Small SSj multi for fusion characters in the manga?

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Saturnine
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Small SSj multi for fusion characters in the manga?

Post by Saturnine » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:43 am

We all know that base Gotenks did a better job against Fat Buu than SSj2 Majin Vegeta did. We also know that SSj Gotenks was meant to be "stronger than SSj3 Goku". But put 50x on top of base Gotenks, and you wind up with someone over 15x stronger than SSj3 Goku in just SSJ. Was the difference supposed to be that huge? That's like dunno... Seth The Programmer level of insanity.

I always assumed that, approximately:

SSj2 Majin Vegeta: 200
Base Gotenks: 250
Majin Buu: 700
SSj3 Goku: 800
SSj Gotenks: 1000

Add the fact that after the RoSaT training, base Gotenks was supposed to be even stronger than SSj Gotenks previously, don't you think a small SSj multiplier is kind of necessary in order to avoid complete absurdity? Back in the days when the "decreasing multiplier theory" was still strong, everyone in the Buu arc had like a 5x boost from SSj. I'm not saying that should be the case by any means for unfused characters. But for fused ones - even a small multiplier like this would still keep them comfortably ahead of the unfused characters, on account on them being hundreds of times stronger by default.

I know that Fusion and even Potara has been somewhat toned down in Super, but back in the days of just the manga, it was the most amazing power-up possible, and even base fusion chars were OP as fuck, to put it mildly. Even if you disregard filler, many would put base Vegetto above Ultimate Gohan already. Even a 5x multi in that case is already tremendous.

What are your opinions?

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Re: Small SSj multi for fusion characters in the manga?

Post by Ssjcell » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:55 pm

I don't think that we have reason to doubt this. I mean on one hand we can assume that ssj is a similar boost as a fused person to a non fused person. The evidence for a smaller boost when supreme Kia asks Goku if Gotenks is stronger than him as a ssj3 Goku says something to the effect of well I can do it too and acts like he is about as strong as Gotenks. But to go off on a tangent for a second I don't see ssj as a specific number I see it as an ability to dig deep down and be able to gather a lot more ki than if your not at ssj , I just don't see it at a specific number I think that's just a fan theory that the internet created. If you look at a.t. interviews he expressed that he doesn't see it as a specific number boost he always says it's around 10x intimating that it's like a pool of energy one can gather ss2 is a bigger pool ss3 is an even bigger pool. But to answer your question I think it's about the same but the boys inexperiance is a reason why they can't gather as much energy while powering up compared to Goku a more experienced ssj.

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Re: Small SSj multi for fusion characters in the manga?

Post by Pantalones » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:30 pm

I always figured base Gotenks was just weaker than SSj2 Vegeta, and his attempt at a fight with Buu without transforming was more of a joke than anything else (didn't the manga literally just have one panel of him flying off to fight Buu, then immediately coming back looking all beat-up with cartoonish injuries? Maybe it's just been a while, but I don't remember a base Gotenks vs. Fat Buu fight actually being shown.)

So Gotenks doesn't necessarily have to be much, much stronger than SSj3 Goku. Not until he goes SSj3 himself, of course.

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Re: Small SSj multi for fusion characters in the manga?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:37 pm

I don't think it's necessarily that any SSJ multiplier got smaller as time went on, but more along the lines of the Saiyans achieving such control over their power that they could temporarily access some degree of their full power(SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3) without the need to fully transform.
Here are a few examples.
Base Goku & Gohan withstanding some of LSSJ Broly's Ki blasts in M8.
Base Gohan battling SSJ Broly, and a worn out Base Kid Trunks stopping LSSJ Broly from further pushing his massive Ki blast in M10.
A not-quite-full strength SSJ Gohan(he was NOT SSJ2 no matter how you want to argue it) fighting on par with Dabura(Perfect Cell-tier).
Base Kid Trunks withstanding a punch directly from Super Boo in the ROSAT(could possibly be a gag-feat.)
SSJ Gotenks causing himself & Super Boo(despite proving to be a lot stronger than SSJ Gotenks) to be equally stunned after colliding heads with him in the ROSAT(another gag-feat perhaps?)
SSJ2 Goku fighting on par with Pure Boo, and Base Vegeta briefly taking him on as well on the Kaioshin planet.

Not a truly reduced multiplier, but a reduced need to use the full multiplier due to greater Ki control.
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Re: Small SSj multi for fusion characters in the manga?

Post by Ssjcell » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:25 pm

Speaking of "the punch" super buu's punch on trunks was definitely buu's revenge for trunks sucker kicking fat Buu when fighting vegeta and I don't believe it was a gag move.

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