So, how powerful is Goku after ToP now?

[Sonofman]

In my personal opinion, I don't really know where Goku (post ToP) stands in terms of power. Like, is he stronger than GoD Beerus? Or is he at the same level (pre-ToP), since he can't use UI anymore? I felt like Goku didn't really achieve any increase in power, since he's unable to use UI. I know that in the future he will be able to fully utilize UI, but for now... is Goku's max power SSB Kaio-Ken x20? Or did he break his limit, if so... how? Let me know your thoughts below!

[Logania]

Definitely stronger than he was before the Tournament but I don't have a concrete comparison.

I only know he's at least 20x stronger than before, because he couldn't even touch Jiren in 109 in Kaioken x20 SSJB, yet later when it's Universe 7 vs 11 (I forgot which episode it was 120? 122?) Where regular SSJB Goku is doing a lot better than he was against Jiren in Kaioken x20.

[mute_proxy]

Definitely stronger than he was before the Tournament but I don't have a concrete comparison.

I only know he's at least 20x stronger than before, because he couldn't even touch Jiren in 109 in Kaioken x20 SSJB, yet later when it's Universe 7 vs 11 (I forgot which episode it was 120? 122?) Where regular SSJB Goku is doing a lot better than he was against Jiren in Kaioken x20.

Take into account that Jiren also got exhausted. I doubt that he went from a 100.000 to 2000.000, more like 100.000 to 120.000, which is still a lot

[Logania]

Definitely stronger than he was before the Tournament but I don't have a concrete comparison.

I only know he's at least 20x stronger than before, because he couldn't even touch Jiren in 109 in Kaioken x20 SSJB, yet later when it's Universe 7 vs 11 (I forgot which episode it was 120? 122?) Where regular SSJB Goku is doing a lot better than he was against Jiren in Kaioken x20.

Take into account that Jiren also got exhausted. I doubt that he went from a 100.000 to 2000.000, more like 100.000 to 120.000, which is still a lot

I'm mainly referring to the very beginning of the battle between both universes. Goku was pushing through near death from the Spirit Bomb and severe damage from Kefla, then goes to fight with Jiren later with just SSJB without Kaioken and does better against him then on their previous fight.

Jiren wasnt really ever exhausted he's basically the same as he was originally. A kick from UI Goku without any real damage and a Flash Fist Crush from Hit that seemed to not effect him at all after his bout with him and just meditates/waits the rest of the time until its time to fight Universe 7.

I dont know if whether Jiren was holding back even more on their second encounter (because that's all that man does) or if Goku actually improved that fast, but it's just how I feel x20 is my rough estimate at the least amount.

[Lord Beerus]

It's incredibly ambiguous.

Goku at this stage is at the very least on par with another mortal who is stronger than a Hakaishin from their universe (Belmod). But we have no idea on how strong Belmod is in relation to other Hakaishin's, or at the very least compared to Beerus, in the anime.

[ToshioWrites]

It's incredibly ambiguous.

Goku at this stage is at the very least on par with another mortal who is stronger than a Hakaishin from their universe (Belmod). But we have no idea on how strong Belmod is in relation to other Hakaishin's, or at the very least compared to Beerus, in the anime.

What ? Kkx20 Goku can’t touch Jiren

[Lord Beerus]

It's incredibly ambiguous.

Goku at this stage is at the very least on par with another mortal who is stronger than a Hakaishin from their universe (Belmod). But we have no idea on how strong Belmod is in relation to other Hakaishin's, or at the very least compared to Beerus, in the anime.

What ? Kkx20 Goku can’t touch Jiren

Ultra Instinct.

[ToshioWrites]

It's incredibly ambiguous.

Goku at this stage is at the very least on par with another mortal who is stronger than a Hakaishin from their universe (Belmod). But we have no idea on how strong Belmod is in relation to other Hakaishin's, or at the very least compared to Beerus, in the anime.

What ? Kkx20 Goku can’t touch Jiren

Ultra Instinct.

Something Goku can’t use at will, end of ToP Goku is still a long ways away from being on par with active GoDs

[Lord Beerus]

What ? Kkx20 Goku can’t touch Jiren

Ultra Instinct.

Something Goku can’t use at will, end of ToP Goku is still a long ways away from being on par with active GoDs

Just because he can’t access Ultra Instinct at will, doesn't mean he can’t access it at all.

[majinwarman]

Ultra Instinct.

Something Goku can’t use at will, end of ToP Goku is still a long ways away from being on par with active GoDs

Just because he can’t access Ultra Instinct at will, doesn't mean he can’t access it at all.

It could be a thing that pops out once in a while. But, current Goku is still extremely powerful.

[ToshioWrites]

The question wasn't about hypothetical goku being pushed to UI, he said end of ToP where goku's max is ssbkkx20 which while extremely powerful still doesn't compare to the likes of jiren or beerus at high level of their respective powers

[Polyphase Avatron]

We'll find out in the upcoming movie.

[theherodjl]

Goku probably improved from the tournament just because of the "Saiyans get stronger as they continue to fight" rhetoric that DBS has taken to absurd degrees. How much stronger he is supposed to be is completely up in the air though. It could be less than 1% or it could be greater than 10%: the series has never demonstrated any consistent average in strength gains.

[Koitsukai]

He got some zenkai boosts(or some saiyan power up of that sort) during the tournament and probably a bigger one after that big meal at the end of 131, also grown massively as a fighter, closing huge gaps on technique alone.

I think in regular SSBlue he is strong enough now to defeat Shin Golden Freeza without receiving major damage, maybe their gap is like in the final moments of Namek. I can see him stomping Black Rose and easily taking down ningen Toppo. Although I don't think KK20 would've worked in the ToP to defeat Hakaishin Toppo, I think it could do now.
I guess Jiren would have to power up a bit more than in 109 to deal with the current version of SSBK20 Goku, maybe those many auras red and yellow just to be safe, although if he learnt anything he should Owari Da the shit out of Goku at once. Definitely would lose to SSBE Vegeta, Corrupted Zamasu and Beerus. But if we are talking about just SSBlue, Vegeta started the ToP stronger than Goku but I think without SSBE and KK, Goku surpassed him IMHO.

Also, how strong will Jiren get after the beating he took? I mean the guy got stomped like never before, they shoved his precious little strenght up his ass, he'll train 1000xtimes harder than ever not just to reach Goku, but to surpass him for miles so he can do that supressed stomp he likes so much

[p-hyvo]

In my opinioni, base goku (early top)is around 3 times stronger than buuhan in his nase

[Asura]

Probably about as strong as he was before the ToP when you think about it. Maybe a bit stronger after fighting Jiren, but since he lost UI I guess he really didn't gain much.

[Mister_Popo]

One could conclude he did better in Blue second round, but was only before Jiren really showed a flair of his real strength. Like with 17 fighting Jiren later on. 17 could have be as strong as Blue, but not as strong as Jiren. Jiren powered up several times. I don't think he was really using all that power.
In round two against Jiren he somehow tried to compensate his lack of strength in casual Blue to Jiren with original fighting (the discs, the mines ...).
But he couldn't have become a lot stronger, within 10-15 minutes, he should have been still exhausted from the previous battles. Only UI provides him more power beyond the point of exhaustion. He of course gained in UI during the Tournament. But it's unlikely he became (a lot) stronger in base /casual forms during TOP, but it could be he gained after the Tournament as a compensation.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

In terms of forms, Goku can potentially approach the level that Ultra Instinct-using Angels like Whis and presumably his siblings and father, surpassing even the likes of the Hakaishin; key focus on the word "potentially".

He can't access his completed Ultra Instinct at will, and based on what we've seen, I don't think his normal levels have really improved; his fighting skills and knowledge, sure, but not his "power level", so to speak. So, he's not really any stronger in SS, SSB, etc., from before the Tournament of Power, simply more experienced and willing to push his limits further now that he knows there's a level beyond his god forms.

[HeroR]

In terms of forms, Goku can potentially approach the level that Ultra Instinct-using Angels like Whis and presumably his siblings and father, surpassing even the likes of the Hakaishin; key focus on the word "potentially".

He can't access his completed Ultra Instinct at will, and based on what we've seen, I don't think his normal levels have really improved; his fighting skills and knowledge, sure, but not his "power level", so to speak. So, he's not really any stronger in SS, SSB, etc., from before the Tournament of Power, simply more experienced and willing to push his limits further now that he knows there's a level beyond his god forms.

His power clearly went up since just in the TOP alone, he fought a stronger Jiren with just Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan in 122 and 123 when before Jiren smashed him even with the Kaioken.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

In terms of forms, Goku can potentially approach the level that Ultra Instinct-using Angels like Whis and presumably his siblings and father, surpassing even the likes of the Hakaishin; key focus on the word "potentially".

He can't access his completed Ultra Instinct at will, and based on what we've seen, I don't think his normal levels have really improved; his fighting skills and knowledge, sure, but not his "power level", so to speak. So, he's not really any stronger in SS, SSB, etc., from before the Tournament of Power, simply more experienced and willing to push his limits further now that he knows there's a level beyond his god forms.

His power clearly went up since just in the TOP alone, he fought a stronger Jiren with just Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan in 122 and 123 when before Jiren smashed him even with the Kaioken.

Okay then........ so why does that equate to a power increase?

Performance, whilst it can be indicative of power, isn't SOLELY indicative of power. Not only does the narrative never even hint towards this possibility, but in fact it actively goes against it by explicitly stating how our heroes are managing; examples include Vegeta catching onto Jiren's movement patterns, or Goku borrowing strategy from Krillin to adapt for himself.

We even see that when Jiren decides to stop messing around with testing his foes' might, like when Goku got on his case for insulting Toppo's performance after he had been defeated by Vegeta, he can still almost instantly destroy SSB Goku.