Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

theherodjl
I Live Here
Posts: 2212
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by theherodjl » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:26 pm

Say that Beerus decided to sleep in for another few years and so SSJG was never discovered in the time until Freeza was revived. Freeza would hear of how Goku defeated Majin Boo and so he would train for 4 months like he did and plotted a course for Earth. Kibitoshin & Rou Kaioshin would learn of this and inform the Z Senshi 3 days before Freeza's arrival, giving them 3 years in the ROSAT. Goten & Trunks would get one year, Gohan & Piccolo would get a year, and Goku & Vegeta would get the final year. Could they pull off a victory with this?
If not, then suppose that Goku & Vegeta got all 3 years, would that be enough?

*Fusion is only allowed with the dance in this scenario as the Kaioshin haven't had enough time to obtain new potara.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

ToshioWrites
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:22 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by ToshioWrites » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:19 am

theherodjl wrote:Say that Beerus decided to sleep in for another few years and so SSJG was never discovered in the time until Freeza was revived. Freeza would hear of how Goku defeated Majin Boo and so he would train for 4 months like he did and plotted a course for Earth. Kibitoshin & Rou Kaioshin would learn of this and inform the Z Senshi 3 days before Freeza's arrival, giving them 3 years in the ROSAT. Goten & Trunks would get one year, Gohan & Piccolo would get a year, and Goku & Vegeta would get the final year. Could they pull off a victory with this?
If not, then suppose that Goku & Vegeta got all 3 years, would that be enough?

*Fusion is only allowed with the dance in this scenario as the Kaioshin haven't had enough time to obtain new potara.

If Golden Freeza is as strong as he was in Revival F/RoF Arc then Hell NO

User avatar
Galan007
Regular
Posts: 666
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:34 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by Galan007 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:14 am

Not even remotely close, actually.

User avatar
One_Instance
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:47 pm
Location: Gengoro Island

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by One_Instance » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:09 am

They would at least need to be able to become SSG. Maybe if they trained like hell in that form without ascending they could handle him.

User avatar
Pantalones
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1432
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:30 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by Pantalones » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:38 am

I think they have a chance... but only if they go out of their way to kill Freeza BEFORE he goes full power.

In Freeza's first form, he's only confirmed stronger than Piccolo and Gohan... though this Gohan's exact level of power is pretty vague, he might still have some of his "Ultimate" form's power lingering, but I don't think he's at full-on Ultimate Gohan levels even in Super Saiyan. Depending on just how strong this form of Freeza is, Goku and Vegeta might actually be able to surpass him with a lot of training. SSj3 Gotenks might already be stronger than Freeza's first form was, and of course either fusion of Goku and Vegeta would beat him in his first form with little effort. If Gohan trained to recover his "Ultimate" form's full power he also might be able to win against first-form Freeza. If Vegeta is able to pull off his "mutated" SSj2 like he did against Beerus, surpassing SSj3 Goku (and Gotenks, and Gohan), he'd definitely be able to beat first-form Freeza.

If he went into his second form, "mutated SSj2" Vegeta is the only way either of the pure-blooded Saiyans is going to have any chance against him one-on-one. Goku and Vegeta could still beat him by fusing (though it might take SSj2 or even SSj3 Gogeta if they can't get any Potara, depending on just how much weaker the dance fusion is.) Gohan or Gotenks would need to train and increase his power even further beyond what he had in the Buu Saga to have a chance, and even that might fall short of Freeza's power now. If Buu is able to focus on training and not sleep through most of the year(s) he's given in preparation, he'd easily fly past this form of Freeza.

If he went into his third form, Potara fusion or a trained Buu is the only sure way to win. Dance fusion with "mutated SSj2" Vegeta could work, too, depending on just how strong that form really is.

If he went into his final form, the Slim Buu that we saw as the result of Buu training in Super could still beat him.

If he becomes Golden Freeza, they're screwed.

User avatar
Puaru
Banned
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:58 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by Puaru » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:00 pm

They absolutely could, considering that this is excatly what Future Trunks did; reached a power level similar to SSB without having any God ki whatsoever. And all he had to do was get pissed of.

If he could do it, I'm sure as hell that Goku, Vegeta and Gohan could potentially do it too. Definitely Gohan, if the idea of him having the most potential of all saiyans is still canon (otherwise Future Trunks would in fact be the one with the most potential, meaning that all that talk back in DBZ about Gohan having the most potential turned out to actually be bullshit).

User avatar
Almighty Majin
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:18 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by Almighty Majin » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:00 pm

If Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and Piccolo all went into the time chamber and trained their asses off then they could probably manage something. It'll be especially better if they can bring back Gohan's potential unleashed form and stress him into the level he reached during the ToP then then battle against Freeza won't be so bad until he goes golden. In the case of Golden Freeza, they'd probably need to get 17 out and maybe if they trained Buu intensively.

Perhaps if they also throw 17 and Buu into the time chamber they'll both come out strong enough to defeat Golden Freeza and then the Saiyans can make their massive gains from sparring with them later so any future threat might not be such a problem.

ToshioWrites
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:22 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by ToshioWrites » Mon Apr 02, 2018 4:37 pm

I think the best hope would be goten and trunks. They made enough gains in 30 minutes in the ROSAT that piccolo felt base gotenks had a chance vs buu whereas before he only thought ssj gotenks had a shot. If you could get those two to training like maniacs for the entire year and then use the fusion dance when they came out. They MAYBE have a chance and thats if their tailless hybrid talent is as great as we think

User avatar
Puaru
Banned
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:58 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by Puaru » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:31 am

ToshioWrites wrote:I think the best hope would be goten and trunks. They made enough gains in 30 minutes in the ROSAT that piccolo felt base gotenks had a chance vs buu whereas before he only thought ssj gotenks had a shot. If you could get those two to training like maniacs for the entire year and then use the fusion dance when they came out. They MAYBE have a chance and thats if their tailless hybrid talent is as great as we think
Gohan has more potential than those two.

User avatar
Lionel
I Live Here
Posts: 2393
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by Lionel » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:36 am

What are the odds that someone who isn't Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, or Gotenks could assume the mantle of fighting the big bad for a change? Maybe in some bizarre scenario Piccolo and Tenshinhan get Bulma to put some gravity amplifying generator in the ROSAT that can go from 1000 times normal gravity to 1,000,000,000. After the events of BOG, they went back to King Kai's and learned Kaioken properly like they should have done during the Freeza arc. They spend several days training rigorously with each other in the ROSAT while heightening the Kaioken to new plateaus. When they get out their power has risen astronomically. Elder Kaioshin could then give them the "Ultimate" treatment that Gohan received and elevate their strengths even further. I think by that time they'll have surpassed every conceivable level in the Buu arc as a minimum. If it's still not enough then give them some Potara earrings. Surely Ultimate Tenshiccolo with a monstrous Kaioken amplifier that dwarfs x20 could handle a non golden/true form ROF Freeza under these conditions.

User avatar
FoolsGil
I Live Here
Posts: 4969
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:05 am

After the stuff we've seen with Krillin fighting SSJBlue Goku and Master Roshi "training in secret?" Yes they would be strong enough to fight RoF Freeza. Because in Super scaling doesn't matter.

theherodjl
I Live Here
Posts: 2212
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by theherodjl » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:10 pm

I at least would like to imagine it like this.
After one year, Goten & Trunks manage to perfect their fusion dance to the point of maintaining SSJ3 for the entire duration as well training as Gotenks when not training as individuals, spiking Gotenks' total power to being above even Anime Base Vegetto. Gohan & Piccolo results in Piccolo making the biggest gain, Piccolo being close to Ultimate Gohan's initial level while Gohan himself is now above Anime Base Vegetto as well. Goku & Vegeta perfect the fusion dance like their sons and manage to improve enough to match Vegetto's power as Gogeta and then remaining in SSJ3 form similar to FPSSJ, achieving an improved SSJ3 form with little loss of energy or stamina.
These gains are more based in DBZ's level of improvement, just imagine if DBS's degree of improvement was added to the situation.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
Lord Frieza
I Live Here
Posts: 3801
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by Lord Frieza » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:37 pm

Vegeta: We don't stand a whelk's chance in a supernova.

Krillin: What's a whelk got to do with a supernova?

Vegeta: It doesn't stand a chance in one.

User avatar
Pantalones
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1432
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:30 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by Pantalones » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:51 pm

...I can't believe I forgot about #17 when typing up my first reply here.

Considering his enormous power growth since Z and the fact that his barrier was able to hold up pretty well against opponents even stronger than Golden Freeza (like Anilaza), they'd definitely win this battle if they were able to bring #17 in. Even if Freeza's raw power is greater, he's not going to be that far ahead (especially since RoF Golden Freeza would be weaker than ToP Golden Freeza) and he's not going to be breaking through #17's barriers -- and if he somehow manages to do so, he'd be draining his own stamina so badly in the process that even an injured #17 would be able to take him out in an instant afterward. With #17's endless stamina and ridiculously strong barriers he's basically the perfect weapon against Golden Freeza or any other stamina-depleting form.

Also, probably thanks to the way Gero enhanced them, it doesn't seem like the Androids can hold back as easily or "let their guard down" to the same extent that Goku and company can even when they're not fighting seriously (#18 trying to hold back still registered 700-some on the punch machine, Trunks' sword shattered on them, etc.)... so no surprise laser-beaming would happen to #17.

Heck, even if Freeza was going to try blowing up the planet, #17 could stop that plan in its tracks by putting a barrier around Freeza so that his own blast would literally blow up in his face. He'd survive it of course, but he'd be totally humiliated and even further weakened, probably losing the Golden form in the process so #17 would have no difficulty whatsoever killing him.

TysonWine
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 213
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:05 am

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by TysonWine » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:14 am

Pantalones wrote:...I can't believe I forgot about #17 when typing up my first reply here.
I was just about to say, everyone seems to be forgetting about 17. Get him involved and the Z fighters have a chance. They only have to last until Frieza's stamina comes into play. In which case, the infinite energy 17 and whatever Z fighters are left standing (might need a senzu bean in the clutch) should be able to handle a worn out Final Form Frieza.

User avatar
AvatarReiko
Regular
Posts: 592
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:46 am

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by AvatarReiko » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:33 am

Yes. Frieza in his 4th Form was getting smacked around by Base Goku and was said to be stronger than a rusty Gohan. I don't see any reason why a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegito couldn't beat Frieza's weaker forms. They are screwed if he starts Golden though

User avatar
Puaru
Banned
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:58 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by Puaru » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:46 pm

Gohan could be as strong as Golden Freeza if he trained more. I can't believe you all seem to be forgetting this. Future Trunks became SSB level despite not having god ki, meaning Gohan could do the same.

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by PFM18 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:09 am

AvatarReiko wrote:Yes. Frieza in his 4th Form was getting smacked around by Base Goku and was said to be stronger than a rusty Gohan. I don't see any reason why a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegito couldn't beat Frieza's weaker forms. They are screwed if he starts Golden though
My thoughts exactly. Fuse and go SSJ3 and they could take out final form Freeza with ease....but if he goes Golden everybody is screwed.

User avatar
Puaru
Banned
Posts: 195
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:58 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by Puaru » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:05 pm

PFM18 wrote:but if he goes Golden everybody is screwed.
No, Gohan could became as strong as Golden Freeza if he had enough time to train. Future Trunks got to around that level of power (more or less) even without god ki, so Gohan could do it too.

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: Could The Z Senshi Have Become Strong Enough To Fight ROF Freeza Without SSJG/SSJB?

Post by PFM18 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:15 pm

Puaru wrote:
PFM18 wrote:but if he goes Golden everybody is screwed.
No, Gohan could became as strong as Golden Freeza if he had enough time to train. Future Trunks got to around that level of power (more or less) even without god ki, so Gohan could do it too.
Yeah Trunks got on that level but he was already relatively close when he appeared in DBS. Upon achieving SSJ Rage he became SSB level but even prior to that his SSJ2 was right on par with goku's SSJ2, which is stronger than anything we saw in Z by a wide margin. He had been training for the previous 13 years and that is how he got on that level. Gohan wouldnt have 13 years to train in this case.

Post Reply