In case their numbers were multipliers of 10. What this means is that they can take their base and SSJ levels up to different thresholds. When SSJ3 Goku faces Trunks, he's on a Boo arc realm, while Vegeta fights Goku Black on Battle of Gods' mixed with Resurrection of F and the Universe 6 Tournament. I didn't include the grades nor the numbered forms.Freeza Base
Freeza SSJ = Cell Base
--------------- Cell SSJ = Boo base
--------------- Cell Full Power = Boo SSJ = BoG base post-ritual
------------------------------------ Boo Ultimate = BoG SSJ = RoF base post-Whis' training
------------------------------------------------------ BoG SSJG = RoF SSJB (10%) = U6T SSJG = Full Power Goku Black
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- U6T SSJB post-SSJG (100%) = SSJ Rosé
Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
Let's try something different based on arcs.
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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
Freeza's forms are "restrained" forms.
Who says they have the same difference in power in RoF as they had in Z?
It's perfectly possible the RoF First Form is only 1/2 as strong as RoF Final Form instead of being 1/220 like in Z.
That said:
Goku(and Vegeta) transform against Cabba, Frost and Future Trunks.
Now, Cabba is from another universe. It's extremely unlikely he'd be stronger than SS3 Gotenk but I suppose it's possible.
But no way Piccolo, who struggled against Frost, Frost and Future Trunks are stronger than SS3 Gotenks. Or even on the same general level.
There is no reason whatsoever for Goku and Vegeta to use Super Saiyan if their NORMAL Base Forms are stronger than a SS3.
Which means they NORMALLY aren't.
Who says they have the same difference in power in RoF as they had in Z?
It's perfectly possible the RoF First Form is only 1/2 as strong as RoF Final Form instead of being 1/220 like in Z.
That said:
Goku(and Vegeta) transform against Cabba, Frost and Future Trunks.
Now, Cabba is from another universe. It's extremely unlikely he'd be stronger than SS3 Gotenk but I suppose it's possible.
But no way Piccolo, who struggled against Frost, Frost and Future Trunks are stronger than SS3 Gotenks. Or even on the same general level.
There is no reason whatsoever for Goku and Vegeta to use Super Saiyan if their NORMAL Base Forms are stronger than a SS3.
Which means they NORMALLY aren't.
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
Your entire argument is based on the premise that Cabba arbitrary "is extremely unlikely" to be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. And you say this based on absolutely nothing whatsoever.ankokudaishogun wrote:Freeza's forms are "restrained" forms.
Who says they have the same difference in power in RoF as they had in Z?
It's perfectly possible the RoF First Form is only 1/2 as strong as RoF Final Form instead of being 1/220 like in Z.
That said:
Goku(and Vegeta) transform against Cabba, Frost and Future Trunks.
Now, Cabba is from another universe. It's extremely unlikely he'd be stronger than SS3 Gotenk but I suppose it's possible.
But no way Piccolo, who struggled against Frost, Frost and Future Trunks are stronger than SS3 Gotenks. Or even on the same general level.
There is no reason whatsoever for Goku and Vegeta to use Super Saiyan if their NORMAL Base Forms are stronger than a SS3.
Which means they NORMALLY aren't.
Your final point is strange. Goku and Vegeta would go SSJ for the same reason they always have; to gain more power. They cant win in base so they go SSJ generally speaking.
Piccolo was never implied to be that strong. Goku told him he had no chance against Frost. His SBC/Makonkosoppo allows him to punch abive his weight class
Future Trunks has been gone for 13 years. That is a very long time. He is a hybrid saiyan with more potential so the sky is the limit for THIRTEEN YEARS worth of training.
It is just the nature of the series is that the new antagonists are far superior to the previous antagonists. The opponents Goku/Vegeta are fighting are leaps and bounds above anything they faced in DBZ and that is why they transform.
Spoiler:
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
Well, that's mine:
[spoiler]BoG:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS (failed ritual) < SS God < Chou SS + god ki (not completely controlled) < Beyond God
Ressurection F:
Goku Base < Base + god ki (not completely controlled) < SS + god ki (not completely controlled) < Beyond God < SS Blue
Champa saga:
Goku Base < Chou SS < Beyond God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken
Trunks saga:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken
Tournament of power:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < Chou SS < SS God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken < Ultra Instinct < Mastered Ultra Instinct[/spoiler]
Yeah, to me Chou Super Saiyan is a thing.
[spoiler]BoG:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS (failed ritual) < SS God < Chou SS + god ki (not completely controlled) < Beyond God
Ressurection F:
Goku Base < Base + god ki (not completely controlled) < SS + god ki (not completely controlled) < Beyond God < SS Blue
Champa saga:
Goku Base < Chou SS < Beyond God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken
Trunks saga:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken
Tournament of power:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < Chou SS < SS God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken < Ultra Instinct < Mastered Ultra Instinct[/spoiler]
Yeah, to me Chou Super Saiyan is a thing.
Last edited by SSJgogeto on Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
What is Chou SSJ and why are you using "Saiyan Beyond God"SSJgogeto wrote:Well, that's mine:
[spoiler]BoG:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS (failed ritual) < SS God < Chou SS + god ki (not completly controled) < Beyond God
Ressurection F:
Goku Base < Base + god ki (not completly controled) < SS + god ki (not completly controled) < Beyond God < SS Blue
Champa saga:
Goku Base < Chou SS < Beyond God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken
Trunks saga:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken
Tournament of power:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < Chou SS < SS God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken < Ultra Instinct < Mastered Ultra Instinct[/spoiler]
Yeah, to me Chou Super Saiyan is a thing.
Spoiler:
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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
Agreed with this. Chou from my understanding is just added god ki for you.SSJgogeto wrote:Well, that's mine:
[spoiler]BoG:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS (failed ritual) < SS God < Chou SS + god ki (not completly controled) < Beyond God
Ressurection F:
Goku Base < Base + god ki (not completly controled) < SS + god ki (not completly controled) < Beyond God < SS Blue
Champa saga:
Goku Base < Chou SS < Beyond God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken
Trunks saga:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken
Tournament of power:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < Chou SS < SS God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken < Ultra Instinct < Mastered Ultra Instinct[/spoiler]
Yeah, to me Chou Super Saiyan is a thing.
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
I'm using "Beyond God" because to me it's also a thing and not a theory. And Chou Super Saiyan is a transformation mentioned in one of the previews, I don't remember which one. It was never explained, so many people call it a theory.PFM18 wrote:What is Chou SSJ and why are you using "Saiyan Beyond God"
From my understanding, Chou is essentially Super Saiyan, but using all the power of the other transformations, more or less like Vegeta did in his fight against Beerus in the movie. In my point of view, this is the form Trunks was using before Rage.
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
Saiyan Beyind God was only a movies thing. In ROF they could use God Ki in their base and then when they transformed that was SSB.SSJgogeto wrote:I'm using "Beyond God" because to me it's also a thing and not a theory. And Chou Super Saiyan is a transformation mentioned in one of the previews, I don't remember which one. It was never explained, so many people call it a theory.PFM18 wrote:What is Chou SSJ and why are you using "Saiyan Beyond God"
From my understanding, Chou is essentially Super Saiyan, but using all the power of the other transformations, more or less like Vegeta did in his fight against Beerus in the movie. In my point of view, this is the form Trunks was using before Rage.
Not only do they not use God Ki in base, but the other transformations exist. Before they just had SBG and SSB. So in DBS Saiyan Beyond God is not a thing
DBS retconned the movies and that was one of those things.
Spoiler:
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
“Chou Super Saiyan” was how Vegeta’s Super Saiyan form was labeled in Episode 36’s summary, when he fought Magetta.SSJgogeto wrote:Chou Super Saiyan is a transformation mentioned in one of the previews, I don't remember which one.
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
Exactly, thanks.
Disagreed. Goku's fight with Frieza is essentially the same in the anime, also we have things like Copy Vegeta VS Gotenks, so Beyond God to me is a thing.PFM18 wrote:Saiyan Beyind God was only a movies thing. In ROF they could use God Ki in their base and then when they transformed that was SSB.
Not only do they not use God Ki in base, but the other transformations exist. Before they just had SBG and SSB. So in DBS Saiyan Beyond God is not a thing
DBS retconned the movies and that was one of those things.
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
The Copy Vegeta/ROF Freeza stuff are just an example of their base power being extremely strong. But there's no such "godly base" where they use God Ki in their base and are stronger than SSG in their base. That was explained in the promotional material along with the premise that they only have SSB and SBG and not any other forms. The fact that they have all their forms shows that it is a retcon.SSJgogeto wrote:Exactly, thanks.
Disagreed. Goku's fight with Frieza is essentially the same in the anime, also we have things like Copy Vegeta VS Gotenks, so Beyond God to me is a thing.PFM18 wrote:Saiyan Beyind God was only a movies thing. In ROF they could use God Ki in their base and then when they transformed that was SSB.
Not only do they not use God Ki in base, but the other transformations exist. Before they just had SBG and SSB. So in DBS Saiyan Beyond God is not a thing
DBS retconned the movies and that was one of those things.
Could it have been a mistake? was it mentioned again?Hugo Boss wrote:“Chou Super Saiyan” was how Vegeta’s Super Saiyan form was labeled in Episode 36’s summary, when he fought Magetta.SSJgogeto wrote:Chou Super Saiyan is a transformation mentioned in one of the previews, I don't remember which one.
Spoiler:
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
Not to me.PFM18 wrote:The Copy Vegeta/ROF Freeza stuff are just an example of their base power being extremely strong.
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
Uhh did you ignore everything else I said? It was movie only. There's no reason to believe it exists in DBSSSJgogeto wrote:Not to me.PFM18 wrote:The Copy Vegeta/ROF Freeza stuff are just an example of their base power being extremely strong.
Spoiler:
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
Like I said, Goku's fight with Frieza and some other moments are strong evidences of "Beyond God". Also, to me that can explain some things what happened in the anime.
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
I believe “Chou” is supposed to highlight how incredible Super Saiyan Vegeta is.PFM18 wrote:Could it have been a mistake? was it mentioned again?Hugo Boss wrote:“Chou Super Saiyan” was how Vegeta’s Super Saiyan form was labeled in Episode 36’s summary, when he fought Magetta.SSJgogeto wrote:Chou Super Saiyan is a transformation mentioned in one of the previews, I don't remember which one.
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
But not to distinguish between SSJ and another form "Chou Super Saiyan"?Hugo Boss wrote:I believe “Chou” is supposed to highlight how incredible Super Saiyan Vegeta is.PFM18 wrote:Could it have been a mistake? was it mentioned again?Hugo Boss wrote: “Chou Super Saiyan” was how Vegeta’s Super Saiyan form was labeled in Episode 36’s summary, when he fought Magetta.
Spoiler:
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
There isn’t another form, it’s just Super Saiyan.PFM18 wrote:But not to distinguish between SSJ and another form "Chou Super Saiyan"?Hugo Boss wrote:I believe “Chou” is supposed to highlight how incredible Super Saiyan Vegeta is.PFM18 wrote: Could it have been a mistake? was it mentioned again?
Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?
Obviously, No!!!!!
Base Goku isn't that strong!! He is weaker than Freezer in his last form (namek saga).
C'mon. Don't buy those millions units from the Daizenshuu and other guides.
Base Goku isn't that strong!! He is weaker than Freezer in his last form (namek saga).
C'mon. Don't buy those millions units from the Daizenshuu and other guides.
POWER LEVELS: (Updated / Restored / Leveled / No multiplier nor daizenshuu wrong info)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14197&p=1519362#p1519362 Check it out if you want some information.
POWER LEVELS:
Jaco the Patrolman vol. I - XI
Dragon Ball Minus
Dragon Ball vol. I - XLII
Dragon Ball Super manga cap. 1 - ???
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14197&p=1519362#p1519362 Check it out if you want some information.
POWER LEVELS:
Jaco the Patrolman vol. I - XI
Dragon Ball Minus
Dragon Ball vol. I - XLII
Dragon Ball Super manga cap. 1 - ???