You can't have it both ways. If you cite the material using Genki and Ki interchangeably then it's fair game to say the material is fine using those terms interchangeably.Darkprince410 wrote:When going by the material, ki, genki, and power, when referring to the Genki Dama, only refers to genki. If there was any indication that it was used for ki at all, it'd be one thing, but given all the past examples, they're all in reference to genki and genki only.
It shows *an* absorption as in a singular absorption of one thing being freed. The quote is saying *multiple* absorptions lost weakened Buu. So we need multple absorptions. How many absorptions are in the picture? Just one. We need multiple.Because there is one. It's clearly showing the removal of an absorption which, if your course of events were accurate, would result in Buu gaining a permanent increase. That'd be like citing a "fact" that you've never been in trouble with the law, and then you used a picture of you being given a speeding ticket to illustrate the fact. It's a blatant contradiction.
Goku can be surprised at the full extent of how much power loss without being completely ignorant that he lost power at all. It's like asking a sick person if he can get up. He says he can but then fails. He can know he lost power without knowing the full extend of it. Moreover if he wasn't aware that he lost power then how are we supposed to trust any power comparisons he makes with himself and Buu?The problem with that reasoning is that Goku doesn't physically feel any weaker, so how much ki he actually has isn't indicative of what he feels he has. He clearly feels as strong inside as he does out (otherwise there's no reason for him to have been shocked by his inability to blow a hole in Buu), and thus his comparison would, at least to him, still feel as if it's his normal strength vs. Buu's strength.
This is simply not true. The ToP illustrates for us clearly that the Genki Dama that Gohan donates to is inherently more powerful that Gohan's full power. I keep pointing this out and you never address this point.And again, given that the incomplete Genki Dama is only stronger than Gohan's genki, and not his total ki, that part is still moot. He didn't donate the entirety of his ki.
This makes no sense. Why would Gohan not take the threat of Kid Buu seriously? He loves and respects his father. He wants to save the world. He's shown to be clearly enthusiastic about the plan. But he decides to half ass his participation because.... why exactly? Moreover how does Super *not* prove that Gohan donating to the Genki Dama makes it stronger than Gohan himself? 8 people weaker than SSBKKx20 Goku are able to make something much stronger than that super powered up version of Goku.Super doesn't prove that the incomplete Genki Dama was stronger than Gohan's full power. Gohan didn't contribute his full power to the Genki Dama, just his genki, and it was only that which was indicated to not be enough to defeat Buu.
I don't actually have to assume anything because Goku's statement and Daizenshuu's statement don't leave any margin for error. It's possible Yemma might bring back Gohan. It's possible Gohan can be brought back by wishes, teleported into the fight and it's possible for any number of ways for Gohan to fight Kid Buu. Heck, it's even possible that Buu just decides to take a nap at literally any point in time after he wins in the Kaio Shin realm. This gives everyone time to revive Gohan and do whatever they want. It's not possible though, according to Goku and Daizenshuu, that any of these possibilities would work.It's also you making assumptions on what Enma can and cannot do. Do you think Baba has the capacity to get Gohan to Kaioushin's planet? Do you think Kibitoshin or Goku had the energy left to get Gohan to Kaioushin's, especially when it's even directly stated that Kibitoshin had no energy left to teleport, and Goku was likewise too worn out.
And don't forget, Goku himself felt that Vegeta's plan was for Gohan and Gotenks to come in and fight, and if they were as weak as you're proposing, they should have been functionally worthless. Not even fight alongside them or anything, but just fight, period, meaning they're the ones doing all the combating. In his mind, he had to have seen that as some degree of a viable option if it was what he anticipated Vegeta's plan to be.
I cited multiple sources pointing out again and again how Satan's appeal to the Earthlings as pivotal to his role in saving the universe. That's not my opinion. That's the official narrative. Conversely do you have any official source outlining how important his role in getting Fat Buu spit out was supposed to be?Or Goku is talking about their contributions in general. Just because one of his contributions involved the Genki Dama's donations doesn't undermind that they wouldn't have even had the opportunity to create one if it hadn't been for Mr. Satan causing Mr. Buu to be expelled, giving them another combatant on the field that was able to stall Buu long enough.
His being there and causing Mr. Buu's expulsion is easily as major, if not moreso, than the Genki Dama donation.
Goku never says it's a viable plan. He's just guessing. No one ever, and we're talking about a literal universe of people and every knowledgeable fighter in DB history at this time, bothered to point out that Gohan would have easily beat Kid Buu and taking a massive risk with the Genki Dama was unneeded. King Kai, Piccolo, Gohan himself, Goku Vegeta, Kaio Shin and Old Kaio were all in communication with each other. Shin, Old Kaio, Piccolo and King Kai all have a history of pointing out whenever they feel that Goku is doing something stupid. For your narrative to work, Gohan has to somehow not care enough to give all his energy to the Genki Dama because he's apparently ambivalent about saving the universe and none of the people that are knowledgeable about combat actually bothered to point out how bad the current plan was especially when they had a supposed guaranteed win button.Goku thought that Vegeta's plan involved Gohan being there, so again, he thought it was a viable plan. It was Vegeta's plan which essentially removed Gohan from being a viable alternative. There's no indication that Baba could get Gohan to Kaioushin Kai, Kibitoshin was too drained to be able to teleport, and Goku was in a similarly drained situation (hence the use of the third Dragon Ball wish).
A worse case scenario, in his mind, by his own words, is him and Vegeta fighting again. Thus he clearly sees there being better alternatives, which readily could include Gohan and Gotenks fighting.
And likewise, Goku's comment is about if Buu appeared again because they allowed Mr. Buu to live, not the circumstances that would have potentially occurred if Buu had successfully defeated them on Kaioushin Kai, which is what I was referring to.
The simplest explanation requires the lease assumptions. Super Buu ceased to exist and Kid Buu therefore was manifested from the Buu material that was left since he is literally called the Pure Buu.I'm creating no contradictions. I'm giving you the simplest explanation given all the observations provided to us in the story. Mr. Buu is the one that created the race of Buu-like individuals, and he no longer had any of Pure Buu's soul in him once he expelled the Pure Evil Buu (in the same way that Daimao and Kami do not share the same souls). The soul that was reincarnated into Uub appeared first as the Pure Evil Buu, and through absorptions and removal of absorptions became Evil Buu, then all his variations, and eventually Pure Buu. That's how that line of his soul went before the reincarnation.
I point these excerpts out again which address this event:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
If Super Buu ceased to exist then Super Buu cannot understand Goku's feelings. This Buu was reincarnated and Goku waits for him because he's the strongest. You're assuming that Super Buu ceased to exist but he still... existed somehow. That's not only an unsupported assumption, it's a pretty big contradiction.
I also found this quote which should end the debate:
[spoiler]Goku: “…You’re amazin’. You hung in there really well all on your own…This time, be reborn as a good guy…I wanna fight you one-on-one…I’ll be waitin'…And I’ll have gotten much, much better…See ya later!”[/spoiler]
So Goku clearly identifies the Buu he's talking to as one that fought all on his own. This eliminates Super Buu who was absorbing people left and right. Kid Buu does absorb the Kaio Shin earlier on but Goku is not aware of this.