Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

[dragon boss z]

In Super, Gohan states that First Form Freeza was as strong as him when his power was unlocked by Elder Kai

I'm almost certain Gohan didn't say this. The only think I can think of similar to this is Gohan saying Tagoma could be hiding power close to his own which was mistranslated to his all time best, which clearly was false as Tagoma/Ginyu lost to a rusty ssj Gohan.

I've rewatched the episode and there's no such quote, my bad. I believe it could have been from the movie though.

Anyway, like other people have said, Base Vegeta beat SSJ3 Gotenks without even trying, so that should give you an idea of how strong Super characters are compared to GT characters.

overall I do think GT characters are weaker. Imo ssj4 Goku is around initial SSG Goku or current ssj3 Goku, while ssj4 Gogeta is around Blue kaioken Goku level.

[sunsetshimmer]

Imo ssj4 Goku is around initial SSG Goku or current ssj3 Goku, while ssj4 Gogeta is around Blue kaioken Goku level.

Where is the logic here?
SSJ DBS Goku was proved to be weaker than base GT Goku from Baby saga.
How can SSJ3 DBS Goku be on SSJ4 GT Goku level?

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Imo ssj4 Goku is around initial SSG Goku or current ssj3 Goku, while ssj4 Gogeta is around Blue kaioken Goku level.

Where is the logic here?
SSJ DBS Goku was proved to be weaker than base GT Goku from Baby saga.
How can SSJ3 DBS Goku be on SSJ4 GT Goku level?

Nothing of the sort was proven.

SS2 Goku easily took on an improved Ultimate Gohan that was stronger than his original Ultimate self before he decided to use his full power against SSB Goku. This is SS2 Goku multiplying his power from a base form at the very least stronger than SS3 Gotenks.

[sunsetshimmer]

Nothing of the sort was proven.

SS2 Goku easily took on an improved Ultimate Gohan that was stronger than his original Ultimate self before he decided to use his full power against SSB Goku. This is SS2 Goku multiplying his power from a base form at the very least stronger than SS3 Gotenks.

Gohan didn't get any stronger. It was stated by both Piccolo and narrator than he regained his OLD power. The one he used against Buu. Then he trained for few hours.
And yes, it was proven.

The first picture:
SSJ Goku struggles with Ultimate Gohan

The second picture:
Base Goku beats SSJ Gohan

The difference?
Base GT Gohan was stated (series+interview+databook) to be at least equal to DBZ (and so DBS) Ultimate Gohan.
And before you say that Goku was holding back in Super, so he was in GT. But DBS Goku actually was forced to transform further to beat Gohan.
SSJ GT Vegeta was still stronger than SSJ Baby Gohan who was A LOT stronger than regular Gohan considering SSJ Baby Vegeta was unfazed by SSJ3 Goku's attacks.

Base GT Goku (Baby saga) is stronger than SSJ3 DBS Goku (ToP saga).

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

In the episode mentioned, Piccolo said he didn't believe Ultimate Gohan's reawakened power was his limit and so helped him to train up.

We later see that Ultimate Gohan can fight against opponents at SSB Goku's level, albeit at a bit of a power disadvantage.

As well, Gohan in Dragon Ball GT is only stated to have not stopped training; his Ultimate power was said to be triggered like turning Super Saiyan by Elder Kaioshin in the original manga. We later see in Dragon Ball Super when Gohan reawakens Ultimate that his SS2 form evolves into his Ultimate form, implying that Ultimate cannot have SS forms stacked on top of it. Thus, with no point of reference for whether or not the Ultimate power works differently in this continuity, we cannot assume that SS Gohan in GT has SS on top of Ultimate, and instead it's safer to presume that he's only using his regular base power with SS.

Apparently, this base power with SS, even with Baby's influence, is inferior to Goku's base power.

Not to mention that in Resurrection of F Goku was equal to Final Form Freeza, who himself was much stronger than SS Gohan who was stronger than Piccolo in his base form, all whilst Freeza was only in his First Form. And Goku has only gotten stronger since then.

[theherodjl]

Imo ssj4 Goku is around initial SSG Goku or current ssj3 Goku, while ssj4 Gogeta is around Blue kaioken Goku level.

Where is the logic here?
SSJ DBS Goku was proved to be weaker than base GT Goku from Baby saga.
How can SSJ3 DBS Goku be on SSJ4 GT Goku level?

Base Goku & Vegeta in DBS are stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks as seen in episode 45, Gotenks couldn't even score any damage whatsoever towards a copy of Base Vegeta. I'd dare say that DBS Goku & Vegeta are on par with Bootenks, Boohan, or Janemba just in their base forms.

[sunsetshimmer]

In the episode mentioned, Piccolo said he didn't believe Ultimate Gohan's reawakened power was his limit and so helped him to train up.

We later see that Ultimate Gohan can fight against opponents at SSB Goku's level, albeit at a bit of a power disadvantage.

As well, Gohan in Dragon Ball GT is only stated to have not stopped training; his Ultimate power was said to be triggered like turning Super Saiyan by Elder Kaioshin in the original manga. We later see in Dragon Ball Super when Gohan reawakens Ultimate that his SS2 form evolves into his Ultimate form, implying that Ultimate cannot have SS forms stacked on top of it. Thus, with no point of reference for whether or not the Ultimate power works differently in this continuity, we cannot assume that SS Gohan in GT has SS on top of Ultimate, and instead it's safer to presume that he's only using his regular base power with SS.

Apparently, this base power with SS, even with Baby's influence, is inferior to Goku's base power.

Not to mention that in Resurrection of F Goku was equal to Final Form Freeza, who himself was much stronger than SS Gohan who was stronger than Piccolo in his base form, all whilst Freeza was only in his First Form. And Goku has only gotten stronger since then.

Base GT Goku was stronger than 4th form Frieza and Perfect Cell with the difference that Frieza and Cell trained for years, not 4 months.

Ultimate being a form wasn't a thing until Super. Even early Battle of Gods version had Ultimate SSJ Gohan on poster and trailers.
For some reason, GT Gohan's base was meant to be Ultimate. TOEI threated it like a fixed boost, not transformation.
In one of the invterviews it was stated that Gohan in DBZ became Ultimate Gohan and as a "super-warrior" he fought Buu. It was also stated that GT Gohan came back as the same "super-warrior" to fight Super 17. Yet, he was still using SSJ.
So Gohan's base in GT was in fact meant to be what was known as Ultimate Gohan in Buu saga.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

In the episode mentioned, Piccolo said he didn't believe Ultimate Gohan's reawakened power was his limit and so helped him to train up.

We later see that Ultimate Gohan can fight against opponents at SSB Goku's level, albeit at a bit of a power disadvantage.

As well, Gohan in Dragon Ball GT is only stated to have not stopped training; his Ultimate power was said to be triggered like turning Super Saiyan by Elder Kaioshin in the original manga. We later see in Dragon Ball Super when Gohan reawakens Ultimate that his SS2 form evolves into his Ultimate form, implying that Ultimate cannot have SS forms stacked on top of it. Thus, with no point of reference for whether or not the Ultimate power works differently in this continuity, we cannot assume that SS Gohan in GT has SS on top of Ultimate, and instead it's safer to presume that he's only using his regular base power with SS.

Apparently, this base power with SS, even with Baby's influence, is inferior to Goku's base power.

Not to mention that in Resurrection of F Goku was equal to Final Form Freeza, who himself was much stronger than SS Gohan who was stronger than Piccolo in his base form, all whilst Freeza was only in his First Form. And Goku has only gotten stronger since then.

Base GT Goku was stronger than 4th form Frieza and Perfect Cell with the difference that Frieza and Cell trained for years, not 4 months.

Ultimate being a form wasn't a thing until Super. Even early Battle of Gods version had Ultimate SSJ Gohan on poster and trailers.
For some reason, GT Gohan's base was meant to be Ultimate. TOEI threated it like a fixed boost, not transformation.
In one of the invterviews it was stated that Gohan in DBZ became Ultimate Gohan and as a "super-warrior" he fought Buu. It was also stated that GT Gohan came back as the same "super-warrior" to fight Super 17. Yet, he was still using SSJ.
So Gohan's base in GT was in fact meant to be what was known as Ultimate Gohan in Buu saga.

Unlike Resurrection of F, we have no frame of reference for how strong that continuity's Freeza and Cell were.

With regards to Gohan, he was called that "super-warrior" and yet was a Super Saiyan. With no direct statement that says different, the mechanics of Ultimate should still be the same. If anything, your comment on that interview could refer to Gohan AS A SUPER SAIYAN being the same super-warrior as his Ultimate self against Super Buu.

Also, some dialogue that happens in a Parallel Quest in Dragon Ball: Xenoverse implies that SS4 may have power that could make Beerus believe he was fighting a SSG. There's a distinct uncertainty in the comparison between SSG and SS4, implying that these two forms are potentially equivalent, rather than SS4 and SSB. Which honestly makes sense, if SSB Goku right now can on the much stronger SS4 Xeno Goku.

[Saiyan007]

Which characters in GT can destroy a Universe with one shot again?

All that needs to be said lol

[GorgonMK]

Imo ssj4 Goku is around initial SSG Goku or current ssj3 Goku, while ssj4 Gogeta is around Blue kaioken Goku level.

Where is the logic here?
SSJ DBS Goku was proved to be weaker than base GT Goku from Baby saga.
How can SSJ3 DBS Goku be on SSJ4 GT Goku level?

Base Goku & Vegeta in DBS are stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks as seen in episode 45, Gotenks couldn't even score any damage whatsoever towards a copy of Base Vegeta. I'd dare say that DBS Goku & Vegeta are on par with Bootenks, Boohan, or Janemba just in their base forms.

As seen in "Dragon Ball: Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!" it is seen that Trunks and Goten are weaker than 100% Frieza. Because DBS takes place "Some time" after this special, it is safe to assume that both Trunks' and Goten's power level dropped, this makes Gotenks significantly weaker than its original self. I would even dare to say that he couldn't defeat Majin Boo (The original fat one) now. Also that copy might have special abilities because Goku should've defeated that Vegeta with no problem but they were equal until crystal broke.

[sunsetshimmer]

Which characters in GT can destroy a Universe with one shot again?

All that needs to be said lol

List of universal characters in each series:

DB:
none

DBZ:
none

DBGT:
none

DBS:
-Zeno
-Future Zeno

What does it prove? Nothing.

[Xeogran]

What does it prove? Nothing.

People still take the overglorified "Beerus vs Goku punches destroying the universe" statement for granted, even though it was shown to be not true many times in the actual series already.

Also, if we're using videogames, then in Xenoverse SSJ4 Gogeta believes he can take on Beerus. That's enough to show that GT character aren't like millions of years weaker than Super.

[Polyphase Avatron]

What does it prove? Nothing.

People still take the overglorified "Beerus vs Goku punches destroying the universe" statement for granted, even though it was shown to be not true many times in the actual series already.

Also, if we're using videogames, then in Xenoverse SSJ4 Gogeta believes he can take on Beerus. That's enough to show that GT character aren't like millions of years weaker than Super.

Why would we be using video games? As was already pointed out, in the games for the most part, any character can take on any other character.

And the difference between Goku and Beerus threatening the universe and Zeno is that the former could have wiped out everything in it leaving it empty, while the latter can erase it completely. This makes Zeno much more powerful, but Goku and Beerus' power in that fight is still greater than anything in GT. The closest is Omega Shenron's dark energy creating a reaction that would eventually do the same thing, but he had no control over that and it would take much longer.

[Bullza]

DBS:
-Zeno
-Future Zeno

And Beerus and Champa so presumably all other Gods of Destruction and then also all the Angels as they'd be more powerful. Then Toppo, Kefla, Vegeta, Goku and Jiren.

So a good 30 characters.

[Dbzfan94]

DBS:
-Zeno
-Future Zeno

And Beerus and Champa so presumably all other Gods of Destruction and then also all the Angels as they'd be more powerful. Then Toppo, Kefla, Vegeta, Goku and Jiren.

So a good 30 characters.

Where are you getting this info from

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

DBS:
-Zeno
-Future Zeno

And Beerus and Champa so presumably all other Gods of Destruction and then also all the Angels as they'd be more powerful. Then Toppo, Kefla, Vegeta, Goku and Jiren.

So a good 30 characters.

Where are you getting this info from

He's talking about how the Hakaishin are noted for being a danger to their Universes if they fight with one another, and how other characters approaching their level could also potentially be Universe destroyers.

[sunsetshimmer]

DBS:
-Zeno
-Future Zeno

And Beerus and Champa so presumably all other Gods of Destruction and then also all the Angels as they'd be more powerful. Then Toppo, Kefla, Vegeta, Goku and Jiren.

So a good 30 characters.

Hahaha. What's next? Jaco is universal as well?
Beerus isn't universal. Destroying everything in universe, even in single attack (which he can't even do) is NOT being universal.
He can't do the same kind of technique Zeno used to destroy entire timeline of Trunks so only void was left after universes.
And don't even make me laugh with saying that Kefla, Goku or Vegeta are even close to being universal. They are not.

Even Buuhan was "universal" in the same way as Goku or Beerus are. This is nothing impressive. The only difference is that Beerus would make it much faster.

[Bullza]

[Hahaha. What's next? Jaco is universal as well?
Beerus isn't universal. Destroying everything in universe, even in single attack (which he can't even do) is NOT being universal.
He can't do the same kind of technique Zeno used to destroy entire timeline of Trunks so only void was left after universes.
And don't even make me laugh with saying that Kefla, Goku or Vegeta are even close to being universal. They are not.

Even Buuhan was "universal" in the same way as Goku or Beerus are. This is nothing impressive. The only difference is that Beerus would make it much faster.

It highly implied that both he and Champa were going to destroy the Universe with a single ball of energy back in Chapter 6 of the Dragon Ball Super manga. That was exactly why Whis and Vados intervened and knocked them out after they said they didn't care about the Universe anymore.

Therefore the other Gods of Destruction and anyone stronger would be able to summon up the same amount of power to do the same.

Kefla said she could blow away an entire Universe with one blast and so Jiren and Goku who are more powerful would be able to as well.

A massively suppressed Beerus and Super Saiyan God Goku combined blasts creating an energy ball that was said would destroy the whole universe if it dispersed. That was why Beerus used his power to nullify it. So again anyone who alone could summon up an equivalent amount of power as that, which would be many characters, could do the same.

[Dbzfan94]

[

Kefla said she could blow away an entire Universe with one blast and so Jiren and Goku who are more powerful would be able to as well.

Keflas ego was also enormous. Not a great source. DB characters boast all the time

[Bullza]

Keflas ego was also enormous. Not a great source. DB characters boast all the time

Not usually about that they don't. Unless you want to claim it's one of those Cell moments when he said he could blow away a Solar System.

Some writer sat there and wrote down that Kefla could destroy a universe in one shot and they never contradicted it. So it doesn't make much sense to suddenly believe that the opposite is true and it was just written for the sake of it.