Vegeta should be phased out now

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Koitsukai
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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:26 pm

There is still an unresolved matter involving Vegeta: Beerus ordering Freeza to blow up his planet. Even if Vegeta's reaction is his typical shrugging, I still would like to see that matter addressed.

Other way to rock Vegeta's boat would be to imitate real life and kill off Bulma, which I wouldn't like to see at all.

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by blain218 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:05 am

Why would anyone want a character as likable as Vegeta to be phased-out? That doesn't make any sense. Not only is that stupid from a writers standpoint, but from a marketing one too since Vegeta is just as popular as Goku.

There are at least 2 more major stories to do with his character: Visiting Planet Sadala and confronting Beerus about Planet Vegeta.

Also, Vegeta is the only character that is not only capable of being Goku's rival in the long term, but also the only one even interested in doing so. Vegeta shares the same potential, determination and life goals as Goku. No other character is better suited to by Goku's eternal rival.

Hell, Super ended with them facing off each other like in the Saiyan saga for a reason. Even Toriyama had them kill each other in Dragonball Online.

Threads like these are why I'm glad the fandom has no control of the direction of the franchise. Phasing out Vegeta would be like phasing out Goku (and we all know how that turned out). Its just a stupid, "jump the shark" idea.

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by PFM18 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:44 am

Koitsukai wrote:There is still an unresolved matter involving Vegeta: Beerus ordering Freeza to blow up his planet. Even if Vegeta's reaction is his typical shrugging, I still would like to see that matter addressed.

Other way to rock Vegeta's boat would be to imitate real life and kill off Bulma, which I wouldn't like to see at all.
I believe that beerus "ordering" was a mistranslation and the word was more meant to be "authorized" which makes sense because Freeza cant be destroying planets without permission because that is Beerus's job. And Beerus would have no reason to order the destruction of the Saiyan's planet.

Vegeta should stay because he is f****** Vegeta and he is an iconic character with by far the most developed character in the series

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by Professor Freeza » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:57 am

PFM18 wrote:
Koitsukai wrote:There is still an unresolved matter involving Vegeta: Beerus ordering Freeza to blow up his planet. Even if Vegeta's reaction is his typical shrugging, I still would like to see that matter addressed.

Other way to rock Vegeta's boat would be to imitate real life and kill off Bulma, which I wouldn't like to see at all.
I believe that beerus "ordering" was a mistranslation and the word was more meant to be "authorized" which makes sense because Freeza cant be destroying planets without permission because that is Beerus's job. And Beerus would have no reason to order the destruction of the Saiyan's planet.

Vegeta should stay because he is f****** Vegeta and he is an iconic character with by far the most developed character in the series

No. I believe Ordered is the correct word and Authorized is the bad dub change Funi did

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Bruma rabu
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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by Bruma rabu » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:28 am

Vegeta should not be phased out nor should any of the Dragon Ball characters.
Bulma is awesome... but chi-chi is best waifu :wink:

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by Puaru » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:35 pm

Vegeta should be phased out so that Gohan could get a chance to be cool again. Apparently the rule is that only Goku plus ONE other DBZ character gets to be important these days (along with a neverending slew of dumbass new characters like Beerus and Hit and other trash) and now it should be Gohans turn.

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by blain218 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:01 pm

Puaru wrote:Vegeta should be phased out so that Gohan could get a chance to be cool again. Apparently the rule is that only Goku plus ONE other DBZ character gets to be important these days (along with a neverending slew of dumbass new characters like Beerus and Hit and other trash) and now it should be Gohans turn.
It doesn't work that way. Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, 17 and 18 all got shine in the ToP, so you don't have much to complain about. Phasing out Vegeta (the 2nd most popular character and most developed) would be a stupid idea for every reason.

either way, Hit, Beerus and much of the newer cast are far more interesting characters than 90% of the human cast from DB(Z).

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by sangofe » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:27 am

TheMikado wrote:Vegeta is my favorite character and I want him dead at this point.

I like retired Vegeta far more than buddy cop Vegeta.
So you like GT Vegeta then?

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by blain218 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:35 pm

Professor Freeza wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Koitsukai wrote:There is still an unresolved matter involving Vegeta: Beerus ordering Freeza to blow up his planet. Even if Vegeta's reaction is his typical shrugging, I still would like to see that matter addressed.

Other way to rock Vegeta's boat would be to imitate real life and kill off Bulma, which I wouldn't like to see at all.
I believe that beerus "ordering" was a mistranslation and the word was more meant to be "authorized" which makes sense because Freeza cant be destroying planets without permission because that is Beerus's job. And Beerus would have no reason to order the destruction of the Saiyan's planet.

Vegeta should stay because he is f****** Vegeta and he is an iconic character with by far the most developed character in the series

No. I believe Ordered is the correct word and Authorized is the bad dub change Funi did
Its the other way around. They said ordered in the dub.

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by blain218 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:39 pm

Lionel wrote:I wouldn't say Vegeta is the only one. More appropriately, he's the only other fighter whom Toriyama is willing to offer any long-term investment for. All the tools necessary to make a comeback already exist for the once noteworthy Z-warriors. Why Toriyama doesn't choose to give them a much needed hand-up is anyone's guess. Maybe his tastes in storytelling have changed to where he prefers duets over an ensemble cast? Perhaps in his eyes, it would be too burdensome to write for 5-6 additional protagonists throughout their journey to grow and cultivate their fighting ambitions. Having Piccolo and the earthlings zip throughout the air with Kaioken auras trailing behind them might be a bit much, in his eyes. On the other hand, it's possible that he just doesn't remember anything about them or these tools. He may not have put the puzzle pieces together in order to realise the potential they still have. I'm personally leaning towards the latter explanation. It's a bit revolting, but what are you going to do?
Exactly. It makes no sense for a characters like Gohan and Piccolo to ever get phased out.

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by namekiansaiyan » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:48 pm

I like the idea of this if Vegeta gets replaced by at the top with Piccolo, Hit and Jiren and not someone like Gohan.

The 'rival' character should not be a Saiyan as that Saiyan will just be playing catch up to Goku.

There should be more than just Goku and Vegeta at the top as it makes things more interesting.

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by blain218 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:58 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:I like the idea of this if Vegeta gets replaced by at the top with Piccolo, Hit and Jiren and not someone like Gohan.

The 'rival' character should not be a Saiyan as that Saiyan will just be playing catch up to Goku.

There should be more than just Goku and Vegeta at the top as it makes things more interesting.
Saiyan characters are the only ones capable of being rivals to Goku in the long run, because saiyans have infinite potential and can keep improving forever while non-saiyans don't. That's why Piccolo got phased-out after the Cell Games.

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by blain218 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:07 pm

GamerSkull wrote:I think he should feature less prominently because I really am bored with the character now and I don't care for his rivalry with Goku either.

I guess if Freeza joins the group than he'd be a good replacement or introducing a new character to fill that role.
There is no way Freeza would ever join the group, let alone turn good. Freeza is what you would call a Complete Monster.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... DragonBall

The idea of a character like that reforming is not only unrealistic but contradicting his nature. Plus, Freeza isn't interested in being anyone's rival, his real interest is in rebuilding his empire and overthrowing the Gods. Besides, he has less development than Vegeta and Gohan, so I don't see how anyone can say Freeza is a more interesting character than those 2.

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by namekiansaiyan » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:29 pm

blain218 wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:I like the idea of this if Vegeta gets replaced by at the top with Piccolo, Hit and Jiren and not someone like Gohan.

The 'rival' character should not be a Saiyan as that Saiyan will just be playing catch up to Goku.

There should be more than just Goku and Vegeta at the top as it makes things more interesting.
Saiyan characters are the only ones capable of being rivals to Goku in the long run, because saiyans have infinite potential and can keep improving forever while non-saiyans don't. That's why Piccolo got phased-out after the Cell Games.

Give other characters that are not Saiyans something new and they can easily stay there. The rate at which saiyans improves needs to be slowed as it is just ridiculous.

To me it is a lack of imagination from Toriyama and he just treats everyone character that is noy a saiyan as a throwaway character apart from Frieza.

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by Lionel » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:16 pm

What's interesting is that a documented phenomenon known as "hysterical strength" has been purportedly witnessed by real life human by-standards who found others confronted by an extraordinary incident and, under emotional duress, displayed extreme superhuman-like capabilities. You have these figures undergoing dramatic transformations in their neuromuscular framework that render them capable of lifting objects and performing feats that would ordinarily be impossible for someone who is much stronger than them. For example, one woman in Quebec had allegedly rescued some children from a polar bear by fending it off long enough until it could be shot.

Funny enough, I can't help but suspect that concepts like Gohan's infamous "rage boosts" might have been inspired by such alleged phenomenon -- even though these feats were witnessed in real life humans and have been seemingly appropriated by an extraterrestrial species. The difference is that Gohan's boosts seemed to be linked to his ki whereas the condition that I'm referring to is rooted in neurochemical processes in a person's biology during periods of extreme emotional turbulence. Techniques and permutations in fiction have utilised the principle of biological enhanced strength and resilience before. It's like the famous "fight or flight" reaction that is subconsciously undertaken by the body during a period of danger. If somehow this phenonmon could be harnessed and weaponised by the earthlings then it could conceivably supplement their power a great deal. You have incidents where people lifted what was tens of times worth their body mass. It would essentially be like a Kaioken amplification except in strictly biological terms instead of spiritual.

Now try to imagine the earthlings combining this "hysterical strength" state with the Kaioken. I personally have the earthlings in the low millions range during the Cell arc. Taking advantage of this phenomenon then combining it with established amplifier techniques would have easily helped them to remain competitive. If the "hysterical strength" mode biologically enhanced their muscular power by 20 times what it's normally capable of then they metaphysically combined it with Kaioken x20, it would be a 400 times multiplier altogether. Using my own personal math, that would put characters like Tenshinhan, Krillin, and even Yamcha ahead of the Super Saiyans... I daresay Chaozu would have been in the same realm as the Saiyans, perhaps a bit stronger if you're generous with his own estimates; this doesn't even acknowledge the concept of Kaioken's multiplier being conceivably raised beyond x20.

Later on down the line, you can supplement any further transformations by having the earthlings elevate the Kaioken multiplier and getting their power drawn far out beyond its limits, courtesy of Elder Kaioshin's ritual. God ki isn't limited to just Saiyans neither so that's free reign. If that's still not enough somehow then give them Potara earrings for fusion.

Vegeta doubtlessly has his advantages, what with being a fan favourite and a Saiyan, but the earthlings have possible avenues that could easily make them competitive again. The only reason they aren't is because Toriyama has this bizarre exclusivist policy that parasitically drains the avidity of the non-Saiyans and makes them dependent on a certain Saiyan pair for everything. A lot of us don't like it and wish something could be done to change things.
Last edited by Lionel on Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by PFM18 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:35 pm

blain218 wrote:
Professor Freeza wrote:
PFM18 wrote: I believe that beerus "ordering" was a mistranslation and the word was more meant to be "authorized" which makes sense because Freeza cant be destroying planets without permission because that is Beerus's job. And Beerus would have no reason to order the destruction of the Saiyan's planet.

Vegeta should stay because he is f****** Vegeta and he is an iconic character with by far the most developed character in the series

No. I believe Ordered is the correct word and Authorized is the bad dub change Funi did
Its the other way around. They said ordered in the dub.
Which makes sense because Beerus ordering Freeza makes sense. But Freeza being cautious and asking for permission does make sense. Also it would ruin the whole plotline of Freeza being scared of a potential Super Saiyan and destroying the planet as a result

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by TheMikado » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:59 pm

sangofe wrote:
TheMikado wrote:Vegeta is my favorite character and I want him dead at this point.

I like retired Vegeta far more than buddy cop Vegeta.
So you like GT Vegeta then?
Yes, second only to Buu saga Vegeta.

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by PFM18 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:20 pm

TheMikado wrote:
sangofe wrote:
TheMikado wrote:Vegeta is my favorite character and I want him dead at this point.

I like retired Vegeta far more than buddy cop Vegeta.
So you like GT Vegeta then?
Yes, second only to Buu saga Vegeta.
So you like Vegeta being a lying, pathetic loser who gives up and is surpassed by his own kid?(when his kid fuses with another kid)

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by Puaru » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:45 am

The Boo saga was by far the point in the series when Vegeta had the most interesting personality.

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Re: Vegeta should be phased out now

Post by Retan » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:28 am

As a Vegeta fan I should find this thread silly.... but I don't (Sigh). Simply put Him and Goku always being together is overkill for any villain that Toriyama can come up with at this point. While Vegeta should in no way retired or put on the benches, but his time with Goku is over as Vegeta shouldn't need to be used to show how strong the new threat is, as Goku can do this much better, as he seems to lose to them first anyway sometimes twice in a single arc.

How do you fix this? Send Vegeta to U6 not as a mentor but as the new king of of the saiyans over there with the old king passing away, this will also keep the U6 saiyans relavant (I'm sure Bulma would be delighted to retire from Capsule corp and become a queen anyway lol). This would also allow Piccolo and Gohan back as important pieces. Bring Vegeta back not for every arc, but for special moments. Goku doesn't need Vegeta and Vegeta doesn't need Goku anymore either.


Bottom line I just grow tired of this Vegeta fights main threat only to show how strong main threat is. (Kinda always have been)

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