Could Goku and Gohan even fuse?
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- GreatSaiyaman123
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Could Goku and Gohan even fuse?
Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P6.1-7
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”
Goku says here that two people have to be close in power to use Fusion. That's different from having to match your battle powers to do the technique. Even ignoring Gotenks power implications and/or nerfing gaps, it's impossible for Goku to be considered "close" to Gohan since he is definitely weaker than Evil Boo who got wrecked by Gohan. So could Goku and Gohan really fuse?
Context: after Goku laments that Gohan and Vegeta are dead
Goku: “So you know about it, Dende…! That’s right, some people from Metamor who I met in the afterlife taught me that art…It’s a merging technique which can only be performed if two people are fairly close in both power and body size…In other words, by having two people merge into one, they’re able to become a single, new human with amazing power which either of them on their own absolutely wouldn’t be capable of. It really is incredible! Those two from Metamor were completely weak and gentle on their own, but by using Fusion they transformed into a substantial warrior! [ ] …I was just taught the art, but I ain’t never tested it out…There wasn’t anybody on par with me in the afterlife…”
Goku says here that two people have to be close in power to use Fusion. That's different from having to match your battle powers to do the technique. Even ignoring Gotenks power implications and/or nerfing gaps, it's impossible for Goku to be considered "close" to Gohan since he is definitely weaker than Evil Boo who got wrecked by Gohan. So could Goku and Gohan really fuse?
Re: Could Goku and Gohan even fuse?
I'm gonna go with no since Goku's reason for not being able to test Fusion is that no one in the afterlife was on par with him.
- GreatSaiyaman123
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Re: Could Goku and Gohan even fuse?
That could mean Goku is closer to Gohan than he is to the Metamorians though.
Re: Could Goku and Gohan even fuse?
Even then, there's still no way you could consider Goku and Gohan "fairly close" or "on par" when Goku said he was absolutely no match for Evil Boo (who Gohan easily smacked around).GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:That could mean Goku is closer to Gohan than he is to the Metamorians though.
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Re: Could Goku and Gohan even fuse?
Potara fusion is Yes
Fusion dance they could just power up to equal levels and fuse I think
Fusion dance they could just power up to equal levels and fuse I think
- Pantalones
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Re: Could Goku and Gohan even fuse?
Whether or not you personally count it as a "real" transformation, Gohan's "Ultimate/Mystic" state seems to work like a transformation... just without any of the side-effects (physical change, strain, less stamina, altered mindset, etc.) that actual transformations can cause. Gohan has to power up as if he's going to transform to bring out that level of power (the old Kaioshin even tells Gohan to power up the same way he would go Super Saiyan when he wants to activate it!), he's not walking around suppressing all that power at all times whenever he's not using his full strength. It's definitely something he can turn on or off just like a transformation, so it's not exactly the same as "Gohan's base power is just super high" as if he'd reached that level from training.
So I would say that unless Gohan decides to power up to Ultimate state before trying to fuse, the Fusion Dance should work just fine.
Potara, of course, would work regardless. It would probably work better if Gohan wasn't "Ultimate" at the time of fusion, though, since it seems like Potara fusions with a huge power gap aren't as effective (Kibito+Kaioshin is so underwhelming that the fusion possibly doesn't even bump the East Kaioshin above SSj2 level, Zamasu+Black was powerful but when you consider how strong Black was already it was definitely nowhere near the boost Goku+Vegeta got, and Goku suspected fusing with Mr. Satan wouldn't increase his power at all) while fusions where the two fighters are similar in power can be outrageously powerful (we know how Goku+Vegeta turned out, but Super gives us Kale+Caulifla as a second example of two people on a similar level in base form making a MUCH more powerful result when fused.)
So I would say that unless Gohan decides to power up to Ultimate state before trying to fuse, the Fusion Dance should work just fine.
Potara, of course, would work regardless. It would probably work better if Gohan wasn't "Ultimate" at the time of fusion, though, since it seems like Potara fusions with a huge power gap aren't as effective (Kibito+Kaioshin is so underwhelming that the fusion possibly doesn't even bump the East Kaioshin above SSj2 level, Zamasu+Black was powerful but when you consider how strong Black was already it was definitely nowhere near the boost Goku+Vegeta got, and Goku suspected fusing with Mr. Satan wouldn't increase his power at all) while fusions where the two fighters are similar in power can be outrageously powerful (we know how Goku+Vegeta turned out, but Super gives us Kale+Caulifla as a second example of two people on a similar level in base form making a MUCH more powerful result when fused.)
Re: Could Goku and Gohan even fuse?
Without? Then you should read the manga and watch the anime paying very close attention. Because there is physical change. Heck, it is one of the very reasons why Ultimate is indeed a transformation.Pantalones wrote:Whether or not you personally count it as a "real" transformation, Gohan's "Ultimate/Mystic" state seems to work like a transformation... just without any of the side-effects (physical change) that actual transformations can cause.
- Pantalones
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Re: Could Goku and Gohan even fuse?
I'd heard people mention that Gohan's eyes were drawn differently when he's "Ultimate/Mystic" than usual... but I figure something as small as a difference in the way eyes/eyebrows are drawn just indicates that a level of concentration is required to draw out the "Ultimate" power, not an actual change to Gohan's body. That's what the outlined eyes and straight eyebrows (also present in the Super Saiyan forms, at least until Goku/Gohan learn to master regular Super Saiyan so it's just as natural to them as their base state) imply to me, anyway.
When I mentioned there were no physical changes, I meant nothing that's undeniably a change to Gohan's body itself rather than just a change to how he's drawn -- the power-up doesn't come with anything like the spiky golden hair or bulging muscles (or slimmed down ones, even, in the case of Super Saiyan God) that other transformations cause.
When I mentioned there were no physical changes, I meant nothing that's undeniably a change to Gohan's body itself rather than just a change to how he's drawn -- the power-up doesn't come with anything like the spiky golden hair or bulging muscles (or slimmed down ones, even, in the case of Super Saiyan God) that other transformations cause.
Re: Could Goku and Gohan even fuse?
The smallest physical change you can think of would still fall under the "transformation" category, it changes the body/appearance at the end of the day. So there is really no need for "spiky golden hair or bulging muscles" as you mentioned. This is why the red-eyed form for Namekuseijins, as the name already gives it away, is a transformation, even though the only thing that change are the eyes, for example.
Your theory about concentration quickly falls down by the fact that Gohan keeps those characteristics even after transforming into Ultimate, and he obviously loses concentration when facing certain situations but we see that he keeps the form nonetheless.
Your theory about concentration quickly falls down by the fact that Gohan keeps those characteristics even after transforming into Ultimate, and he obviously loses concentration when facing certain situations but we see that he keeps the form nonetheless.
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Re: Could Goku and Gohan even fuse?
Here's the way I think it works.
1) Goku teaches us that he could not fuse in the afterlife because there wasn't anyone like him there.
2) Goku immediately thinks he and Gohan can fuse and win...
Who are we to go against that really?
This is what we are left with.
1) Metamoran Gokan > Buutenks
2) Base Potara Gokan > Buutenks
1) Goku teaches us that he could not fuse in the afterlife because there wasn't anyone like him there.
2) Goku immediately thinks he and Gohan can fuse and win...
Who are we to go against that really?
This is what we are left with.
1) Metamoran Gokan > Buutenks
2) Base Potara Gokan > Buutenks
- TheZFighter
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Re: Could Goku and Gohan even fuse?
Its too weird I try not to even think about it
Z-Fighters fan.
Goku, Yamcha, Krillin, Tien, Chiaotzu, Yajirobe, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Android 18, Goten, Trunks and Majin Buu.
Goku, Yamcha, Krillin, Tien, Chiaotzu, Yajirobe, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Android 18, Goten, Trunks and Majin Buu.