Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
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Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
since this is was a big decision as it was concerned with Majin boo revival , why do you think Goku didn't go ssj3 against Vegeta?
if he had done it then he could have stopped atleast one side of energy supply which vegeta was providing to Boo everytime he was damaging goku. goku himself said that He will try to end it quickly so that he doesn't provide boo the energy. also, even with time worry it would not take much to one shot vegeta to make him lose consciousness that's it. then he can do whatever he wants with his remaining time since his wish to participate in Tenka'ichi Budokai was already crushed. since, Majin Boo was the biggest threat in universe. stopping Boo took the main priority instead of fighting vegeta, so Going ssj3, one shotting vegeta, killing dabura and Babidi would end any chance of Boo revival, then goku can teach Goten trunks some fusion and then ask Piccolo to teach them the remaining part. what do you guys think? do you think it was necessary for Goku to fight majin vegeta in ssj2?
if he had done it then he could have stopped atleast one side of energy supply which vegeta was providing to Boo everytime he was damaging goku. goku himself said that He will try to end it quickly so that he doesn't provide boo the energy. also, even with time worry it would not take much to one shot vegeta to make him lose consciousness that's it. then he can do whatever he wants with his remaining time since his wish to participate in Tenka'ichi Budokai was already crushed. since, Majin Boo was the biggest threat in universe. stopping Boo took the main priority instead of fighting vegeta, so Going ssj3, one shotting vegeta, killing dabura and Babidi would end any chance of Boo revival, then goku can teach Goten trunks some fusion and then ask Piccolo to teach them the remaining part. what do you guys think? do you think it was necessary for Goku to fight majin vegeta in ssj2?
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Re: why didn't goku turn ssj3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
Out-of-universe reason: SS3 doesn't appear until later, so Toriyama probably hadn't even come up with the form at that point.
In-universe reason: Goku explains it later as wanting to give Vegeta the good fight that he wanted, as a way to hand-wave the reason I just stated above.
In-universe reason: Goku explains it later as wanting to give Vegeta the good fight that he wanted, as a way to hand-wave the reason I just stated above.
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Re: why didn't goku turn ssj3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
Here's what Goku said initially.
Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P10.5-8, P11.1-3
Piccolo: “Goku…There’s something I want to ask you while I’ve got the chance…[ ] …That Super Saiyan 3 thing earlier…if you had gone all-out, wouldn’t you have been able to defeat Majin Boo?...How about it, am I wrong?”
Goku: “Nah, I don’t know…When it comes to Majin Boo’s strength, it’s like a lie…I think that I probably couldn’t have won…”
Piccolo: “…Probably? Knowing you, why didn’t you try until the very end?...Does it have to do with that energy…?”
Goku: “No…I’m no longer a human who’s particularly even supposed to be here…I shouldn’t be the one to do it. It’d be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another…After all, some other outrageous guy might show up eventually, right? …It's a nasty gamble, but…Seeing those two super-gifted squirts, it made me want to take this gamble…”
Afterwards, Goku had this to say.
Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.4-6
Context: as Goku prepares to fight Boo
Goku: “Alrii~~iight. I’d better go all out right from the start…! If we get done in, then the entire universe will go ‘poof’…”
Vegeta: “Let me see this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing with my own eyes…”
Goku: “Is that alright? You just might not get your turn…I can say this now, but the truth is that with that fat Boo, I would have been able to defeat him at the time with Super Saiyan 3…However, I wanted the young guys to manage something…For the Earth’s sake too…”
Goku freely admits that he could have stopped the whole situation from happening, but because Goku believed that his role as the hero had passed; he wanted someone else to have the spotlight. So in the end, Goku opted not to go all out & gain any glory for himself. He probably only fought Vegeta on even ground just so they could finally have their rematch: the situation wasn't important or dire enough for Goku to desire an instant end to the conflict.
Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P10.5-8, P11.1-3
Piccolo: “Goku…There’s something I want to ask you while I’ve got the chance…[ ] …That Super Saiyan 3 thing earlier…if you had gone all-out, wouldn’t you have been able to defeat Majin Boo?...How about it, am I wrong?”
Goku: “Nah, I don’t know…When it comes to Majin Boo’s strength, it’s like a lie…I think that I probably couldn’t have won…”
Piccolo: “…Probably? Knowing you, why didn’t you try until the very end?...Does it have to do with that energy…?”
Goku: “No…I’m no longer a human who’s particularly even supposed to be here…I shouldn’t be the one to do it. It’d be better for these young guys to solve things somehow or another…After all, some other outrageous guy might show up eventually, right? …It's a nasty gamble, but…Seeing those two super-gifted squirts, it made me want to take this gamble…”
Afterwards, Goku had this to say.
Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.4-6
Context: as Goku prepares to fight Boo
Goku: “Alrii~~iight. I’d better go all out right from the start…! If we get done in, then the entire universe will go ‘poof’…”
Vegeta: “Let me see this ‘Super Saiyan 3’ thing with my own eyes…”
Goku: “Is that alright? You just might not get your turn…I can say this now, but the truth is that with that fat Boo, I would have been able to defeat him at the time with Super Saiyan 3…However, I wanted the young guys to manage something…For the Earth’s sake too…”
Goku freely admits that he could have stopped the whole situation from happening, but because Goku believed that his role as the hero had passed; he wanted someone else to have the spotlight. So in the end, Goku opted not to go all out & gain any glory for himself. He probably only fought Vegeta on even ground just so they could finally have their rematch: the situation wasn't important or dire enough for Goku to desire an instant end to the conflict.
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Re: Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
Before their fight, Goku told Vegeta he did not want to take damage from Vegeta and was going to go all out from the start.
And even after Vegeta goes Super Saiyan 2, he does not go Super Saiyan 3, his true full power that could defeat Vegeta in a blink of an eye. Toriyama didn't had Super Saiyan 3 in mind until Goku went after Babidi and Boo. He even says there's no way he could beat Majin Boo even before he knew the kids could fuse.
Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P5.3-4
Goku: “…I’ll be frank. It’s no use. I can’t defeat [Majin Boo]. [ ] …There was practically no gap between Vegeta’s true strength and mine…And Majin Boo is still fine despite Vegeta sacrificing himself, right? Sorry, but I couldn’t win, no matter what.”
Sure he did not want to take the glory of saving the world, but he believed was the last fighter capable of fighting Boo by that point. Everyone else was either dead or fodder.
So, there's no reason for Goku to not go Super Saiyan 3 right there. Only bad writting.
And even after Vegeta goes Super Saiyan 2, he does not go Super Saiyan 3, his true full power that could defeat Vegeta in a blink of an eye. Toriyama didn't had Super Saiyan 3 in mind until Goku went after Babidi and Boo. He even says there's no way he could beat Majin Boo even before he knew the kids could fuse.
Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P5.3-4
Goku: “…I’ll be frank. It’s no use. I can’t defeat [Majin Boo]. [ ] …There was practically no gap between Vegeta’s true strength and mine…And Majin Boo is still fine despite Vegeta sacrificing himself, right? Sorry, but I couldn’t win, no matter what.”
Sure he did not want to take the glory of saving the world, but he believed was the last fighter capable of fighting Boo by that point. Everyone else was either dead or fodder.
So, there's no reason for Goku to not go Super Saiyan 3 right there. Only bad writting.
Re: Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
Goku said several times that SS3’s energy consumption is collossal and he wasn’t used to the form, so I can see why he doesn’t consider himself any different from Vegeta in true strength.
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Re: Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
Because Toriyama hadn't thought of the form yet.
Re: Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
Out of Universe : Toriyama may not have thought of Ssj3 at the time.
In universe :
1- Goku didn't think Buu would be that strong (he points this out later) so even if he was released they could still deal with him.
2- Like Gohan, Ssj2 was a form reachable for Vegeta so if he didn't reach it then Goku would've taken him out with one blow as a Ssj2 which is what he was going to do, however, when Vegeta also showed he was able to use it Goku may have thought that using Ssj3 would be unfair as there was no way for Vegeta to reach it so to reward him for his hard work, he gave him the fight he wanted. Add to that Goku not having a good fight in 7 years so he may have thought a fight between 2 Ssj2s would be fun, at least compared to training alone in other world.
3- Goku wanted to save up his time on earth so he saw no reason to use it against Vegeta when he could take him out with 2.
4- Someone here awhile back pointed out that Goku may have thought that destroying Vegeta's pride would result in him completely switching over the the evil side and putting everything at risk once he went back to other world.
In universe :
1- Goku didn't think Buu would be that strong (he points this out later) so even if he was released they could still deal with him.
2- Like Gohan, Ssj2 was a form reachable for Vegeta so if he didn't reach it then Goku would've taken him out with one blow as a Ssj2 which is what he was going to do, however, when Vegeta also showed he was able to use it Goku may have thought that using Ssj3 would be unfair as there was no way for Vegeta to reach it so to reward him for his hard work, he gave him the fight he wanted. Add to that Goku not having a good fight in 7 years so he may have thought a fight between 2 Ssj2s would be fun, at least compared to training alone in other world.
3- Goku wanted to save up his time on earth so he saw no reason to use it against Vegeta when he could take him out with 2.
4- Someone here awhile back pointed out that Goku may have thought that destroying Vegeta's pride would result in him completely switching over the the evil side and putting everything at risk once he went back to other world.
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Re: Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
SSJ3 wasn't a concept that Toriyama had planned for by the time he wrote the chapter where Majin Vegeta and Goku duke it out.
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Re: Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
Out of universe reason:Toriyama had not invented the form yet
In universe reason:Goku is a liar/hypocrite or forgot how to do it,maybe a combination of all 3.
In universe reason:Goku is a liar/hypocrite or forgot how to do it,maybe a combination of all 3.
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Re: Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
I always felt that it was a combination of wanting a fair fight with Vegeta as well as believing that Vegeta was merely lost and wayward at the moment, and using SSJ3 even for a moment would have severely cut his time on Earth during a moment where he was likely needed. And even if he wasn't needed, it would have been upsetting to cut his 24 hours with his friends short. I don't understand Saiyan psychology so it's probable that he would have preferred spending those 24 hours fighting Vegeta anyway, but I'd like to think he wanted to spend at least some of it with his loved ones.
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Re: Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
Why is it bad writing that Goku didn’t go SSJ3 against Vegeta? Because he said he wanted to go all out? Because he later said he might not have been able to beat Boo? I see nothing inherently poorly written about retconning Goku into having lied to spare Vegeta’s pride/let the kids have a shot at Boo. Toriyama ends up needing to add a few layers to the whole scenario to justify SSJ3’s existence, but that just makes it richer. Simply breaking it down as “only bad writing” is reductive and ignores how the situation ends up making Goku just a bit more complex a character.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:Before their fight, Goku told Vegeta he did not want to take damage from Vegeta and was going to go all out from the start.
And even after Vegeta goes Super Saiyan 2, he does not go Super Saiyan 3, his true full power that could defeat Vegeta in a blink of an eye. Toriyama didn't had Super Saiyan 3 in mind until Goku went after Babidi and Boo. He even says there's no way he could beat Majin Boo even before he knew the kids could fuse.
Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P5.3-4
Goku: “…I’ll be frank. It’s no use. I can’t defeat [Majin Boo]. [ ] …There was practically no gap between Vegeta’s true strength and mine…And Majin Boo is still fine despite Vegeta sacrificing himself, right? Sorry, but I couldn’t win, no matter what.”
Sure he did not want to take the glory of saving the world, but he believed was the last fighter capable of fighting Boo by that point. Everyone else was either dead or fodder.
So, there's no reason for Goku to not go Super Saiyan 3 right there. Only bad writting.
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Re: Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
It doesn't make Goku a complex character, it just makes him dumb. Goku is already running over Vegeta's pride by using Super Saiyan 2. He justifies it's use by saying he wants to finish the fight quickly. If he was worried about Vegeta's pride, he would've stayed as a SSJ to give Vegeta a fair fight, given he didn't know Vegeta could turn into SSJ2.OhHiRenan wrote:Why is it bad writing that Goku didn’t go SSJ3 against Vegeta? Because he said he wanted to go all out? Because he later said he might not have been able to beat Boo? I see nothing inherently poorly written about retconning Goku into having lied to spare Vegeta’s pride/let the kids have a shot at Boo. Toriyama ends up needing to add a few layers to the whole scenario to justify SSJ3’s existence, but that just makes it richer. Simply breaking it down as “only bad writing” is reductive and ignores how the situation ends up making Goku just a bit more complex a character.
Give the kids a shot? To do what? He doesn't realize the kids can fuse until the end of the chapter. Things were hopeless at that point. Goku doesn't say he "might not have been able to beat Boo", he straight up says he's no match for Boo because there was no gap between him and Vegeta, who got demolished by Boo.
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Re: Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
Why didn't Roshi go full power like in DB Super at any point in DB and DBZ?
Re: Why didn't Goku turn SSJ3 in his fight against Majin Vegeta?
Because he wasn't that strong in DB and DBZ. His strength was merely retconned (like a lot of other things in DBS).Marco Polo wrote:Why didn't Roshi go full power like in DB Super at any point in DB and DBZ?
Goku already stated why he didn't go SS3 against Vegeta: