Does Akira Toriyama's Retroactive Intent Take Any Priority Over Guides Regarding The Story?

[theherodjl]

Like does his original intent of SSJ being "Ten times greater than whatever power that Goku had demonstrated up until then" have any degree of impact still? Or have the guides effectively made a point that cannot be argued against, for any reason, even if the creator didn't entirely agree?

[BlueVegerot]

Like does his original intent of SSJ being "Ten times greater than whatever power that Goku had demonstrated up until then" have any degree of impact still? Or have the guides effectively made a point that cannot be argued against, for any reason, even if the creator didn't entirely agree?

He said ssj felt more like a times 10 boost to him not that it was and it doesn't work cause kkx20 couldn't beat freeza so how is something half as strong beating him?

[theherodjl]

Like does his original intent of SSJ being "Ten times greater than whatever power that Goku had demonstrated up until then" have any degree of impact still? Or have the guides effectively made a point that cannot be argued against, for any reason, even if the creator didn't entirely agree?

He said ssj felt more like a times 10 boost to him not that it was and it doesn't work cause kkx20 couldn't beat freeza so how is something half as strong beating him?

His statement is admittedly vague: Toriyama could have meant that it was a ten times boost after the Kaio-ken x20 was taken into account. In a past tense setting, SSJ could have potentially been weaker than than the Kaioken x20 or greater than the Daizenshuu's x50 clarification. Does it mean that Toriyama's retroactive intent is wrong though if the guides said something else?

[BlueVegerot]

Like does his original intent of SSJ being "Ten times greater than whatever power that Goku had demonstrated up until then" have any degree of impact still? Or have the guides effectively made a point that cannot be argued against, for any reason, even if the creator didn't entirely agree?

He said ssj felt more like a times 10 boost to him not that it was and it doesn't work cause kkx20 couldn't beat freeza so how is something half as strong beating him?

His statement is admittedly vague: Toriyama could have meant that it was a ten times boost after the Kaio-ken x20 was taken into account. In a past tense setting, SSJ could have potentially been weaker than than the Kaioken x20 or greater than the Daizenshuu's x50 clarification. Does it mean that Toriyama's retroactive intent is wrong though if the guides said something else?

Its wrong if it completely goes against basic in universe logic.

SSJ is a 50 times multiplier on base , it has nothing to do with kaioken since thats a technique that only one saiyan knows.

KKx20 goku could not beat freeza

SSJ goku beat freeza.

At bare minimum ssj has to be more than 20 times base, there is no circumstance under which x10 works

[KBABZ]

It's a bit like Star Wars: officially it is the latest version of whatever happened, meaning they overwrite the guides since the information came later. However fans of course tend to pick and choose what is canon to them. For my part, I tend to ignore the guides because I find a lot of their information, while probably accurate, can easily be overwritten.

[theherodjl]

Its wrong if it completely goes against basic in universe logic.

SSJ is a 50 times multiplier on base , it has nothing to do with kaioken since thats a technique that only one saiyan knows.

KKx20 goku could not beat freeza

SSJ goku beat freeza.

At bare minimum ssj has to be more than 20 times base, there is no circumstance under which x10 works

Since when does in universe logic tend to be logical much in DB? Its usually "stronger guy, at the moment, wins!" except for instances when strategy & teamwork can overcome raw might.

Kaio-ken is not SSJ, true. But what if Toriyama did intend for SSJ to be a multiplier on top of the power that Goku had shown up til then, including the Kaio-ken x20?

Who says it can't work? Freeza had just been hit by the Genki Dama, and received damage to his body which is always an indicator of reduced Ki. It may have hurt his stamina too as Freeza was very much shocked as to how he was now quite a bit weaker than Goku, so quickly.

Do the guides override Toriyama's retroactive intentions?

[Desassina]

I don't think that Akira Toriyama has ever taken retroactive action based on the guides: he did it on his own. Majin Boo's origin has changed, because he felt like it, or was in a creative process for Beerus. Notice their similarities when it comes to destruction and sleeping and their difference with regards to Bibidi having created and not summoned Majin Boo. His involvement with Toyotaro led to a depiction of time travel that is different from the guides', but the inclusion of four time rings could be a nod from the writers in general, which Toriyama had to comply to since DBS is not just his creation. The guides are merely a collection of trivia that is nice to know, but barely the de facto standard, because it struggled to define things that were better off unnamed (Gohan being SSJ and SSJ2 when he was simply transformed).