Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

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Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by Doctor. » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:49 pm

Sure, he wanted them dead, but he wanted them dead for the same reason he wanted the other Kaioshin dead: he wanted to be the sole God of the multiverse. I'm asking why he didn't have a deeper hatred for the Gods of Destruction in the same vein he had for mortals or Goku. Considering the Gods of Destruction are implied to be plain old mortals who got exceptionally strong after training with an Angel (you can infer this from Whis' propositions to Goku and Vegeta and Toppo being a GoD candidate), you'd think that a mortal becoming a God, and the most important of them all, would be the thing that would most incur Zamasu's wrath.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by Bruma rabu » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:17 pm

Perhaps because they were chosen by an angel. Another reason could be he had no idea, he was still training under Gowasu.
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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:29 pm

He probably thought that the Gods of Destruction, having been able to ascend to Godhood, were much worthier and more intelligent than the other mortals. Zamasu's hatred mortals derives from the fact that mortals are stupid and do not learn from their mistakes, they only fight and throw away the gifts granted to them by the Gods. But the Gods of Destruction managed to become divine, so Zamasu probably respected them or felt that they were not nearly as foolish as the other mortals. Gowasu is also a big reason of Zamasu's hatred for mortals. He showed him a planet of barbarians who achieved nothing in 1.000 years, whereas he should have showed him the Namekians, who were wise and peaceful mortals who would have definitely changed Zamasu's negative view of mortals.

In the end though, Zamasu hated the Gods of Destruction who would just get in the way of his plan, and believed that his utopian world needed only one supreme God: Himself. Which is why in the end the two Zamases decided to fuse into a single being, a single deity.

But, as a side note, do the Supreme Kais know that the Gods of Destruction were actually mortals? Maybe they kept that a secret to avoid creating confusion amongst the Gods.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:21 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:He probably thought that the Gods of Destruction, having been able to ascend to Godhood, were much worthier and more intelligent than the other mortals. Zamasu's hatred mortals derives from the fact that mortals are stupid and do not learn from their mistakes, they only fight and throw away the gifts granted to them by the Gods. But the Gods of Destruction managed to become divine, so Zamasu probably respected them or felt that they were not nearly as foolish as the other mortals. Gowasu is also a big reason of Zamasu's hatred for mortals. He showed him a planet of barbarians who achieved nothing in 1.000 years, whereas he should have showed him the Namekians, who were wise and peaceful mortals who would have definitely changed Zamasu's negative view of mortals.

In the end though, Zamasu hated the Gods of Destruction who would just get in the way of his plan, and believed that his utopian world needed only one supreme God: Himself. Which is why in the end the two Zamases decided to fuse into a single being, a single deity.

But, as a side note, do the Supreme Kais know that the Gods of Destruction were actually mortals? Maybe they kept that a secret to avoid creating confusion amongst the Gods.
There were probably no Namekians in the 10th Universe.
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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:48 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:He probably thought that the Gods of Destruction, having been able to ascend to Godhood, were much worthier and more intelligent than the other mortals. Zamasu's hatred mortals derives from the fact that mortals are stupid and do not learn from their mistakes, they only fight and throw away the gifts granted to them by the Gods. But the Gods of Destruction managed to become divine, so Zamasu probably respected them or felt that they were not nearly as foolish as the other mortals. Gowasu is also a big reason of Zamasu's hatred for mortals. He showed him a planet of barbarians who achieved nothing in 1.000 years, whereas he should have showed him the Namekians, who were wise and peaceful mortals who would have definitely changed Zamasu's negative view of mortals.

In the end though, Zamasu hated the Gods of Destruction who would just get in the way of his plan, and believed that his utopian world needed only one supreme God: Himself. Which is why in the end the two Zamases decided to fuse into a single being, a single deity.

But, as a side note, do the Supreme Kais know that the Gods of Destruction were actually mortals? Maybe they kept that a secret to avoid creating confusion amongst the Gods.
There were probably no Namekians in the 10th Universe.
Supreme Kais can teleport between Universes instantly, almost nothing is out of their reach. Gowasu has no excuse. Gowasu should have realized that showing a barbaric world to his troubled student would only have dire consequences. Both Universe 6 and Universe 7 had Namekians. He could have even had Zamasu witness the advanced civilization of Universe 3 -- even if those civilizations were not located in Universe 10, Zamasu at least would have understood that there are also mortals who do not throw away the gifts of the Gods, but instead use them to create beautiful and advanced civilizations. But, no, Gowasu chose to show Zamasu the worst possible planet ever. Zamasu might have been insane, but Gowasu was a garbage teacher too.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by Lionel » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:10 am

Hakaishin represent the evolved "gold" standard of mortality. Somehow they were able to garner the attention of higher beings who then proceeded to induct them into the fold as deities of the natural order. Given their position, they've sworn allegiance to the Omni-King's authority. They're probably so far removed from their lives as mortals that they don't even remember who they were.

Zamasu's initial reasoning for going after the other gods had to do with their inevitable retaliation against him for his actions. If he knew for certain that they wouldn't intervene then why kill them? He didn't kill Zuno despite having the opportunity to do so once he got the information he was looking for. Any neutrally aligned deities who weren't beholdened towards protecting mortaldom may have been shown clemency by Zamasu. Hakaishin and Kaioshin might be technically neutral when it comes to the internal affairs of creation but they obviously don't want mortals to be wiped out completely. Someone like Zuno who appears to keep to himself might reasonably be spared. Plus, regardless of his delusions of grandeur, Zamasu can't administrate for twelve universes and their individual afterlives all on his own. There needs to be some organisation and duty allocation to others. I could see him doing something to the tree that creates Shinjin that would enable him to cultivate members of his species who are loyal to his ideology. Imagine a radically changed species of Kaioshin who assume the authority of creator, overseer, and destroyer all in one -- that's probably what Zamasu may have ultimately intended.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by Meshack » Sun May 06, 2018 2:41 pm

Zamasu hated the humans and gods. Why the gods? Because they never did anything about the humans. About the Hakaishins specifically, he didn’t hate them. He just felt they didn’t do their job properly. They’re still gods even though they were once humans.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Mon May 07, 2018 3:57 pm

If an angel dies, so does its god of destruction. Zamasu probably didn't think them worthy to be hated given that he could kill them by killing their angels.
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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon May 07, 2018 3:59 pm

Well in Fighterz Black says to Beerus something like 'Another worthless God who allows mortals to exist', therefore I believe Zamasu hated the Gods of Destruction as well because they had the power to destroy all mortals and yet they allowed them to live. He hates them because they are useless Gods.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by shadowfox87 » Tue May 08, 2018 1:22 pm

Zamasu essentially wanted to do what Hakaishins did - destroy. He wasn't cut out for a job of a Kaioshin. We saw early on that Beerus went to different planets, destroying entire civilizations if he got irritated. He was responsible for the dinosaurs' extinction 65 million years ago. Zamasu saw a civilization with brute savages and went to 1000 years in the future with Gowasu - they were still savages. In his logic, he thought that these mortals are unnecessary and should be eliminated. The job of a Kaioshin however is to create and not to destroy. There's a balance of creation and destruction that decides the mortal level. Even later on, Zeno thought that eliminating entire universes for the sole purpose of keeping universes with high mortal levels was not a bad thing. Zamasu's logic was more extreme in that he wanted to eliminate all mortals, making the mortal level to 0 for each universe. So no, he didn't hate Hakaishins but he had to kill the Kaioshins of all universes so that the Hakaishins would not interfere. This is why he had to go to Future Trunks' timeline in the first place to find a timeline where Beerus is already dead (since Shin was killed by Babidi).
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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by Yuli Ban » Mon May 21, 2018 12:55 pm

From what I can understand, Zamasu is essentially a racist or god supremacist. When you're a supremacist, you don't automatically presume that all members of your kind are worthy— only those similar in morality to you.
Gods are essentially chosen. They have jobs. The Gods of Destruction destroy because that's their literal divine right.
Mortals, on the other hand, have the free will to choose and yet he only ever saw mortals destroying each other and claiming that they were like the gods, thus giving them the right to destroy even more.

Bringing in IRL religion and philosophy, both Abrahamic religions and Buddhism have a similar concept. In Abrahamic religions, the angels are divine creatures without free will. They are still sapient like you or I, but they are forever tied to the morality of Jehovah and only disobey if the are allowed to. This is why Satan is considered by theologians to be one of the most misunderstood angels— he disobeyed Jehovah, but that was literally his purpose the entire time.
Humans, however, are given free will to choose these things. But as you know if you live in a society that's culturally Christian or Islamic or Jewish, "God damns the sinners to Hell." So while you have free will, you're pressured to do the right thing or face consequences.

In Buddhism, it's a bit different. And considering Dragon Ball Z is drawing upon Buddhist concepts a lot of the time, this probably factors into it more. Buddhism isn't without gods per se; the point of the religion is just to achieve nirvana, so focusing on a divine hierarchy is besides the point. Gods and angels are essentially those who have achieved enlightenment or were created already having achieved it. They exist beyond the Wheel of Time (which is a Hindu concept). Boddhisatvas are those who achieve enlightenment but remain in the mortal realm to help others reach nirvana.
Everyone else is stuck in the Wheel of Time to keep trying to reach enlightenment in one life or another, which is why they are reincarnated after death and the karma of that soul determines what form they take in the next life. You know how they say that if you're an asshole in this life, you'll be reborn as a snake or a roach in the next? Thing is, Buddhism isn't like the Abrahamic religions where only humans have souls. Animals have souls too, and they are also capable of reaching enlightenment, so you have the chance of being reborn as a human higher on the wheel.


According to Zamasu, mortals are so violent that they will never escape their suffering and ignorance so they should be exterminated. What's more, the Gods of Destruction are too ignorant to see this, perhaps because they are blinded by their own destructive jobs and thus have, in some way, lost enlightenment by failing to recognize the darkness of mortals.
In this manner, it's more Zamasu trying to reinterpret what enlightenment and godhood means.

Or sumfink like that.
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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:51 pm

shadowfox87 wrote:Zamasu essentially wanted to do what Hakaishins did - destroy. He wasn't cut out for a job of a Kaioshin. We saw early on that Beerus went to different planets, destroying entire civilizations if he got irritated. He was responsible for the dinosaurs' extinction 65 million years ago. Zamasu saw a civilization with brute savages and went to 1000 years in the future with Gowasu - they were still savages. In his logic, he thought that these mortals are unnecessary and should be eliminated. The job of a Kaioshin however is to create and not to destroy. There's a balance of creation and destruction that decides the mortal level. Even later on, Zeno thought that eliminating entire universes for the sole purpose of keeping universes with high mortal levels was not a bad thing. Zamasu's logic was more extreme in that he wanted to eliminate all mortals, making the mortal level to 0 for each universe. So no, he didn't hate Hakaishins but he had to kill the Kaioshins of all universes so that the Hakaishins would not interfere. This is why he had to go to Future Trunks' timeline in the first place to find a timeline where Beerus is already dead (since Shin was killed by Babidi).
One problem with the statement that Beerus destroyed the dinosaurs is that there were dinosaurs before he was introduced into the franchise.

And I must agree with Zamasu being a god supremacist.
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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by shadowfox87 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:24 am

Hulk10 wrote: One problem with the statement that Beerus destroyed the dinosaurs is that there were dinosaurs before he was introduced into the franchise.

And I must agree with Zamasu being a god supremacist.
There was an episode in Dr. Slump where Senbei Norimaki went back in time to capture a dinosaur. Arale pushed back the meteor that seemingly caused the dinosaurs' extinction. That meteor became the moon and the dinosaurs' extinction thus, was prevented. Not sure if you want to count this as part of the reason why the Dinosaurs still exist. Obviously, if that happened, it would create a new timeline since he went back in time. Also, I don't think Beerus caused a meteor but rather his own blast. Perhaps a dinosaur or two survived in a cave and they reproduced.
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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:15 pm

Because they're still gods? Just like Kami is a god. He's seemingly not a Shinjin racial supremacist.
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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:05 pm

Zamasu seems little different than many of the Greek Gods and Goddesses.
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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by Waluigiman » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:30 am

He probably at first was okay with them until he realized how incompetent Rumshi was and maybe he later made the connection that the Hakaishin are not that different from mortals and it could be the other reason he killed them inderectly.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:54 am

Perhaps the obvious answer to that question is that we do not know because Zamasu never interacted directly with a God of Destructin. He only met Beerus (did he met Rumsshi?), and they said pretty basic stuff like "It's a pleasure to meet you" and "What brings you here?". So Zamasu never really had the chance to make up his mind about Gods of Destruction. And he never could, since he had to destroy them as part of his brilliant masterplan.

Maybe Zamasu thought that the Destroyers were actually better than the Supreme Kais. Since they had the role of destroying evil, instead of doing nothing and being useless.

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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by BrolyKale » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:01 am

I think he does in a way probably because they don't do their job well enough and let mortals like Babarians still live their life or like Saiyajins who dare challenge Gods and only think of fighting.
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Re: Why didn't Zamasu hate the Gods of Destruction?

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:56 pm

But Zamasu was not exactly in a position to make such calls as he did. The fact that he did shows a serious level of arrogance. I think he might have a God Complex, both due to his huge ego, and the fact he is a deity. Yes I realize I just made a potential pun.
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