Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by Desassina » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:42 pm

Let's try something different based on arcs.
Freeza Base
Freeza SSJ = Cell Base
--------------- Cell SSJ = Boo base
--------------- Cell Full Power = Boo SSJ = BoG base post-ritual
------------------------------------ Boo Ultimate = BoG SSJ = RoF base post-Whis' training
------------------------------------------------------ BoG SSJG = RoF SSJB (10%) = U6T SSJG = Full Power Goku Black
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- U6T SSJB post-SSJG (100%) = SSJ Rosé
In case their numbers were multipliers of 10. What this means is that they can take their base and SSJ levels up to different thresholds. When SSJ3 Goku faces Trunks, he's on a Boo arc realm, while Vegeta fights Goku Black on Battle of Gods' mixed with Resurrection of F and the Universe 6 Tournament. I didn't include the grades nor the numbered forms.

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:29 pm

Freeza's forms are "restrained" forms.
Who says they have the same difference in power in RoF as they had in Z?
It's perfectly possible the RoF First Form is only 1/2 as strong as RoF Final Form instead of being 1/220 like in Z.

That said:
Goku(and Vegeta) transform against Cabba, Frost and Future Trunks.
Now, Cabba is from another universe. It's extremely unlikely he'd be stronger than SS3 Gotenk but I suppose it's possible.
But no way Piccolo, who struggled against Frost, Frost and Future Trunks are stronger than SS3 Gotenks. Or even on the same general level.

There is no reason whatsoever for Goku and Vegeta to use Super Saiyan if their NORMAL Base Forms are stronger than a SS3.
Which means they NORMALLY aren't.

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by PFM18 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:44 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:Freeza's forms are "restrained" forms.
Who says they have the same difference in power in RoF as they had in Z?
It's perfectly possible the RoF First Form is only 1/2 as strong as RoF Final Form instead of being 1/220 like in Z.

That said:
Goku(and Vegeta) transform against Cabba, Frost and Future Trunks.
Now, Cabba is from another universe. It's extremely unlikely he'd be stronger than SS3 Gotenk but I suppose it's possible.
But no way Piccolo, who struggled against Frost, Frost and Future Trunks are stronger than SS3 Gotenks. Or even on the same general level.

There is no reason whatsoever for Goku and Vegeta to use Super Saiyan if their NORMAL Base Forms are stronger than a SS3.
Which means they NORMALLY aren't.
Your entire argument is based on the premise that Cabba arbitrary "is extremely unlikely" to be stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks. And you say this based on absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Your final point is strange. Goku and Vegeta would go SSJ for the same reason they always have; to gain more power. They cant win in base so they go SSJ generally speaking.

Piccolo was never implied to be that strong. Goku told him he had no chance against Frost. His SBC/Makonkosoppo allows him to punch abive his weight class

Future Trunks has been gone for 13 years. That is a very long time. He is a hybrid saiyan with more potential so the sky is the limit for THIRTEEN YEARS worth of training.

It is just the nature of the series is that the new antagonists are far superior to the previous antagonists. The opponents Goku/Vegeta are fighting are leaps and bounds above anything they faced in DBZ and that is why they transform.

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by SSJgogeto » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:41 pm

Well, that's mine:

[spoiler]BoG:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS (failed ritual) < SS God < Chou SS + god ki (not completely controlled) < Beyond God

Ressurection F:
Goku Base < Base + god ki (not completely controlled) < SS + god ki (not completely controlled) < Beyond God < SS Blue

Champa saga:
Goku Base < Chou SS < Beyond God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken

Trunks saga:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken

Tournament of power:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < Chou SS < SS God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken < Ultra Instinct < Mastered Ultra Instinct[/spoiler]

Yeah, to me Chou Super Saiyan is a thing.
Last edited by SSJgogeto on Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by PFM18 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:31 pm

SSJgogeto wrote:Well, that's mine:

[spoiler]BoG:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS (failed ritual) < SS God < Chou SS + god ki (not completly controled) < Beyond God

Ressurection F:
Goku Base < Base + god ki (not completly controled) < SS + god ki (not completly controled) < Beyond God < SS Blue

Champa saga:
Goku Base < Chou SS < Beyond God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken

Trunks saga:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken

Tournament of power:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < Chou SS < SS God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken < Ultra Instinct < Mastered Ultra Instinct[/spoiler]

Yeah, to me Chou Super Saiyan is a thing.
What is Chou SSJ and why are you using "Saiyan Beyond God"

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by shadowfox87 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:32 pm

SSJgogeto wrote:Well, that's mine:

[spoiler]BoG:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS (failed ritual) < SS God < Chou SS + god ki (not completly controled) < Beyond God

Ressurection F:
Goku Base < Base + god ki (not completly controled) < SS + god ki (not completly controled) < Beyond God < SS Blue

Champa saga:
Goku Base < Chou SS < Beyond God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken

Trunks saga:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken

Tournament of power:
Goku Base < SS < SS2 < SS3 < Chou SS < SS God < SS Blue < SS Blue + Kaioken < Ultra Instinct < Mastered Ultra Instinct[/spoiler]

Yeah, to me Chou Super Saiyan is a thing.
Agreed with this. Chou from my understanding is just added god ki for you.
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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by SSJgogeto » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:05 am

PFM18 wrote:What is Chou SSJ and why are you using "Saiyan Beyond God"
I'm using "Beyond God" because to me it's also a thing and not a theory. And Chou Super Saiyan is a transformation mentioned in one of the previews, I don't remember which one. It was never explained, so many people call it a theory.

From my understanding, Chou is essentially Super Saiyan, but using all the power of the other transformations, more or less like Vegeta did in his fight against Beerus in the movie. In my point of view, this is the form Trunks was using before Rage.

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by PFM18 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:31 am

SSJgogeto wrote:
PFM18 wrote:What is Chou SSJ and why are you using "Saiyan Beyond God"
I'm using "Beyond God" because to me it's also a thing and not a theory. And Chou Super Saiyan is a transformation mentioned in one of the previews, I don't remember which one. It was never explained, so many people call it a theory.

From my understanding, Chou is essentially Super Saiyan, but using all the power of the other transformations, more or less like Vegeta did in his fight against Beerus in the movie. In my point of view, this is the form Trunks was using before Rage.
Saiyan Beyind God was only a movies thing. In ROF they could use God Ki in their base and then when they transformed that was SSB.

Not only do they not use God Ki in base, but the other transformations exist. Before they just had SBG and SSB. So in DBS Saiyan Beyond God is not a thing

DBS retconned the movies and that was one of those things.

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:38 am

SSJgogeto wrote:Chou Super Saiyan is a transformation mentioned in one of the previews, I don't remember which one.
“Chou Super Saiyan” was how Vegeta’s Super Saiyan form was labeled in Episode 36’s summary, when he fought Magetta.

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by SSJgogeto » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:29 pm

Exactly, thanks.
PFM18 wrote:Saiyan Beyind God was only a movies thing. In ROF they could use God Ki in their base and then when they transformed that was SSB.

Not only do they not use God Ki in base, but the other transformations exist. Before they just had SBG and SSB. So in DBS Saiyan Beyond God is not a thing

DBS retconned the movies and that was one of those things.
Disagreed. Goku's fight with Frieza is essentially the same in the anime, also we have things like Copy Vegeta VS Gotenks, so Beyond God to me is a thing.

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by PFM18 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:12 pm

SSJgogeto wrote:Exactly, thanks.
PFM18 wrote:Saiyan Beyind God was only a movies thing. In ROF they could use God Ki in their base and then when they transformed that was SSB.

Not only do they not use God Ki in base, but the other transformations exist. Before they just had SBG and SSB. So in DBS Saiyan Beyond God is not a thing

DBS retconned the movies and that was one of those things.
Disagreed. Goku's fight with Frieza is essentially the same in the anime, also we have things like Copy Vegeta VS Gotenks, so Beyond God to me is a thing.
The Copy Vegeta/ROF Freeza stuff are just an example of their base power being extremely strong. But there's no such "godly base" where they use God Ki in their base and are stronger than SSG in their base. That was explained in the promotional material along with the premise that they only have SSB and SBG and not any other forms. The fact that they have all their forms shows that it is a retcon.
Hugo Boss wrote:
SSJgogeto wrote:Chou Super Saiyan is a transformation mentioned in one of the previews, I don't remember which one.
“Chou Super Saiyan” was how Vegeta’s Super Saiyan form was labeled in Episode 36’s summary, when he fought Magetta.
Could it have been a mistake? was it mentioned again?

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by SSJgogeto » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:29 pm

PFM18 wrote:The Copy Vegeta/ROF Freeza stuff are just an example of their base power being extremely strong.
Not to me.

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by PFM18 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:37 pm

SSJgogeto wrote:
PFM18 wrote:The Copy Vegeta/ROF Freeza stuff are just an example of their base power being extremely strong.
Not to me.
Uhh did you ignore everything else I said? It was movie only. There's no reason to believe it exists in DBS

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by SSJgogeto » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:57 pm

Like I said, Goku's fight with Frieza and some other moments are strong evidences of "Beyond God". Also, to me that can explain some things what happened in the anime.

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:18 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:
SSJgogeto wrote:Chou Super Saiyan is a transformation mentioned in one of the previews, I don't remember which one.
“Chou Super Saiyan” was how Vegeta’s Super Saiyan form was labeled in Episode 36’s summary, when he fought Magetta.
Could it have been a mistake? was it mentioned again?
I believe “Chou” is supposed to highlight how incredible Super Saiyan Vegeta is.

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by PFM18 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:30 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote: “Chou Super Saiyan” was how Vegeta’s Super Saiyan form was labeled in Episode 36’s summary, when he fought Magetta.
Could it have been a mistake? was it mentioned again?
I believe “Chou” is supposed to highlight how incredible Super Saiyan Vegeta is.
But not to distinguish between SSJ and another form "Chou Super Saiyan"?

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:18 am

PFM18 wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:
PFM18 wrote: Could it have been a mistake? was it mentioned again?
I believe “Chou” is supposed to highlight how incredible Super Saiyan Vegeta is.
But not to distinguish between SSJ and another form "Chou Super Saiyan"?
There isn’t another form, it’s just Super Saiyan.

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Re: Is Base Goku (Current) above SsjG Goku BoG arc?

Post by Mattias_ » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:08 pm

Obviously, No!!!!!

Base Goku isn't that strong!! He is weaker than Freezer in his last form (namek saga).

C'mon. Don't buy those millions units from the Daizenshuu and other guides.
POWER LEVELS: (Updated / Restored / Leveled / No multiplier nor daizenshuu wrong info)
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POWER LEVELS:

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