can't say it's very out of character on his part at the very least. Honestly, the dub of Super for many makes the series more entertaining even during the "less than well drawn" parts. Really, I enjoy that the actors make the most of what they got.

That and Dragon Ball Z's been more than a little meta too with the Buu Saga, Gotenks always references the Rule of Cool in executing his attacks.

[GamerSkull]

"Let's go see Yamcha"

Considering it was Vegeta who's still kind of an ass, I can't say it's very out of character on his part at the very least. Honestly, the dub of Super for many makes the series more entertaining even during the "less than well drawn" parts. Really, I enjoy that the actors make the most of what they got.

That and Dragon Ball Z's been more than a little meta too with the Buu Saga, Gotenks always references the Rule of Cool in executing his attacks.

Yeah, it's debatabley in-character but when it's also clearly Sabat ad libbing for no reason to poke reference at his constant twitter jokes... well, it takes me out of it.

I don't mind dubs and if they change a few words around to better fit lip flaps or slightly changing something that wouldn't carry over english... but referential jokes bother me. If Piccolo or Gohan or Goku made a subtle joke about Piccolo being a better father in the dub... I'd be annoyed with that as well. The point is, it breaks my immersion.

I respect your opinion and I agree that it's cool that the actors make the best of what they have... but superfluous jokes that seem to reference the fandom's memes is not cool for me. That stuff can exist but it should stay outside of official material. It's why I feel like there should be better editorial or directing for this series at Funimation.

[matt0044]

"Let's go see Yamcha"

Considering it was Vegeta who's still kind of an ass, I can't say it's very out of character on his part at the very least. Honestly, the dub of Super for many makes the series more entertaining even during the "less than well drawn" parts. Really, I enjoy that the actors make the most of what they got.

That and Dragon Ball Z's been more than a little meta too with the Buu Saga, Gotenks always references the Rule of Cool in executing his attacks.

Yeah, it's debatabley in-character but when it's also clearly Sabat ad libbing for no reason to poke reference at his constant twitter jokes... well, it takes me out of it.

I don't mind dubs and if they change a few words around to better fit lip flaps or slightly changing something that wouldn't carry over english... but referential jokes bother me. If Piccolo or Gohan or Goku made a subtle joke about Piccolo being a better father in the dub... I'd be annoyed with that as well. The point is, it breaks my immersion.

I respect your opinion and I agree that it's cool that the actors make the best of what they have... but superfluous jokes that seem to reference the fandom's memes is not cool for me. That stuff can exist but it should stay outside of official material. It's why I feel like there should be better editorial or directing for this series at Funimation.

I suppose that depends on where the line's drawn or the time and place for a more meta/fourth wall gag. Like I would be more annoyed if the gag was made during what should be a more tense or action-y scene. A more light hearted moment is more fair game so long as it's reasonably within character.


Though a joke about PIccolo's "fatherhood" would be weird, I'd feel it'd only work (IMO) if it was a jab at the notion itself rather than a mere reference. Even then, it depends on timing.

I mean, official Dragon Ball media dub or sub hasn't been any stranger to being the least self-aware.

[KBABZ]

There's a fair few cutscenes in the FighterZ campaign making such references, like Yamcha being clearly outclassed and having hung up martial arts, or Piccolo reflecting on how almost all of Goku's friends were his enemies at some point. How does that compare to the series itself?

[GamerSkull]

I just don't like dubs changing dialogue to make a meta joke if it wasn't in the original material.

I prefer an honest translation but I understand that not everybody feels this way. The Piccolo scene in FighterZ where he makes a reference to the main series when it comes to Dende and Kami-sama is fine and I would have preferred that over the mean-spirited jab he does in the dub. But even then, I'd have been more okay with it had they allowed people who prefer the japanese dialogue to have the accurate subtitles. But that is for another thread.

I guess what I'm trying to say is... a lot of the dub meta jokes seem to come randomly and feel almost TFS-inspired. At least with Yamcha's baseball episode it made sense... since joking about Yamcha in a Yamcha episode isn't out of left field. Maybe Piccolo being a better father or grandfather figure would have felt in place during the episode where Goku babysits Pan but his powers are haywire. But just randomly dropping it into a scene doesn't particularly jive with me. It just reeks of pandering. That's just me.

[KBABZ]

But even then, I'd have been more okay with it had they allowed people who prefer the japanese dialogue to have the accurate subtitles.

I'm confused, I thought the subtitles were accurate? They're the same as they were in pre-release material back when we were only hearing Japanese audio.

[GamerSkull]

But even then, I'd have been more okay with it had they allowed people who prefer the japanese dialogue to have the accurate subtitles.

I'm confused, I thought the subtitles were accurate? They're the same as they were in pre-release material back when we were only hearing Japanese audio.

Nah, in the japanese Piccolo says "Kami-sama is Dende" or something like that but the subs say "I see why Bulma chose Vegeta" because the subs are for the dub dialogue.
There are no subtitles for the accurate japanese dialogue in the game as of yet. So when I see those subtitles, it not only takes me out of it, but I can tell from the japanese dialogue that Piccolo mentioned Dende and Kami-sama and not Bulma or Vegeta.

And there seems to be several instances of that.

It won't be a problem if they add in the accurate subs as a choice in a future patch but... well, I'm not holding my breath.

[KBABZ]

Nah, in the japanese Piccolo says "Kami-sama is Dende" or something like that but the subs say "I see why Bulma chose Vegeta" because the subs are for the dub dialogue.
There are no subtitles for the accurate japanese dialogue in the game as of yet. So when I see those subtitles, it not only takes me out of it, but I can tell from the japanese dialogue that Piccolo mentioned Dende and Kami-sama and not Bulma or Vegeta.

And there seems to be several instances of that.

It won't be a problem if they add in the accurate subs as a choice in a future patch but... well, I'm not holding my breath.

Gotcha. That makes certain things more confusing; if they had the time and money to completely replace the subtitles, why couldn't they also have adjusted the lip flaps considering how simple those are to animate?

[GamerSkull]

Nah, in the japanese Piccolo says "Kami-sama is Dende" or something like that but the subs say "I see why Bulma chose Vegeta" because the subs are for the dub dialogue.
There are no subtitles for the accurate japanese dialogue in the game as of yet. So when I see those subtitles, it not only takes me out of it, but I can tell from the japanese dialogue that Piccolo mentioned Dende and Kami-sama and not Bulma or Vegeta.

And there seems to be several instances of that.

It won't be a problem if they add in the accurate subs as a choice in a future patch but... well, I'm not holding my breath.

Gotcha. That makes certain things more confusing; if they had the time and money to completely replace the subtitles, why couldn't they also have adjusted the lip flaps considering how simple those are to animate?

It's probably easier and less expensive to just implement text. Personally, I wish they took the time and effort to make sure sub fans had accurate text and not dubtitles.

[KBABZ]

It's probably easier and less expensive to just implement text. Personally, I wish they took the time and effort to make sure sub fans had accurate text and not dubtitles.

It certainly doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean Jak and Daxter, a game from 2001, allowed changing the language of the audio and subtitles, so why can't a 2018 game?

[GamerSkull]

It's probably easier and less expensive to just implement text. Personally, I wish they took the time and effort to make sure sub fans had accurate text and not dubtitles.

It certainly doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean Jak and Daxter, a game from 2001, allowed changing the language of the audio and subtitles, so why can't a 2018 game?

They probably just don't care. But I do hope they patch proper subs into the game in the future.

[KBABZ]

It's probably easier and less expensive to just implement text. Personally, I wish they took the time and effort to make sure sub fans had accurate text and not dubtitles.

It certainly doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean Jak and Daxter, a game from 2001, allowed changing the language of the audio and subtitles, so why can't a 2018 game?

They probably just don't care. But I do hope they patch proper subs into the game in the future.

For me the "dream" is to have two English tracks like what Kai did. One is the bowlderized version from Nicktoons with the changed script, while the second has accurate writing and the original attack names. For some reason I prefer the dub names for characters by association.

[GamerSkull]

It certainly doesn't make a lot of sense. I mean Jak and Daxter, a game from 2001, allowed changing the language of the audio and subtitles, so why can't a 2018 game?

They probably just don't care. But I do hope they patch proper subs into the game in the future.

For me the "dream" is to have two English tracks like what Kai did. One is the bowlderized version from Nicktoons with the changed script, while the second has accurate writing and the original attack names. For some reason I prefer the dub names for characters by association.

Yeah, I wish they included a number of options in the game but... alas, they probably thought it was too much work.

[TekTheNinja]

Well the Yamcha jokes are terrible and I hate them. Turning him into an in-universe joke is stupid, unfunny, and actually makes the other characters look like assholes to the guy who's supposed to be their friend.

And as others have said, the horrible FighterZ localized dialogue is riddled with bad meta jokes such as the luckily removed, "Gohan, you made me proud... Finally" and the sadly still here, "I see why Bulma chose Vegeta". It's really annoying that they didn't translate the game properly.

[GamerSkull]

Well the Yamcha jokes are terrible and I hate them. Turning him into an in-universe joke is stupid, unfunny, and actually makes the other characters look like assholes to the guy who's supposed to be their friend.

And as others have said, the horrible FighterZ localized dialogue is riddled with bad meta jokes such as the luckily removed, "Gohan, you made me proud... Finally" and the sadly still here, "I see why Bulma chose Vegeta". It's really annoying that they didn't translate the game properly.

Yeah, but at least I can take comfort in the fact that Yamcha is really fun gameplay-wise in FighterZ.

I seriously hope they make changes or provide the accurate subs though.

[TekTheNinja]

Well the Yamcha jokes are terrible and I hate them. Turning him into an in-universe joke is stupid, unfunny, and actually makes the other characters look like assholes to the guy who's supposed to be their friend.

And as others have said, the horrible FighterZ localized dialogue is riddled with bad meta jokes such as the luckily removed, "Gohan, you made me proud... Finally" and the sadly still here, "I see why Bulma chose Vegeta". It's really annoying that they didn't translate the game properly.

Yeah, but at least I can take comfort in the fact that Yamcha is really fun gameplay-wise in FighterZ.

I seriously hope they make changes or provide the accurate subs though.

I'm a big fan of the scene where Krillin and Goku convince Yamcha to join them though. That shit's heartwarming.

[matt0044]

I personally enjoyed FUNi's more balanced adaptation of DBZ Kai with how it's true to the original storyline but isn't afraid to be more flexible with the dialogue so the script hardly sounds like stilted translations that'd make even fansubbers cringe. This is something Sailor Moon's Viz release improved upon in time for S. That said, I feel their dub of Super runs the gambit of maybe having a bit too much fun. While it works when syncing up with the story's tone, certain self-aware humor can stick out like a sore thumb if adlibbed candidly. I feel this is far more of a case by case basis.

I wouldn't mind FighterZ being a tad tongue in cheek in small doses... so long as they had a subtitle track more directly translated from the JPN script. I get the sense that's on the game developers themselves, less so FUNimation. I do feel like Goku's "Finally" remark was suppose to be a separate statement rather than come off as underhanded praise, like there was a misunderstanding on the typer's part.

[GamerSkull]

I personally enjoyed FUNi's more balanced adaptation of DBZ Kai with how it's true to the original storyline but isn't afraid to be more flexible with the dialogue so the script hardly sounds like stilted translations that'd make even fansubbers cringe. This is something Sailor Moon's Viz release improved upon in time for S. That said, I feel their dub of Super runs the gambit of maybe having a bit too much fun. While it works when syncing up with the story's tone, certain self-aware humor can stick out like a sore thumb if adlibbed candidly. I feel this is far more of a case by case basis.

I wouldn't mind FighterZ being a tad tongue in cheek in small doses... so long as they had a subtitle track more directly translated from the JPN script. I get the sense that's on the game developers themselves, less so FUNimation. I do feel like Goku's "Finally" remark was suppose to be a separate statement rather than come off as underhanded praise, like there was a misunderstanding on the typer's part.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sabat helped write some of the lines for FighterZ since he was the voice director for the series. I would expect some FUNi involvement via him if any.

But yeah, I wish they wouldn't take as many liberties as they do in Super. I think the people working on DB at Funimation have an ego to a certain extent.

[matt0044]

I think the people working on DB at Funimation have an ego to a certain extent.

Ego's got zilch to do with it. More to do with one's philosophy on translation and adaptation. In the case of FUNimation, their dubbing methods seem to lie with the mindset that any Anime could be somebody's first and that somebody might likely default to dubs due in part to how an entire show in subtitles might be a barrier of entry.

As such, they don't constrain themselves to the exact translation of the Japanese script and try to be accommodating to potential newcomers to the medium of Anime. Especially when in regards to the character's mouth movements.

I highly recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGyxm1zsijk and this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wrkvjd6GJQ They are long but hella awesome and insightful on how dubs aren't as cut n' dry as one thinks.

But as I said, there's always room for error in the adaptation process. Some cheeky adlibs get through that might be funny for some but not so much in the broader story overall. Super passes just a bit since the original show's often has a more "Dragon Ball" vibe where things have that Toriyama-style absudities. However, it runs the gambit of maybe coming off as too much of a fourth wall gag when it wasn't originally and can be at odds with the tone the story's going for as a result.

In the case of "non-canon" video games, I get the sense there's a sort of "let's have a little fun" vibe amongst the VAs and ADR scripters since this isn't the main series itself. I don't mind it but some of them like Piccolo's crack about Bulma moving onto Vegeta do cross the line and should've been little more than an outtake.

[GamerSkull]

I think the people working on DB at Funimation have an ego to a certain extent.

Ego's got zilch to do with it. More to do with one's philosophy on translation and adaptation. In the case of FUNimation, their dubbing methods seem to lie with the mindset that any Anime could be somebody's first and that somebody might likely default to dubs due in part to how an entire show in subtitles might be a barrier of entry.

As such, they don't constrain themselves to the exact translation of the Japanese script and try to be accommodating to potential newcomers to the medium of Anime. Especially when in regards to the character's mouth movements.

I highly recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGyxm1zsijk and this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wrkvjd6GJQ They are long but hella awesome and insightful on how dubs aren't as cut n' dry as one thinks.

But as I said, there's always room for error in the adaptation process. Some cheeky adlibs get through that might be funny for some but not so much in the broader story overall. Super passes just a bit since the original show's often has a more "Dragon Ball" vibe where things have that Toriyama-style absudities. However, it runs the gambit of maybe coming off as too much of a fourth wall gag when it wasn't originally and can be at odds with the tone the story's going for as a result.

In the case of "non-canon" video games, I get the sense there's a sort of "let's have a little fun" vibe amongst the VAs and ADR scripters since this isn't the main series itself. I don't mind it but some of them like Piccolo's crack about Bulma moving onto Vegeta do cross the line and should've been little more than an outtake.

I didn't mean it like that but it was my mistake for not clarifying. But you're most likely right about them just having a difference in philosophy when it comes to localizations.

But yeah, I agree with most of your post here. I guess it's fine as long as they don't go overboard and I still feel that they due in certain instances. I'll definitely give those videos a watch since I'm actually unaware of how the process works in comparison to the original japanese.

On that note, were you okay with "Let's go see Yamcha" in the Super dub? I can understand if you were but I felt like even that was a little too much because I could tell right away that Vegeta never said it in the original and it was just a jab at all the Yamcha jokes. I know it's very small thing... but it irks me when I'm immediately taken out of immersion because I'm thrown into TFS mode.

And as far as the non-canon videogames go, I would be more okay with it if there were subtitles of the original jap dialogue so I can experience the original stuff.