Would It Have Been Better For Goku To Train With Kaioshin Instead Of North Kaio?

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Would It Have Been Better For Goku To Train With Kaioshin Instead Of North Kaio?

Post by theherodjl » Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:47 pm

Suppose that Kaioshin decided to take a more direct approach the inevitable fight with Boo and foresaw the potential that Goku was capable of as soon as he was killed in the battle with Raditz: visiting Enma's palace with Kibito to take Goku to the Kaioshin realm and train him for the entire year until the arrival of Vegeta & Nappa. Would this have been a better move than letting Goku waste 6 months running on snake way and 5 months training with a lesser God? How would the Saiyan, Namek, & Cell arc play out had Goku been given this incredible preparation at such an earlier time?
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Re: Would It Have Been Better For Goku To Train With Kaioshin Instead Of North Kaio?

Post by Pantalones » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:08 pm

The East Kaioshin has more in the way of raw power, but he's not really a martial arts master and probably hasn't ever really trained anyone despite being around for over 5 million years. In the long run this probably wouldn't work out that well -- Goku might be able to do without the Kaio-ken if he got so much stronger that he was already ahead of the level he would've been at with it normally, but imagine not having the Spirit Bomb!

On the other hand, Trunks did seem to get a lot stronger as a result of training with him in preparation for Babidi and Dabura (though it's possible this was thanks to the Z Sword and then continued training afterward rather than anything to do with the Kaioshin himself or his training, since we know Gohan in the Buu Saga felt stronger after just practicing with the sword for a little while... and when we see Trunks in Super it's not right after he fought Dabura; probably years later, so he definitely had time for further training on his own before Black showed up.) Maybe Goku could be able to pick up techniques like Shin's paralysis and Kibito's healing, too.

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Re: Would It Have Been Better For Goku To Train With Kaioshin Instead Of North Kaio?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:29 pm

Honestly, King Kai is in all likelihood still the best option for training at that point in the story.

Goku had to get accustomed to 10x Earth's gravity lickity split, and then was taught several useful techniques once he did this. The Kaio-ken was arguably his greatest trump card to come from this training in terms of utility afterwards, and there's never really anything else to show that the planet of the Kaioshin is any better than King Kai's planet, unless I'm missing something.

Both places exist in Otherworld, and Goku would be dead and free to train as much as necessary due to no stamina or energy issues.

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Re: Would It Have Been Better For Goku To Train With Kaioshin Instead Of North Kaio?

Post by theherodjl » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:20 pm

Pantalones wrote:The East Kaioshin has more in the way of raw power, but he's not really a martial arts master and probably hasn't ever really trained anyone despite being around for over 5 million years. In the long run this probably wouldn't work out that well -- Goku might be able to do without the Kaio-ken if he got so much stronger that he was already ahead of the level he would've been at with it normally, but imagine not having the Spirit Bomb!

On the other hand, Trunks did seem to get a lot stronger as a result of training with him in preparation for Babidi and Dabura (though it's possible this was thanks to the Z Sword and then continued training afterward rather than anything to do with the Kaioshin himself or his training, since we know Gohan in the Buu Saga felt stronger after just practicing with the sword for a little while... and when we see Trunks in Super it's not right after he fought Dabura; probably years later, so he definitely had time for further training on his own before Black showed up.) Maybe Goku could be able to pick up techniques like Shin's paralysis and Kibito's healing, too.
Would that be a huge loss for the Goku in the main story? The Genki Dama only ever worked on Majin Boo and it was a narrow victory even considering the circumstances. Had Goku fought Vegeta & Freeza as a SSJ(a likely fruit of training with Kaioshin & Kibito for 11 months) then the Genki Dama wouldn't be necessary. Additionally, Kaioshin would never allow the battle with Majin Boo to rely on a gamble of something like the Genki Dama and probably just train Goku to fight Boo with might and strategy. Another possibility is that Goku could become strong enough to remove the Z Sword and then hijinx occur in which the sword is broken thus leading to Rou Kaioshin making Goku Ultimate.
If things didn't lead up to enough Saiyans needed to activate SSJG(possibly due to Vegeta going on his own after losing in disgrace to SSJ Goku) then the prophecy would never pass for Beerus to find SSJG and he might sleep through Goku's lifetime.
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Re: Would It Have Been Better For Goku To Train With Kaioshin Instead Of North Kaio?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:31 pm

No. Kaioshin is useless.
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Re: Would It Have Been Better For Goku To Train With Kaioshin Instead Of North Kaio?

Post by Lionel » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:33 am

Like with so many things in Dragon Ball, I feel like part of the blame for Shin's visage of ineffectuality lies on the shoulders of Toriyama, at least in part. Here you have a character who, while admittedly weak in the power department, has shown impressive aptitude with his psychic and magical abilities. They were enough to immobilise SSJ2 Gohan and destroy a blast launched by Fat Buu that was intended to kill the very same Saiyan in his SSJ1 transformation. Couple that with his materialisation powers that can create anything and his teleportation that doesn't require a ki signature and you have a psychic user who would have been incredibly useful if he had been handled by a different author who knew how to write for characters like Shin.

Sadly, I don't see how Goku would benefit from Shin's repertoire here since they're mostly Kai-exclusive abilities. Telekinesis doesn't seem like Goku's forte and he already knows about kiais. Kai-Kai would probably be the only technique he learns, but it would be incredibly useful since it doesn't require a signature to use as a beacon. Plus, the vast chasmic disparity in power between King Kai and Shin would compensate for any shortcomings there up until at least the Cell arc.

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Re: Would It Have Been Better For Goku To Train With Kaioshin Instead Of North Kaio?

Post by Meshack » Wed May 16, 2018 1:58 pm

Gokou goes to Kaioh’s for gravity taining. It was never said that Kaiohshin's planet has a different gravity level than the earth or Kaioh’s. It could be the same as the earth’s or lower or higher. Gokou and Kaioh are friends so that’s probably why he goes there.

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Re: Would It Have Been Better For Goku To Train With Kaioshin Instead Of North Kaio?

Post by dbgtFO » Thu May 17, 2018 1:07 pm

Meshack wrote:Gokou goes to Kaioh’s for gravity taining. It was never said that Kaiohshin's planet has a different gravity level than the earth or Kaioh’s. It could be the same as the earth’s or lower or higher. Gokou and Kaioh are friends so that’s probably why he goes there.
And for the record the Planet does not have a different gravity than Earth's since Mr. Satan and his dog weren't affected at all.

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Re: Would It Have Been Better For Goku To Train With Kaioshin Instead Of North Kaio?

Post by Meshack » Thu May 17, 2018 1:22 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
Meshack wrote:Gokou goes to Kaioh’s for gravity taining. It was never said that Kaiohshin's planet has a different gravity level than the earth or Kaioh’s. It could be the same as the earth’s or lower or higher. Gokou and Kaioh are friends so that’s probably why he goes there.
And for the record the Planet does not have a different gravity than Earth's since Mr. Satan and his dog weren't affected at all.
True

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