A Discussion about Kaioken

[King13s]

I'm not going to sit here and list episode or chapter quotes and all that. This is just something that has been bugging me. Especially since Super now has Goku running around in SSBlue Kaioken, that technique's dangers have lost their touch

As the anime continuity sits wrapped in it's bubble, thanks to this weird duel scheduling, we can't discount any anime episodes as filler, like we used to. Goku almost crippled himself by using Kaioken in SSBlue, and I loved that. I adored that it made that skill dangerous again. With the Vegeta fight we saw Goku's body swell to the point of bursting. He was almost crippled there, but only physically. With SSBlue this added the danger of almost destroying Goku as a Ki user entirely. That was amazing. The technique is dangerous, and should be seen that way... And now Goku turns it on and off like a light switch. They didn't even have someone in the audience acknowledge how bad of an idea that is.

Also, what the heck is King Kai that he can develop a technique that can rip apart muscle fibers like that? He's a godly bugman ok, but he has to have some sort of regenerative capabilities of his own to cope with what it does. I mean the creativity of merging the Saiyan zenkai boost with a technique that can kill them is brilliant. Goku gets stronger even when he wins, but that coupling was accidental. King Kai didn't know that.

Then he goes and refuses to teach the other fighters Kaioken or Spirit Bomb at all. In universe logic was this because he feared they would abuse it just as Goku did? Or was this meta-logic, in that Toriyama didn't want everyone shouting Kaioken, like back in Dragon Ball when suddenly everyone could use the Kamehameha? We know Tien is self sacrificing enough to blow a x20 and use Neo Kikouho to off himself, but Yamcha and Piccolo could have used it very well. Scenes of Piccolo blowing muscles in different limbs, then ripping them off to grow healed ones would have been graphic but creative.

I guess I'm just confused on the shows stance of the technique. Is it dangerous or can it be mastered to not be harmful? Why only teach Goku, when everyone else shares techniques?

[KBABZ]

In the case of Goku, he was visiting King Kai with an explicit and just purpose, so learning those two techniques was justified (and Goku was more than talented enough to learn them). In regards to Piccolo, Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu arriving later, they didn't really have a similar motivation going for them other than improving their fighting ability, so there wasn't much reason for King Kai to teach them those techniques.

[Lek]

Also, what the heck is King Kai that he can develop a technique that can rip apart muscle fibers like that? He's a godly bugman ok, but he has to have some sort of regenerative capabilities of his own to cope with what it does. I mean the creativity of merging the Saiyan zenkai boost with a technique that can kill them is brilliant. Goku gets stronger even when he wins, but that coupling was accidental. King Kai didn't know that.

To be honest I was always under the impression that even though King Kai developed these techniques, he might not necessarily be able to utilize them himself. In my mind he is great in coming up with these techniques, but is not on a level needed to execute them. And that was why he gladly taught Goku.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Also, what the heck is King Kai that he can develop a technique that can rip apart muscle fibers like that? He's a godly bugman ok, but he has to have some sort of regenerative capabilities of his own to cope with what it does. I mean the creativity of merging the Saiyan zenkai boost with a technique that can kill them is brilliant. Goku gets stronger even when he wins, but that coupling was accidental. King Kai didn't know that.

To be honest I was always under the impression that even though King Kai developed these techniques, he might not necessarily be able to utilize them himself. In my mind he is great in coming up with these techniques, but is not on a level needed to execute them. And that was why he gladly taught Goku.

I remember reading some old posts that claimed that Kaio-sama said Goku used the Kaio-ken better than he did.

Can anyone verify this?

[dbgtFO]

I remember reading some old posts that claimed that Kaio-sama said Goku used the Kaio-ken better than he did.

Can anyone verify this?

That was certainly a false claim. Kaio in fact hadn't even mastered the technique and so was excited with the prospect of Goku doing it.

[Michsi]

The frustration of why for the love of Dende won't nobody else try to learn the Kaioken is an old one. Piccolo might not have stayed with King Kai long enough, but Tenshinhan and Yamcha definitely did, and they arrived at his doorstep stronger than Goku was when he first met King Kai.

But if you think about it, you can find reasonable explanations for why they never learned the Kaioken too. I think it's safe to say that saiyans are way sturdier than earthlings so their bodies might be able to handle a sudden and unnatural increase in energy far better than a human. Could be that they tried and the results turned out too bloody for their liking.

Piccolo is an interesting case, since you'd think that his advanced healing abilities might be used to counter the damage done by the Kaioken, but again, he at least wasn't around King Kai long enough.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Goku hasn't used KK recklessly has he did since his fight with Hit, he's only been using it in short bursts and only sustained period of time he uses it seems to be regular Kaioken level.

[Lionel]

I think Toriyama neglected to consider giving it to them because they were being phased out of the narrative at that time. One in-universe explanation for King Kai neglecting to teach them is that they had no substantive reason for learning it like Goku did. Well wasn't King Kai aware of Vegeta's intentions to return to Earth after recuperating? Everyone who was involved in the original fight would have had grounds to request being given the tools needed to defend themselves and their homeland. It would be awfully prejudicial of King Kai to help Goku in his aspiration for growing strong enough to defeat the Saiyans while not giving his other pupils the same opportunity. Oh, but what about personal durability? Well I suspect Tenshinhan and the others to have greater physical resilience at power levels numbering in the quintuple digits than a Goku who was only just over 8000. These characters have already traveled all across the globe, exposing themselves to every kind of environment and climate in the book while surviving and returning to participate in tournaments. Plus, ki control is just as important as endurance. Piccolo and the earthlings should be more than equipped in that area as well.

From my perspective, the likely truth is that Toriyama was probably looking to shift his attentions over to the new and "impressive" looking Super Saiyan form. It's easier to ink in. Plus, with a less various cast the workload will be lessened. So the most expendable of the cast was given the boot. Why invest the time and effort needed to put the earthlings on par with the Saiyans when they're not even as beloved as them by the fans? It was convenient for Toriyama.

[theherodjl]

I think Toriyama neglected to consider giving it to them because they were being phased out of the narrative at that time. One in-universe explanation for King Kai neglecting to teach them is that they had no substantive reason for learning it like Goku did. Well wasn't King Kai aware of Vegeta's intentions to return to Earth after recuperating? Everyone who was involved in the original fight would have had grounds to request being given the tools needed to defend themselves and their homeland. It would be awfully prejudicial of King Kai to help Goku in his aspiration for growing strong enough to defeat the Saiyans while not giving his other pupils the same opportunity. Oh, but what about personal durability? Well I suspect Tenshinhan and the others to have greater physical resilience at power levels numbering in the quintuple digits than a Goku who was only just over 8000. These characters have already traveled all across the globe, exposing themselves to every kind of environment and climate in the book while surviving and returning to participate in tournaments. Plus, ki control is just as important as endurance. Piccolo and the earthlings should be more than equipped in that area as well.

From my perspective, the likely truth is that Toriyama was probably looking to shift his attentions over to the new and "impressive" looking Super Saiyan form. It's easier to ink in. Plus, with a less various cast the workload will be lessened. So the most expendable of the cast was given the boot. Why invest the time and effort needed to put the earthlings on par with the Saiyans when they're not even as beloved as them by the fans? It was convenient for Toriyama.

I kinda think that Goku can't teach Kaio-ken because maybe it was merely a power up unique to Kaio and transferred it to Goku only? It would certainly explain why no one has even attempted to ask about it again let alone learn it, the best explanation besides "Toriyama was lazy lulz!"

[LightBing]

If even the creator of the technique(who's a God) can use it properly, it wouldn't be that shocking that Tenshinhan, Yamcha and Chiaotzu couldn't either.

That's what I think happened, Goku was the only one able to master Kaioken. A technique so great only the prodigy of prodigies was able to learned it. It's certainly more interesting than giving everyone everything because they got "strong enough".

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Tenshinhan said he's can't surpass Goku witj the same training and he's gonna master the basic and mix with his own techniques, so it's possible he just didn't want to master it.

It's possible they just never got strong enough, but that would imply Tenshinhan and Yamcha are still below the likes of 8k Goku, what i find unlikely.

[Kaboom]

It's an age-old and as of yet not-officially-answered question, but there's a few ideas I've always favored.

1) Like Michsi beat me to pointing out, I think Goku being a Saiyan may have been to thank. It's a pretty sound assumption that Saiyans are just naturally built of tougher stuff than Earthlings, what with thriving in 10x Earth's gravity even as babies and all. So it'd make sense if it takes that naturally tough physique to handle an inherently straining and self-destructive technique like the Kaio-Ken.

Therefore normal and relatively-fragile Earthlings like Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chaozu simply wouldn't have the physical durability to ever use the Kaio-Ken. Likewise, the Core-People like Kaio seem more about mystical abilities rather than brute physical attributes, and Namekians (even Warrior-types) are all about recovery and regeneration rather than durability. So it would also fly that neither Kaio or Piccolo could learn it either.

2) Like Lionel kinda-sort beat me to pointing out, there wasn't really any need for the Earthlings to learn the Kaio-Ken. When Goku learned it along with the Spirit Bomb, it was because he was anticipating a big, crucial battle wherein even after Kaio's training he'd still most likely be outclassed. So Goku needed to have a few big, extra-effective desperation attacks under his belt for when that time came. None of that is the case for the Earthlings — they're on Kaio's simply because they want to get stronger, like Goku did. Also, once the crisis on Namek was over, there was no way any of them were going to be helpful in a direct fight compared to the Super Saiyans and merged Namekian fighting for Earth. There could be value in one of them learning the Spirit Bomb, but a direct strength-related technique like the Kaio-Ken wouldn't do them any good.

3) Finally, like LightBing beat me to pointing out, it may simply just be that tricky of a technique to the point that only the prodigy protagonist can get the hang of it.

So put all of those points together: Saiyan physiology, a potential need to match up to stronger characters, and that certain protagonist quality... Then as far as candidates to learn the Kaio-Ken from Goku go, we're left with one standout character in particular. This one.

[Lionel]

I attribute Goku's ambiance of being an unreputed prodigy to sequential happenstance more often than not. So many of the trainers and conditions that he works with come before anyone else has a chance to try. There are some occasions like with Goku learning to acclimate to Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Blue that distinguishably help to portray him in an innovative manner, but such feats are usually replicated by those around him afterwards and they're the exception, not the rule. In fights, I think most of the ones where the levels were even and aptitude was the determinant for who wins in the original Dragon Ball contained some peculiar outside factor that enabled him to get the better of his opponent -- with Jackie Chun it was Bulma waking him up before the countdown finished, against Tenshinhan he stole Roshi's sunglasses in order to protect his eyes from the Taiyoken (though granted Tenshinhan also benefited from Chaozu's arm-twisted assistance), and then against Daimao he had both the Power Pole and Tenshinhan to help him survive an opponent who was unarmed and on his own. Goku has a few bouts like against his grandfather and Yajirobe where he had no outside assistance, but those tended to end on an undetermined note. Generally when Goku managed to win it was thanks to superior power. He's definitely a gifted fighter, but the exact gap between himself and others' potential in that respect seems questionable, in my opinion.

Now for the physiology aspect -- earthlings are certainly capable of building up their bodies to the point where their durability is incredible. When I compare & contrast Goku being crippled on the ground screaming in pain after having his lung perforated by Piccolo versus Tenshinhan having his arm bludgeoned so severely that it's dismembered from the ulna bone all the way down to the hand by a fighter that was at least a few times stronger than him while still managing to gather enough of his bearings to avoid a follow-up attack immediately afterwards, I do have to question the idea of just how physically resilient the Saiyans actually are. Both injuries were grievous and you can argue which one was worse under the circumstances, but Tenshinhan did appear to be in better condition afterwards, all things considered. Plus, you've got Tagoma going from a laughably outdated standard of Zarbon/Dodoria to boasting about his "body of steel" and beating down Piccolo the Super Namekian within the span of four months. Why could something like that not be attained by the earthlings and then used for Kaioken harnessing?

[Akira]

Upon catching Bubbles in the manga, and hitting Gregory with the hammer in the anime, Kaio is filled with excitement because of how fast Son Goku completed the initial phase of his training. He thinks to himself that this student, this resilient saiyan, may be the one who can master the Kaio-ken or "Fist of Kaio" technique. One that he had envisioned as a possibility, but had never been able to master himself.

In one of the episode recaps in the original version of the series, Kaio is briefly seen demonstrating the basic concepts of the technique to Goku. In this brief scene, the two of them are flying around his planet, using a non power multiplying starting variant of the move. Kaio has set up stone barriers around the driving road on his planet, and the two of them are using the move to destroy them out of their way. Kaio himself quickly runs out of stamina and falls to the wayside, but watches astonished as Goku rapidly moves from barrier to barrier and destroys the rest of them single handedly. This is the only glimpse in any media where we see a bit of the training involved in learning the Kaioken.

Going by the anime, we know that there are other fighters from over the centuries that have trained with Kaio, but apparently not even any of them were ever able to master the Kaioken. He saw promise in Goku, someone he could teach his ultimate techniques to. Kaio's techniques are not for the feint at heart, as they are life or death desperation moves, and not your standard ki technique fare. It was as much giving Goku the tools he needed to stand a chance against the saiyans, as it was fulfilling Kaio's own desire to see someone be able to master and use Kaioken as he envisioned it.

There are factors that are there in the story that make Goku uniquely capable of doing this, where other characters would most certainly fail. First is indeed that extreme saiyan durability that other have mentioned. That gives him the edge over human characters or even Piccolo. However, what makes it so Goku can master it but say someone like Vegeta probably could not? Vegeta has saiyan durability too, so what gives Goku the capability over him? Well, Vegeta's early training and battles were with other Saiyans, and then under the command of Freeza's empire. It was all about battle power numbers, and overpowering opponents with lower numbers. Never on training every aspect, but on raising your "power level" or ki high enough to dominate someone else. It took him a long time to break from this and realize that he had to focus his mind and his body as well.

Goku's early training was from Master Roshi, and along side Krillin, the two of them were trained in extreme endurance methods. Roshi never taught them any of the many ki manipulation techniques he knew, nor the deadly arts that he knew (at least not until Goku sought the Mafuba in Dragonball S) They learned the Kamehameha by seeing it and mimicking it. The core of Roshi's training was making them the toughest physically that they could be. Making them capable of playing the long game, able to last long enough in battle to come up with a strategy to win, and maybe still have enough stamina to pull it off. Grounded in these training methods made them two of the toughest characters in the entire series. Krillin may be a mere human, but on his case alone, think of how many times he took blows from characters way stronger than him, and yet was not instantly killed. May have needed a senzu to get up again, but the point is, he survived some attacks that most assuredly would have killed others instantly. (Nappa, Recoome, and Dr. Gero are three such instances of being attacked, and living through it that I can recall off the top of my head)

Think of when Vegeta fought Freeza, realized he was outclassed, out of power, and out of stamina. There was also a pre-programmed psychological component to it as well, but he gave up and took a beating, and ultimately wound up killed. Freeza tried some of those same moves on Goku (tail around the neck, finger lasers, etc.) yet Goku kept getting back up again and again. Or, the battle with Kid Buu, Vegeta was capable of Super Saiyan 2, but Buu hit hard, and was able to beat him down a lot faster than Goku, who fought Buu (in the anime) in Super Saiyan 2 and 3, and was able to withstand many of the blows and keep going for much longer before tiring out. These are all later series examples of their individual training philosophies, and how they improved. Goku and Krillin were simply just the toughest, even if not necessarily always the most powerful of their respective races.

Also was Goku's training with Karin and Mr. Popo important factors. Karin taught him proper breathing techniques, and how to read an opponent's movements visually, and Mr. Popo taught him how to sense ki and read movements based on that without the need of sight. Popo, or a combination of Kami and Popo, taught Goku how to control his ki, suppress it, and raise it instantly at the moment he attacked. Advanced control of his ki, built up from visually reading and understanding someone's breathing and movements, constructed upon a solid foundation of extreme endurance training regimens, made Goku uniquely qualified and capable of learning the Kaioken.

A technique that required one to raise their ki in an instant to double their power, and strike in an near instantaneous burst, then return to normal before destroying themselves with it was something only Goku alone could possibly learn and master. He was the only one with the right mix of previous training, genetic pre-disposition, and trustworthy enough to be taught such a devastating technique. That is why only he wields it.

Now, aside from that lengthy in universe explanation, it would be easy to label it "protagonist privilege" or something along those lines. Yet, I believe I have offered a long winded enough satisfactory reason why Goku alone has this technique. Kaio didn't teach it to anyone else, because it wasn't just a matter of being strong enough to use it or learn it, it was a matter of having all the right traits and previously mastered building blocks to even be able to do it.

On the matter of the Genki Dama, that thing could just level a planet if mis-used, and again, someone would have to be tough enough to possibly endure a beating while they powered it up properly. I don't believe Goku alone could learn this one, but I think Kaio selected him alone for it. We saw that Krillin was able to wield it when Goku passed it to him, so it stands to reason that Krillin at least could have potentially learned it. There was no need for him to though. Kaio even said Goku was only to use it under the most dire circumstances, and even then, was only permitted to use it once. You don't want a bunch of characters running around with a technique that borrows life energy to form its mass. It is equally devastating, and as we saw in the Buu fight, potentially lethal to the donors if too much energy is pulled from them. (This didn't happen of course, but the danger is mentioned then.)

>> Too Long ; Didn't Read ADD crowd: In Universe explanation > Goku alone was had the unique training building blocks and genetic pre-disposition combination to determine him alone as the only character who could learn Kaioken. Out of Universe explanation > Um, let's just go with Protagonist Privilege I suppose..