Dragon Ball Super's power levels are much lower than GT

[Hugo Boss]

However, in BOG, Goku said that fusion wouldn't work against the very heavily suppressed Beerus, yet Base Goku and Super Saiyan Goku fought against a much less suppressed Beerus and held his own.

We can certainly work around with this idea. If you have Base Goku (DBS) stronger than Vegetto, you can have him stronger than Rilld and possibly GT Goku as well. In another hand, someone else can say that your scenario is only possible if Base Goku is always using SSG’s power or in another words SSG’s power is greater than GT Goku, which still excludes SS4.

[Champa The Destroyer]

However, in BOG, Goku said that fusion wouldn't work against the very heavily suppressed Beerus, yet Base Goku and Super Saiyan Goku fought against a much less suppressed Beerus and held his own.

We can certainly work around with this idea. If you have Base Goku (DBS) stronger than Vegetto, you can have him stronger than Rilld and possibly GT Goku as well. In another hand, someone else can say that your scenario is only possible if Base Goku is always using SSG’s power or in another words SSG’s power is greater than GT Goku, which still excludes SS4.

Although we are excluding SS4, we still have to take into account that Goku in Super got at least 10 times stronger from the U6 Arc to the Future Trunks Arc and then got even stronger during the TOP.

[Koitsukai]

Rilld is seen facing Gohan and Uub I think in the Super 17 arc, I can't recall the details of those fights, but it should clear up what version of Boo he is equal to.

[Champa The Destroyer]

Rilld is seen facing Gohan and Uub I think in the Super 17 arc, I can't recall the details of those fights, but it should clear up what version of Boo he is equal to.

True. I haven't watched GT in a while but wasn't Rilldo fighting Base Gohan?

[Hugo Boss]

Although we are excluding SS4, we still have to take into account that Goku in Super got at least 10 times stronger from the U6 Arc to the Future Trunks Arc and then got even stronger during the TOP.

Okay, but even if Goku in Super has become dozens of times stronger, we still are clueless about how he compares to SS4. SSB is said to be SSG’s power combined with Super Saiyan. And even if we say it’s greater than SS Goku GT or in a more optimistic view SS3 Goku GT, he may only have surpassed Golden Oozaru Goku GT by the time of Future Trunks Arc. SS4 is a level above Golden Oozaru, so much it was more than a match for Golden Oozaru Baby, and it got even stronger in the Evil Dragons Arc.

Rilld is seen facing Gohan and Uub I think in the Super 17 arc, I can't recall the details of those fights, but it should clear up what version of Boo he is equal to.

True. I haven't watched GT in a while but wasn't Rilldo fighting Base Gohan?

Yes, but Gohan was in trouble. Oob was the one who defeated Rilld.

[theherodjl]

Okay, but even if Goku in Super has become dozens of times stronger, we still are clueless about how he compares to SS4. SSB is said to be SSG’s power combined with Super Saiyan. And even if we say it’s greater than SS Goku GT or in a more optimistic view SS3 Goku GT, he may only have surpassed Golden Oozaru Goku GT by the time of Future Trunks Arc. SS4 is a level above Golden Oozaru, so much it was more than a match for Golden Oozaru Baby, and it got even stronger in the Evil Dragons Arc.

A greatly exhausted Base Goku in DBS helped eliminate Limits-Surpassed Jiren, a feat greater than anything that SSJ4 Goku ever accomplished. Even if you want to say that Jiren was somewhere around or just below 1/10th of his strength then that is still greater than SSJB Goku, a level that surpasses any SSJ4 that we've seen.

[Onikage725]

Freeza in his first form blows up planet vegeta with ease and yet he is literally using 200x more power and he fails to blow up Namek in one shot.

Just as a brief note- that's not a great example for an inconsistency. First, as was pointed out, Freeza subconsciously held back. This is stated during the fight, it's not interpretation. Goku promptly calls him out on it, Freeza drops the time limit, Goku boasts its more than enough, and this leads to Freeza bargaining for time to reach his 100% level.

Second, you're comparing the power levels, but ignoring that he employed two very different techniques. With Namek, he fired a condensed shot in an effort to detonate the core. Given his miscalculation and the ensuing five minutes, he tried to run a numbers game and fudged his math. Against Planet Vegeta, he simply overcharged a Death Ball and slammed it into the planet like a planetary wrecking ball. If he'd done that in Namek, he wouldn't have messed up- but the problem there is that method takes time. He likely would have been worried about Goku dispelling it (as we later see when he tries this on Earth and Trunks casually thwarts him).

[Hugo Boss]

Okay, but even if Goku in Super has become dozens of times stronger, we still are clueless about how he compares to SS4. SSB is said to be SSG’s power combined with Super Saiyan. And even if we say it’s greater than SS Goku GT or in a more optimistic view SS3 Goku GT, he may only have surpassed Golden Oozaru Goku GT by the time of Future Trunks Arc. SS4 is a level above Golden Oozaru, so much it was more than a match for Golden Oozaru Baby, and it got even stronger in the Evil Dragons Arc.

A greatly exhausted Base Goku in DBS helped eliminate Limits-Surpassed Jiren, a feat greater than anything that SSJ4 Goku ever accomplished. Even if you want to say that Jiren was somewhere around or just below 1/10th of his strength then that is still greater than SSJB Goku, a level that surpasses any SSJ4 that we've seen.

I don’t understand how does this accomplishment matter at all. Everyone here is exhausted. And there is no concrete way to calculate it.

[Dagon]

However, in BOG, Goku said that fusion wouldn't work against the very heavily suppressed Beerus, yet Base Goku and Super Saiyan Goku fought against a much less suppressed Beerus and held his own.

We can certainly work around with this idea. If you have Base Goku (DBS) stronger than Vegetto, you can have him stronger than Rilld and possibly GT Goku as well. In another hand, someone else can say that your scenario is only possible if Base Goku is always using SSG’s power or in another words SSG’s power is greater than GT Goku, which still excludes SS4.

You follow that "turn god ki on/off" i.e. the "two base" theory, don't you? That is an incorrect theory. Goku doesn't turn god ki on/off to amp his non-god forms. He's either suppressed or not. All forms below SSJG and SSJB only use mortal ki, but Goku and Vegeta's mortal ki has risen to extreme heights through Whis' special training.

When Goku loses the god form in the BoG arc, his power as SSJ1 is initially no less than his SSJG form, then he goes on to surpass that as the battle with Beerus continues. The Z fighters can feel that Goku has lost the god form because they can sense his ki, thus they know how strong he is.

RoF arc, base Goku and final form Freeza are fighting. Krillin says the battle is more terrifying than the battle with beerus. Thus Base Goku(RoF)>SSJ Goku BoG(post-god)>SSJG(BoG)

Then stack all the transformation multipliers on top of that.

Goku and Vegeta make improvements while training for 3 years prior to the U6 tournament.

Goku black's base form is initially on part with SSJ2 Goku, but later he takes an assault from Blue Vegeta with no visible damage. Then he turns SSJ Rose, which should be at least a 50x multiplier because Rose is Black's form of SSJ. Later on, Vegeta trains and surpasses a stronger Goku Black and overpowers him to the point that Black can hardly fight back.

Later on, Goku surpasses his previous SSJB Kaio-Ken x10 when he fights hit in a rematch without using Kaio-Ken. Thus SSJB Goku(Hit Rematch)>SSJB KKx10 Goku(U6 tournament)>SSJB Goku(RoF)>>>>>>Base Goku(RoF)>SSJ Goku BoG(post-god)>SSJG(BoG)

So Vegeta and Goku make quite a few leaps in power that GT might not be able to keep up with.

[theherodjl]

I don’t understand how does this accomplishment matter at all. Everyone here is exhausted. And there is no concrete way to calculate it.

What's not to understand? In what world would GT Goku be able to handle even an exhausted Jiren? GT Goku isn't even stronger than Vegetto from DBZ and that level has long since become obsolete by DBS's range of power, Goku even admitted that fusion would not be enough to handle the level used by a heavily suppressed Beerus to own him. Jiren is about on par with Beerus(since Jiren is stronger than Belmod, another Hakaishin) so this also translates to GT Goku not being able to handle a heavily suppressed or exhausted Jiren. DBS Goku on the other hand has managed to challenge Jiren even though he's in base form and exhausted himself.
You'd have to believe that Jiren and the others are now at a level comparable to DBZ Base Vegetto(which is easily several hundreds thousands of times weaker than Jiren) for GT Goku to stand a chance at being comparable enough as to question whether or not DBS Goku is stronger.

[Champa The Destroyer]

Although we are excluding SS4, we still have to take into account that Goku in Super got at least 10 times stronger from the U6 Arc to the Future Trunks Arc and then got even stronger during the TOP.

Okay, but even if Goku in Super has become dozens of times stronger, we still are clueless about how he compares to SS4. SSB is said to be SSG’s power combined with Super Saiyan. And even if we say it’s greater than SS Goku GT or in a more optimistic view SS3 Goku GT, he may only have surpassed Golden Oozaru Goku GT by the time of Future Trunks Arc. SS4 is a level above Golden Oozaru, so much it was more than a match for Golden Oozaru Baby, and it got even stronger in the Evil Dragons Arc.

Rilld is seen facing Gohan and Uub I think in the Super 17 arc, I can't recall the details of those fights, but it should clear up what version of Boo he is equal to.

True. I haven't watched GT in a while but wasn't Rilldo fighting Base Gohan?

Yes, but Gohan was in trouble. Oob was the one who defeated Rilld.

To form a comparison between Super and GT, we would have to first find out how strong SS4 is compared to Base form or even SS3. For all we know, SS4 could be 5 times stronger than SS3, or 500 times stronger.

Plus, if we take SS4 into account, we would also have to take into account SSBKK times 20, UI Omen, and MUI.

Do we know how strong Uub was at the time?

[Hugo Boss]

You follow that "turn god ki on/off" i.e. the "two base" theory, don't you? That is an incorrect theory.

I’m not sure how you assumed that. Despite not seeing any substance on this “numbers” theory, I don’t believe in “two base” theory. The theory I currently subscribe is that Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT belong to the same continuity. This is backed up by a Tadayoshi Yamamuro’s interview at Barcelona in 2015. So, having training all those years, Goku should definetely be a little stronger, no matter how strong he got in Super. Of course, you could say the Black Star Dragon Balls nerfed his strength, but SS4 may have retrieved a considerable part of it. Though, we don’t have confirmation one way or the other. Thus it being just a theory.

What's not to understand? In what world would GT Goku be able to handle even an exhausted Jiren?

How exactly you know how strong Jiren is when exhausted?

To form a comparison between Super and GT, we would have to first find out how strong SS4 is compared to Base form or even SS3. For all we know, SS4 could be 5 times stronger than SS3, or 500 times stronger.

Plus, if we take SS4 into account, we would also have to take into account SSBKK times 20, UI Omen, and MUI.

Do we know how strong Uub was at the time?

We don’t know the answers to any of these questions. The point is exactly this. Yet I’m seeing some users claiming they know what they are talking about without providing any back up.

[Champa The Destroyer]

You follow that "turn god ki on/off" i.e. the "two base" theory, don't you? That is an incorrect theory.

I’m not sure how you assumed that. Despite not seeing any substance on this “numbers” theory, I don’t believe in “two base” theory. The theory I currently subscribe is that Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT belong to the same continuity. This is backed up by a Tadayoshi Yamamuro’s interview at Barcelona in 2015. So, having training all those years, Goku should definetely be a little stronger, no matter how strong he got in Super. Of course, you could say the Black Star Dragon Balls nerfed his strength, but SS4 may have retrieved a considerable part of it. Though, we don’t have confirmation one way or the other. Thus it being just a theory.

What's not to understand? In what world would GT Goku be able to handle even an exhausted Jiren?

How exactly you know how strong Jiren is when exhausted?

To form a comparison between Super and GT, we would have to first find out how strong SS4 is compared to Base form or even SS3. For all we know, SS4 could be 5 times stronger than SS3, or 500 times stronger.

Plus, if we take SS4 into account, we would also have to take into account SSBKK times 20, UI Omen, and MUI.

Do we know how strong Uub was at the time?

We don’t know the answers to any of these questions. The point is exactly this. Yet I’m seeing some users claiming they know what they are talking about without providing any back up.

How can Super and GT be in the same continuity? Sorry, I don't have wifi at the moment, so I can't watch the interview. Furthermore, in an all out fight, we would have to take into account Goku moving without thinking in UI Omen and MUI.

[Hugo Boss]

How can Super and GT be in the same continuity? Sorry, I don't have wifi at the moment, so I can't watch the interview. Furthermore, in an all out fight, we would have to take into account Goku moving without thinking in UI Omen and MUI.

Yamamuro talks about SSG and SS4, but the main part is after 2:00 where he says there is a connection between the animated series, despite some characteristics of spin-off (talking about Dragon Ball GT). I have a feeling that Ultra Instinct is something Goku hasn’t free access, so I will concede on that.

[Champa The Destroyer]

How can Super and GT be in the same continuity? Sorry, I don't have wifi at the moment, so I can't watch the interview. Furthermore, in an all out fight, we would have to take into account Goku moving without thinking in UI Omen and MUI.

Yamamuro talks about SSG and SS4, but the main part is after 2:00 where he says there is a connection between the animated series, despite some characteristics of spin-off (talking about Dragon Ball GT). I have a feeling that Ultra Instinct is something Goku hasn’t free access, so I will concede on that.

Shouldn't Goku have access to MUI of he is pushed into a corner? I would think that if GT and Super were in the same continuity, then some things from Super would have to be in GT.

[theherodjl]

How exactly you know how strong Jiren is when exhausted?

How exactly do know that Jiren's power has dropped enough so that DBS's Base Goku's strength is up to debate as to whether he's stronger than GT Goku? Since when has anyone in DB dropped several tens of thousands of times weaker just from a fight? Its sorta illogical since Jiren has to have at least 1% of his strength left in order to still put up a fight, 1% of Jiren's strength is still quite a leap from most things seen in GT and definitely greater than anything seen in Z.

[Hugo Boss]

Shouldn't Goku have access to MUI of he is pushed into a corner? I would think that if GT and Super were in the same continuity, then some things from Super would have to be in GT.

Of course, but this is just a minor inconsistency.

How exactly you know how strong Jiren is when exhausted?

How exactly do know that Jiren's power has dropped enough so that DBS's Base Goku's strength is up to debate as to whether he's stronger than GT Goku? Since when has anyone in DB dropped several tens of thousands of times weaker just from a fight? Its sorta illogical since Jiren has to have at least 1% of his strength left in order to still put up a fight, 1% of Jiren's strength is still quite a leap from most things seen in GT and definitely greater than anything seen in Z.

I won’t pretend I understand this argument. He is not at full power, period. There is no way you can tell how much of his power he has available.

[Koitsukai]

Honestly asking what's wrong with ss4 being x10 because of the ohzaru and x50 because of the golden ohzaru? Goku goes ape and then turns SS, Pan cries and he snaps back out of it. Baby even acknowledges Goku is coming, never implying Goku's gotten stronger or things having changed in the least since he last saw him crashing mountains, expecting a Golden Ohzaru. Goku says he is now stronger but referring to when he went ss3(his last memory), because Goku never remembers when he goes ape, much less if he goes ss while ohzaru, so he couldn't be talking about his Golden Ohzaru form. I think SS4 is nothing more than a controlled golden ohzaru, not a step beyond. It depends on how strong the saiyan is, of course.

[Champa The Destroyer]

Shouldn't Goku have access to MUI of he is pushed into a corner? I would think that if GT and Super were in the same continuity, then some things from Super would have to be in GT.

Of course, but this is just a minor inconsistency.

How exactly you know how strong Jiren is when exhausted?

How exactly do know that Jiren's power has dropped enough so that DBS's Base Goku's strength is up to debate as to whether he's stronger than GT Goku? Since when has anyone in DB dropped several tens of thousands of times weaker just from a fight? Its sorta illogical since Jiren has to have at least 1% of his strength left in order to still put up a fight, 1% of Jiren's strength is still quite a leap from most things seen in GT and definitely greater than anything seen in Z.

I won’t pretend I understand this argument. He is not at full power, period. There is no way you can tell how much of his power he has available.

If SS4 Goku is somehow able to gain the upper hand against SSB Goku, he should reawaken MUI toward the end of the fight, something I'm not sure GT Goku could fight against.

I don't see how GT and Super can be in the same continuity if Supreme Kai and Kibito are still fused in GT, nobody has access or even mentions god forms, Beerus, Whis, Hit, etc don't appear at all, nothing mentions the 12 universes, there aren't Super Dragon Balls in GT and no Black Star Dragon Balls in Super. There are way too many inconsistencies to consider GT and Super to be in the same continuity imo.

[Hugo Boss]

I don't see how GT and Super can be in the same continuity if Supreme Kai and Kibito are still fused in GT, nobody has access or even mentions god forms, Beerus, Whis, Hit, etc don't appear at all, nothing mentions the 12 universes, there aren't Super Dragon Balls in GT and no Black Star Dragon Balls in Super. There are way too many inconsistencies to consider GT and Super to be in the same continuity imo.

These issues can be solved. Shin and Kibito may have needed to merge again. Due to lack of training Vegeta doesn’t use god ki anymore. The Black Star Dragon Balls caused some kind of ki disorder in Goku, so he can’t use god ki. Beerus entered in a long slumber. The other universes could have been erased in a further tragedy. Super Dragon Balls destroyed. Some little apparent continuity errors don’t automatically make a story split.