Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:09 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Weaker than Roshi, in the ways that count, apparently.
Humans were confirmed weaker than the kids as Super Saiyans.

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by dragon boss z » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:28 pm

Ssjcell wrote: It was just a guess to try to start a discussion, but to counter something you said, I think it's laughable to put base Goku weaker than frieza. Goku was heavily suppressed when beerus made that statement. Goku Gohan and vegeta were all stated to be way above piccolo in their base forms by dabura and babidi right before kabito was killed. Piccolo was probably well above cell juniors why does everyone just ignore this statement and act like it never happened?
Base Goku and Vegeta were never stated to be above Piccolo, all of them were supposed to be hiding their power anyways so if anything Dabura sensed their hidden power. And even after going ssj, Beerus still staid Frieza was the best Goku could do, so no, you can't blame it on being suppressed.

And even if we say base Goku and Vegeta are above Piccolo, there is still no reason why base Goten and Trunks would be even close to Buu. In RoF and the U6 arc Buu was implied to be the strongest Z warrior besides Goku and Vegeta, meaning at the very least ssj Goten and Trunks are still below Fat Buu, so there is no way for their base forms to be super Buu level.

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by Lionel » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:35 pm

Do we have anything to gauge their strength with? All that I can remember is Piccolo being chosen over the kids individually back in the Champa arc. I could believe Trunks doing at least the occasional work out to keep in shape, though Goten 's efforts to train himself would be hampered by his mother encouraging him to study academics like Gohan. Who knows? Maybe Trunks improved a bit while Goten's power waned or remained unchanged in the best case scenario.

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by Ssjcell » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:48 pm

Yeah I'm not trying to debate their at super Buu I was just throwing it out there we all know ssj Goku is far above frieza though he was fighting cell 8 years before bog. I think it's silly to think that Goku hasn't far surpassed where he was what 11 years prior to Buu saga. He didn't need ssj vs yakon, the base Saiyans are noted to be far above piccolo, and Goku wasn't instantly obliterated by ssj vegetas blast at the world tournament. Also Gohan was fighting dabura in his base state and the kids where fighting 18 pretty much evenly before turning ssj and as we all know the androids have good potential she was probably stronger than she was 7 years prior. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the saiyans are above frieza by the cell games in their base states.

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by Ssjcell » Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:53 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
Ssjcell wrote: It was just a guess to try to start a discussion, but to counter something you said, I think it's laughable to put base Goku weaker than frieza. Goku was heavily suppressed when beerus made that statement. Goku Gohan and vegeta were all stated to be way above piccolo in their base forms by dabura and babidi right before kabito was killed. Piccolo was probably well above cell juniors why does everyone just ignore this statement and act like it never happened?
Base Goku and Vegeta were never stated to be above Piccolo, all of them were supposed to be hiding their power anyways so if anything Dabura sensed their hidden power. And even after going ssj, Beerus still staid Frieza was the best Goku could do, so no, you can't blame it on being suppressed.

And even if we say base Goku and Vegeta are above Piccolo, there is still no reason why base Goten and Trunks would be even close to Buu. In RoF and the U6 arc Buu was implied to be the strongest Z warrior besides Goku and Vegeta, meaning at the very least ssj Goten and Trunks are still below Fat Buu, so there is no way for their base forms to be super Buu level.
How does one sense hidden power? He was obviously sensing who were the strongest ...

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by dragon boss z » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:35 pm

Ssjcell wrote: How does one sense hidden power? He was obviously sensing who were the strongest ...
Well they were all suppressed when Dabura attacked, so he must have had some way to know. The simplest explanation is plot. And even if base Goku and Vegeta were above Piccolo, which is highly unlikely as it was pretty much stated their ssj form was still weaker than ssj2 cell games Gohan, there is pretty much no way rusty base Gohan was stronger than Piccolo.

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by Ssjcell » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:13 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
Ssjcell wrote: How does one sense hidden power? He was obviously sensing who were the strongest ...
Well they were all suppressed when Dabura attacked, so he must have had some way to know. The simplest explanation is plot. And even if base Goku and Vegeta were above Piccolo, which is highly unlikely as it was pretty much stated their ssj form was still weaker than ssj2 cell games Gohan, there is pretty much no way rusty base Gohan was stronger than Piccolo.
Why couldn't he be Goku didn't sense that he was weaker he treated him as an equal and Gohan was world's ahead of piccolo in the cell games ...

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by dragon boss z » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:57 pm

Ssjcell wrote: Why couldn't he be Goku didn't sense that he was weaker he treated him as an equal and Gohan was world's ahead of piccolo in the cell games ...
Goku and Vegeta both mentioned how they surpassed ssj2 Gohan, but only after they went ssj2 themselves, meaning their regular ssj form was weaker than cell games ssj2 Gohan. And guides say ssj2 is only a 2x multiplier, meaning at least Goku who was around ssj Gohan during the Cell at max got around 2x stronger. And Gohan actually got weaker since then, so his base being above Piccolo who was strong enough to impress post ROSAT Trunks is highly unlikely.

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by Mac » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:33 am

They don't come off as very strong, especially as individuals.I can't imagine they're much different then the Buu arc.

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by DestructoDisc » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:14 pm

Didn't they struggle with a giant snake in the first episode of Super?

For some reason they come off much weaker to me than they were in Z.

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:17 pm

DestructoDisc wrote:Didn't they struggle with a giant snake in the first episode of Super?

For some reason they come off much weaker to me than they were in Z.
To be fair though they held back against the snake to avoid collateral damage.
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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:35 pm

Probably Freeza tier or lower given how much Toei shits on them. I mean, even SSJ Gotenks was implied to be weaker than FPSSJ Tier on FnF, let alone the boys who are supposed to be much weaker than Gotenks.

This is a huge character waste given how in the Boo Arc they had power up there with the FPSSJs, but now they would be lucky to beat the Ginyu Force.
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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by Ssjcell » Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:27 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:Probably Freeza tier or lower given how much Toei shits on them. I mean, even SSJ Gotenks was implied to be weaker than FPSSJ Tier on FnF, let alone the boys who are supposed to be much weaker than Gotenks.

This is a huge character waste given how in the Boo Arc they had power up there with the FPSSJs, but now they would be lucky to beat the Ginyu Force.
Lucky to beat the Ginyu force come on man lol that's absurd

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:48 pm

Ssjcell wrote:
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:Probably Freeza tier or lower given how much Toei shits on them. I mean, even SSJ Gotenks was implied to be weaker than FPSSJ Tier on FnF, let alone the boys who are supposed to be much weaker than Gotenks.

This is a huge character waste given how in the Boo Arc they had power up there with the FPSSJs, but now they would be lucky to beat the Ginyu Force.
Lucky to beat the Ginyu force come on man lol that's absurd
Considering how Super puts more emphasis on skill and techniques as opposed to raw power, Guldo and Ginyu's special abilities might give the kids major trouble.
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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by Ssjcell » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:31 pm

Dude yeah that sounds cute in theory but in reality they would obliterate guldo and Ginyu in like 3 seconds

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by 1345521 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:33 am

Trunks and goten are about equal to cell juniors in power. Which makes them about cell games vegeta and trunks tier.

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:51 am

Ssjcell wrote:Lucky to beat the Ginyu force come on man lol that's absurd
Toei had them struggling against Freeza level foes in YSG! and against some Nazis in M12. I now neither of them are canon, but both, like Super, were directed by Toei, and it seems like Toei has literally no interest in using the kids whatsoever and think they're piss weak.

Though at least that special chapter (Or whatever was that) imply they're still as strong as their Boo Arc selves in the Manga... And it debunks the Goten/Trunks nerfers who think they're FPSSJ Tier.
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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by Ssjcell » Sat Jul 28, 2018 6:39 pm

They struggled against the Nazi's? you mean when they were destroying the army and when Hitler was talking about recruiting them and now the Holocaust apparently happened in Dragonball lol , I see them as mastered Super Saiyan Goku cell games minimum I suppose Akira wrote himself into a corner with the eoz part of the manga with goten losing against pan ...

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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by TobyS » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:16 am

Weaker than post rosat buy saga because they didn't train since then. Not sure how much they slipped tho.
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Re: Trunks and gotens strength by the TOP

Post by p-hyvo » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:01 am

considering that they never trained since buu saga, they are a little weaker than they were there, or maybe 5-15% stronger because, even if not trained, they grew up and they sure are a little stronger (mere physical strenght wise)
gotenks isnt a top tier anymore in dbs, as we have seen even base Goku (and a a lot weaker Goku than the one we have now) bitchslappes ssj3 gotenks with no effort

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