Future Trunks Timeline in Android arc could have been saved if Goku took actions from otherworld?

[Ssjcell]

Listen I know it's a movie but he used it in Bojack that means he can use it in trunks timeline because the anime is an alternate timeline to the movies.
Most people accept this the movies timeline's goku's accomplishments are more impressive than the manga/anime Goku but I digress. movie timeline Goku accomplishments mirror the anime therefore in my opinion it can be done.

[Kokonoe]

Cell arc is my favorite by a substantial margin, but yeah, I do think this is an oversight by Toriyama. Like...even if it wasn't enough to save the timeline, the fact that Trunks has no interactions with Goku talking with telepathy nor Gohan is a huge flaw. It would've made a difference in the character's interactions, and it would've made the situation less "isolated" if Goku was constantly dropping in to give tips or advice.

[Ripper 30]

this is not the ''Saiyan Arc'' the Z Fighters got special treatment prior because their were going to be revived with the namekian DB. thus, they were allowed to train with kaio for a few months and thanks to Piccolo's plan to use porunga to wish kami back, he was able to bring em back, but in Trunks timeline they were all killed by the andriods so characters like Choazu,Krillin [CANNOT] be bring back this means it's pointless to meet with kaio when you got Gohan stronger than them and was also killed the last hope was trunks.
And Goku can't use the instant transmission to go to the living world while he is dead. At most, he would need Baba's help to go for one day. We don't even know if Baba is alive in the future timeline.

Kaio didn't even knew about the Androids and Cell, meaning that he would have no motive or incentive to contact the Nameks for anything. He only found out when Goku told him, which is why he didn't step in to help in the future timeline. Bulma would have no means of contacting him, which makes communication impossible on both sides. Even if Goku could direct her to where New Namek was, he would be unable to give a precise location and, as stated in the manga/show itself, would take many years to find the planet.

Anyway, Kaio wouldn't interfere for the same reason why he didn't warn anyone about Freeza heading to Earth for revenge or other threats. Also, deceased Z Fighters probably wouldn't interfere in Earth's affairs since it's no longer their problem (which is the exact mindset Goku had when he was dead and Buu was attacking the Earth.) Also, no one knew the location of New Namek.

realistically once all of the Z fighters died Kaio would have viewed Earth as a lost cause and moved on. He has an entire quadrant to look after, he can't be so concerned with one planet going down, especially when NOBODY who died would have been strong enough to come close to stopping the androids.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

That topic lift a really good point !

Once dead I can't see Goku doing jack shit for his friend on earth with his selfish attitude he would have gone to meet Kaio in the after world and create a plan from the north kaio place to act against the artificial human and later Cell. He would have warn the gang that Kami's lookout harbor the Hyperbolic time chamber where Vegeta would have train with Gohan, Tenshinhan would have train there with Piccolo.

Kaio wouldn't refuse to help Goku because he eliminated (in Trunks Timeline) Frieza so Kaio would have been grateful.

Damn I realise how more dumb now this whole Android/Cell Saga is !

Yamcha being made a Womanizer BS
Android more powerful than SSJ/Frieza without any explanation
Vegeta attitude who makes no sense comparing to his portrayal in the Namek Saga
Gohan SSJ2 activation through a no name death and sudden pacifist BS attitude

And now we add the whole non sense that is Future Trunks timeline. Oh gosh

[Ripper 30]

That topic lift a really good point !

Once dead I can't see Goku doing jack shit for his friend on earth with his selfish attitude he would have gone to meet Kaio in the after world and create a plan from the north kaio place to act against the artificial human and later Cell. He would have warn the gang that Kami's lookout harbor the Hyperbolic time chamber where Vegeta would have train with Gohan, Tenshinhan would have train there with Piccolo.



Kaio wouldn't refuse to help Goku because he eliminated (in Trunks Timeline) Frieza so Kaio would have been grateful.

Damn I realise how more dumb now this whole Android/Cell Saga is !

it was never implied in the original manga that Goku retained his body, in Cell arc he retained it because he died saving earth. the androids attacked after six months from Goku's death, even if he had the body he would have passed on to Next world to train more since he doesn't know what's gonna happen and either way it's not his duty. i don't see him being selfish, if he died during the time of Android attack and still ignored the earth then it would have been selfish action but no, he died way before the attack so like we saw after Cell arc, he will go to next world and train with stronger fighters and leaving earth's fate to Younger people and also him dying of natural cause won't get him revived so either way he should have no interest in living again. also it's all on the assumption that Goku gets a body which is not necessary due to time travel anomaly.

Yamcha being made a Womanizer BS
Android more powerful than SSJ/Frieza without any explanation
Vegeta attitude who makes no sense comparing to his portrayal in the Namek Saga
Gohan SSJ2 activation through a no name death and sudden pacifist BS attitude


And now we add the whole non sense that is Future Trunks timeline. Oh gosh

[/quote]

Yamcha thing is valid, i agree.

again, it's the fans who put Saiyans on some pedestal when they weren't really that strong. if Yamcha can become Raditz level in Saiyan Arc then i don't see any issue here. since they are built keeping their strength in mind.

Getting someone get beaten up and seeing some getting killed is difficult, do you think Gohan got SSJ2 because "he formed a bond with Android 16 and can't see his friend killed"? no, it was because Android 16 was like a parallel to Gohan and both were pacifist and wanted peace that's why his words reached Gohan better than anyone.
also the pacifist attitude is expected. The Cell Games are a sufficiently different scenario from anything he's encountered before. One, he's just turned Super Saiyan and is genuinely scared to see what would happen to both him and the Earth were he to go into a blind rage. Two, it isn't a life-or-death situation in which he's on his own: it's an organized death match his father has callously tossed him into; every other time Gohan has taken up a fight, there's been an immediate threat to his friends and family; what Cell represents is more intellectual. There are going to be very different emotions in play.

we can't call it continuity error or plothole based on speculation, it's easy to assume that there was no chance in the future timeline since Gohan and trunks were the only ones left and they weren't that badly outmatched by them, infact they were able to keep up with them.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

it was never implied in the original manga that Goku retained his body, in Cell arc he retained it because he died saving earth. the androids attacked after six months from Goku's death, even if he had the body he would have passed on to Next world to train more since he doesn't know what's gonna happen and either way it's not his duty. i don't see him being selfish, if he died during the time of Android attack and still ignored the earth then it would have been selfish action but no, he died way before the attack so like we saw after Cell arc, he will go to next world and train with stronger fighters and leaving earth's fate to Younger people and also him dying of natural cause won't get him revived so either way he should have no interest in living again. also it's all on the assumption that Goku gets a body which is not necessary due to time travel anomaly.

It was not needed to be implied because Goku retained his body when he got killed by Piccolo when he sacrificed himself for get down Raditz, it's a given that he would have retain his body once he got killed again by anything. I see him selfish dude we spoke about a battle crazy Saiyan, if you think he wouldn't stay put seeing his friend dealing with the Cyborg then you doesn't know Goku at all. Look at Super.

Do you think Gohan got SSJ2 because "he formed a bond with Android 16 and can't see his friend killed"? no, it was because Android 16 was like a parallel to Gohan and both were pacifist and wanted peace that's why his words reached Gohan better than anyone.
also the pacifist attitude is expected. The Cell Games are a sufficiently different scenario from anything he's encountered before. One, he's just turned Super Saiyan and is genuinely scared to see what would happen to both him and the Earth were he to go into a blind rage. Two, it isn't a life-or-death situation in which he's on his own: it's an organized death match his father has callously tossed him into; every other time Gohan has taken up a fight, there's been an immediate threat to his friends and family; what Cell represents is more intellectual. There are going to be very different emotions in play.

we can't call it continuity error or plothole based on speculation, it's easy to assume that there was no chance in the future timeline since Gohan and trunks were the only ones left and they weren't that badly outmatched by them, infact they were able to keep up with them.

Excuse me if I don't buy any of this at all, this parallele is BS for plot convenience because Toriyama had no clue at all to how to deal with Android 16 if he remained alive in the Z-Team, he got lazy. And lol Android 16 a pacifist excuse me remember his attitude towards Goku like he wanted to kill him on the post.

I side my opinion with member Lord Beerus on this whole Arc that are a total mess.

[Kokonoe]

it was never implied in the original manga that Goku retained his body, in Cell arc he retained it because he died saving earth. the androids attacked after six months from Goku's death, even if he had the body he would have passed on to Next world to train more since he doesn't know what's gonna happen and either way it's not his duty. i don't see him being selfish, if he died during the time of Android attack and still ignored the earth then it would have been selfish action but no, he died way before the attack so like we saw after Cell arc, he will go to next world and train with stronger fighters and leaving earth's fate to Younger people and also him dying of natural cause won't get him revived so either way he should have no interest in living again. also it's all on the assumption that Goku gets a body which is not necessary due to time travel anomaly.

It was not needed to be implied because Goku retained his body when he got killed by Piccolo when he sacrificed himself for get down Raditz, it's a given that he would have retain his body once he got killed again by anything. I see him selfish dude we spoke about a battle crazy Saiyan, if you think he wouldn't stay put seeing his friend dealing with the Cyborg then you doesn't know Goku at all. Look at Super.

Do you think Gohan got SSJ2 because "he formed a bond with Android 16 and can't see his friend killed"? no, it was because Android 16 was like a parallel to Gohan and both were pacifist and wanted peace that's why his words reached Gohan better than anyone.
also the pacifist attitude is expected. The Cell Games are a sufficiently different scenario from anything he's encountered before. One, he's just turned Super Saiyan and is genuinely scared to see what would happen to both him and the Earth were he to go into a blind rage. Two, it isn't a life-or-death situation in which he's on his own: it's an organized death match his father has callously tossed him into; every other time Gohan has taken up a fight, there's been an immediate threat to his friends and family; what Cell represents is more intellectual. There are going to be very different emotions in play.

we can't call it continuity error or plothole based on speculation, it's easy to assume that there was no chance in the future timeline since Gohan and trunks were the only ones left and they weren't that badly outmatched by them, infact they were able to keep up with them.

Excuse me if I don't buy any of this at all, this parallele is BS for plot convenience because Toriyama had no clue at all to how to deal with Android 16 if he remained alive in the Z-Team, he got lazy. And lol Android 16 a pacifist excuse me remember his attitude towards Goku like he wanted to kill him on the post.

I side my opinion with member Lord Beerus on this whole Arc that are a total mess.

Super is not the original manga and should not be used in discussions on the manga. Super is a vastly different entity despite it being a follow up. It doesn't even properly connect with End of Z and there's no mention of God forms in End of Z either.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

Super is not the original manga and should not be used in discussions on the manga. Super is a vastly different entity despite it being a follow up. It doesn't even properly connect with End of Z and there's no mention of God forms in End of Z either.

Super is canon as well as Minus so no I won't kept them seperate at all !

[Hellspawn28]

1. That's unlikely as he lets Goku come back to Earth so he can participate in a regular tournament on Earth and hang out with his friends & family. He didn't know Majin Boo was going to show up and cause trouble.

That's different since Yama was nice enough to do that seeing he knows that Goku has save the Universe before. With #17 and #18, it would be different since he feels like that they hold no threat to anyone outside of Earth.

[ekrolo2]

1. That's unlikely as he lets Goku come back to Earth so he can participate in a regular tournament on Earth and hang out with his friends & family. He didn't know Majin Boo was going to show up and cause trouble.

That's different since Yama was nice enough to do that seeing he knows that Goku has save the Universe before. With #17 and #18, it would be different since he feels like that they hold no threat to anyone outside of Earth.

Which is in no way a refute of what I said before: Yama lets Goku come back so he can hang around with his friends but he's not going to let the even more accomplished Future Goku who kills Freeza AND King Cold go back for something that actually matters?

[Ripper 30]

1. That's unlikely as he lets Goku come back to Earth so he can participate in a regular tournament on Earth and hang out with his friends & family. He didn't know Majin Boo was going to show up and cause trouble.

That's different since Yama was nice enough to do that seeing he knows that Goku has save the Universe before. With #17 and #18, it would be different since he feels like that they hold no threat to anyone outside of Earth.

Which is in no way a refute of what I said before: Yama lets Goku come back so he can hang around with his friends but he's not going to let the even more accomplished Future Goku who kills Freeza AND King Cold go back for something that actually matters?

the situation is different here, we don't even know whether Baba survived or not and he can do nothing against those androids. also, Androids are not universal threat, why would enma care for it that much? Future Gohan was able to keep up with them for years and i think just like Boo arc, it's not his job to do save earth after being dead.

1. That's unlikely as he lets Goku come back to Earth so he can participate in a regular tournament on Earth and hang out with his friends & family. He didn't know Majin Boo was going to show up and cause trouble.

That's different since Yama was nice enough to do that seeing he knows that Goku has save the Universe before. With #17 and #18, it would be different since he feels like that they hold no threat to anyone outside of Earth.

exactly. in his death by Piccolo's Makankosappo, Kami was the one who rushed in otherwise if he was going to retain his body automatically after dying then, why did he even bothered?
in Cell arc he passed away in a heroic way by teleporting Cell away from earth, but in Future Timeline he died lying on his bed and i don't think he was eligible for that and there is no reason for giving him a body since he died as a normal death unlike Cell arc where he was all fit and fine and because of he was in fine shape is the reason he got his body in the first place

Super is not the original manga and should not be used in discussions on the manga. Super is a vastly different entity despite it being a follow up. It doesn't even properly connect with End of Z and there's no mention of God forms in End of Z either.

Super is canon as well as Minus so no I won't kept them seperate at all !

you can say "New Canon" since they aren't written by Toriyama and are clearly written by someone else with supervision from Toriyama but still its not his work. he can literally make Janemba, Turles, garlic jr., slug, cooler, bojack and Hirudigan Canon because fans like it. but, it's bullshit writing and adding characters who were clearly outside the main Canon in the story is stupid writing. you know Toriyama could have shown Future Z fighters retaining their body in Future Timeline of Trunks but because he didn't means they didn't retained it or for some reason were unable to help . look at DBS bonus chapter, he shows pic of Goku and Piccolo in otherworld doing nothing, how stupid can the writing get? he makes them look like assholes.

it was never implied in the original manga that Goku retained his body, in Cell arc he retained it because he died saving earth. the androids attacked after six months from Goku's death, even if he had the body he would have passed on to Next world to train more since he doesn't know what's gonna happen and either way it's not his duty. i don't see him being selfish, if he died during the time of Android attack and still ignored the earth then it would have been selfish action but no, he died way before the attack so like we saw after Cell arc, he will go to next world and train with stronger fighters and leaving earth's fate to Younger people and also him dying of natural cause won't get him revived so either way he should have no interest in living again. also it's all on the assumption that Goku gets a body which is not necessary due to time travel anomaly.

It was not needed to be implied because Goku retained his body when he got killed by Piccolo when he sacrificed himself for get down Raditz, it's a given that he would have retain his body once he got killed again by anything. I see him selfish dude we spoke about a battle crazy Saiyan, if you think he wouldn't stay put seeing his friend dealing with the Cyborg then you doesn't know Goku at all. Look at Super.

Kami was pulling the strings from behind that's why he retained the body, watch that scene again, Kami rushes towards Goku's body as soon as he dies. it's not GIVEN anywhere that Goku will always retain his body after dying, he retained it in Cell arc because he saved earth from a universal threat and didn't died from a virus on bed but like a warrior. DBS has characterized Goku in the worse way possible. clearly exaggerating his selfish and dumb side too much.

Do you think Gohan got SSJ2 because "he formed a bond with Android 16 and can't see his friend killed"? no, it was because Android 16 was like a parallel to Gohan and both were pacifist and wanted peace that's why his words reached Gohan better than anyone.
also the pacifist attitude is expected. The Cell Games are a sufficiently different scenario from anything he's encountered before. One, he's just turned Super Saiyan and is genuinely scared to see what would happen to both him and the Earth were he to go into a blind rage. Two, it isn't a life-or-death situation in which he's on his own: it's an organized death match his father has callously tossed him into; every other time Gohan has taken up a fight, there's been an immediate threat to his friends and family; what Cell represents is more intellectual. There are going to be very different emotions in play.

we can't call it continuity error or plothole based on speculation, it's easy to assume that there was no chance in the future timeline since Gohan and trunks were the only ones left and they weren't that badly outmatched by them, infact they were able to keep up with them.

Excuse me if I don't buy any of this at all, this parallele is BS for plot convenience because Toriyama had no clue at all to how to deal with Android 16 if he remained alive in the Z-Team, he got lazy. And lol Android 16 a pacifist excuse me remember his attitude towards Goku like he wanted to kill him on the post.

I side my opinion with member Lord Beerus on this whole Arc that are a total mess.

again, Toriyama could have simply let Gohan turn ssj by watching his Friends getting beaten up from Cell Jr if wanted to. how do you know that much about Toriyama not having any clue about him? he death was perfect and it served a purpose and acted as a perfect irony of the one to motivate Gohan was an android built to kill his dad. i don't even know if we are talking about the same show but Android 16 clearly isn't as Savage as other fighters, he refused to fight Vegeta and only entered the battle to defend Android 17 and showed his love towards nature and birds. he was just not comfortable with Goku talking with him like a buddy but clearly his action say otherwise.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

why would enma care for it that much ?

I'll just answer this because for the rest I strongly disagree with you, so why would enma care, well he would care like he cared during the Majin Buu saga when he send Vegeta to deal with Majin Buu, overflow of death people and all, administrative paper hassle because of this overflow.

North Kaio and Enma would help Goku & Co without question ! Period.

Question for you Ripper 30 what would have happen if 17 & 18 killed everyone on earth ? In Trunks Timeline simple answer bored they would have gone to another planet and go on another rampage ! So not Universal threat my ass.

[Ripper 30]

why would enma care for it that much ?

I'll just answer this because for the rest I strongly disagree with you, so why would enma care, well he would care like he cared during the Majin Buu saga when he send Vegeta to deal with Majin Buu, overflow of death people and all, administrative paper hassle because of this overflow.

North Kaio and Enma would help Goku & Co without question ! Period.

Question for you Ripper 30 what would have happen if 17 & 18 killed everyone on earth ? In Trunks Timeline simple answer bored they would have gone to another planet and go on another rampage ! So not Universal threat my ass.

dude, if they wanted to help why didn't they do it in earlier arcs like Piccolo Daimao arc? Enma cared in Boo Arc because he was a galaxy level threat who would jump planet to planet that's why enma was more bothered than anyone else, also it was Goku who told enma that there is a high possibility that many earth souls may come otherwise he wasn't even that much aware of earth.

also, androids cannot survive outside earth and it has never been implied and its clear that they didn't cared about wiping earth but killing people for fun or enjoying rides in amusement park or stealing shit. again, what you are saying isn't making any sense or i maybe wrong if you give me a proof that they can survive in vacume.

[ekrolo2]

the situation is different here, we don't even know whether Baba survived or not and he can do nothing against those androids. also, Androids are not universal threat, why would enma care for it that much? Future Gohan was able to keep up with them for years and i think just like Boo arc, it's not his job to do save earth after being dead.

Once again: Enma didn't give a damn about Goku coming back for a day when he just wanted to hang out with his friends and family but if Goku asks him to come back when they might need his help Enma is gonna make a fuss about it? After Future Goku did all the heroic things main Goku has done on top of killing Future Freeza & King Cold? On what fucking plane of oblivion, much less reality is this supposed to make sense?

Also, what is preventing Kaio from contacting New Namek and Goku just teleporting him around the afterlife so he can get a better connection? What's the loophole there, Kaio doesn't want to help either? Even though he helps Goku & co get to Namek purely for the reason of helping his friend out? Is future Kaio a cold bastard like Future Enma too according to bend over backwards so a shit plot can happen logic?!

exactly. in his death by Piccolo's Makankosappo, Kami was the one who rushed in otherwise if he was going to retain his body automatically after dying then, why did he even bothered?
in Cell arc he passed away in a heroic way by teleporting Cell away from earth, but in Future Timeline he died lying on his bed and i don't think he was eligible for that and there is no reason for giving him a body since he died as a normal death unlike Cell arc where he was all fit and fine and because of he was in fine shape is the reason he got his body in the first place

You have to have an advocate to keep your body but once you get this permission, it's automatic from then on. When Goku dies against Cell, he's automatically got is body back. You also don't keep your body based on how you die, you get it based on the merits of what you accomplished in your life. Goku keeps his body because he saves the world several times over, him dying in bed doesn't cancel it out.

Goku's body when he dies against Raditz had a giant ass hole in it, that got fixed. When he died against Cell, his entire body was vaporized yet it was fine afterward. Vegeta blew himself up, yet his body was perfectly fine when Enma saved it for later but so a bad storyline can happen were gonna bend over backwards and say "Oh, we Gods cannot fix your disease so enjoy spending the rest of eternity in painful chest pain misery!".

Once again, the Future Trunks timeline can only happen if you REALLY fuck everyone's characterization along with a massive amount of existing lore in the ass with a barbed wired chainsaw. In a world where everyone wasn't an indifferent moron or just ridiculously stupid, 17 and 18 would've been dead within the year, tops.

Here's what happens in the non-stupid land: most of the cast dies, Goku asks Kaio to call New Namek, New Namek gets called and agrees to fix everyone killed or broken. Either Goku or Piccolo (who fuses with Kami) drag Gohan into the restored ROSAT, spend close to a year inside and one shot 17 and 18. Dende can get teleported over to Earth to act as new Kami and when Cell shows up, he'll get annihilated too.

[Ripper 30]

the situation is different here, we don't even know whether Baba survived or not and he can do nothing against those androids. also, Androids are not universal threat, why would enma care for it that much? Future Gohan was able to keep up with them for years and i think just like Boo arc, it's not his job to do save earth after being dead.

Once again: Enma didn't give a damn about Goku coming back for a day when he just wanted to hang out with his friends and family but if Goku asks him to come back when they might need his help Enma is gonna make a fuss about it? After Future Goku did all the heroic things main Goku has done on top of killing Future Freeza & King Cold? On what fucking plane of oblivion, much less reality is this supposed to make sense?

Also, what is preventing Kaio from contacting New Namek and Goku just teleporting him around the afterlife so he can get a better connection? What's the loophole there, Kaio doesn't want to help either? Even though he helps Goku & co get to Namek purely for the reason of helping his friend out? Is future Kaio a cold bastard like Future Enma too according to bend over backwards so a shit plot can happen logic?!

See, Even if we assume he gets a body still, it all happened like 6 months before android attack and obviously before that Time Period Goku will definitely pass over to the next world to train and he will have no connection with earth and he will move on since, it's not his job to care for it (theme of Boo arc) after his death and kaio is a very lazy God so there is even less chance that he will bother to look after earth since he has many planet under him. if he really cared for earth then why didn't he bothered to tell about Piccolo Daimao, Freeza’s return or Bobbidi's plan? because he is a lazy unreliable God. also, Gohan and Trunks were able to Hold androids for years so i don't see how the situation is impossible, Gohan himself planned on sacrificing himself and wanting to let trunks win.

exactly. in his death by Piccolo's Makankosappo, Kami was the one who rushed in otherwise if he was going to retain his body automatically after dying then, why did he even bothered?
in Cell arc he passed away in a heroic way by teleporting Cell away from earth, but in Future Timeline he died lying on his bed and i don't think he was eligible for that and there is no reason for giving him a body since he died as a normal death unlike Cell arc where he was all fit and fine and because of he was in fine shape is the reason he got his body in the first place
You have to have an advocate to keep your body but once you get this permission, it's automatic from then on. When Goku dies against Cell, he's automatically got is body back. You also don't keep your body based on how you die, you get it based on the merits of what you accomplished in your life. Goku keeps his body because he saves the world several times over, him dying in bed doesn't cancel it out.

Goku's body when he dies against Raditz had a giant ass hole in it, that got fixed. When he died against Cell, his entire body was vaporized yet it was fine afterward. Vegeta blew himself up, yet his body was perfectly fine when Enma saved it for later but so a bad storyline can happen were gonna bend over backwards and say "Oh, we Gods cannot fix your disease so enjoy spending the rest of eternity in painful chest pain misery!".

Once again, the Future Trunks timeline can only happen if you REALLY fuck everyone's characterization along with a massive amount of existing lore in the ass with a barbed wired chainsaw. In a world where everyone wasn't an indifferent moron or just ridiculously stupid, 17 and 18 would've been dead within the year, tops.

Here's what happens in the non-stupid land: most of the cast dies, Goku asks Kaio to call New Namek, New Namek gets called and agrees to fix everyone killed or broken. Either Goku or Piccolo (who fuses with Kami) drag Gohan into the restored ROSAT, spend close to a year inside and one shot 17 and 18. Dende can get teleported over to Earth to act as new Kami and when Cell shows up, he'll get annihilated too.

first of all, it's all based on speculation and what if scenario. for Goku to get a body baba should be alive, you can't assume that she is alive because it was never implied in manga, all they said was "Gohan and Trunks" are the sole survivors. also, it was impossible for Kaio to communicate with Moori on New Namek, all he did was tell Goku the direction and then Goku teleported by standing in that direction and trying to concentrate hard. do you think Future Gohan who had been training for years will get a boost by entering the RoSaT? which is basically One Year worth of training?

I think that's the thing, Future Gohan doesn't really have rage triggers. Something triggered him going Super Saiyan (I'd guess the Kuririn and Piccolo being killed or something), but other than that he keeps the only family he has left, Bulma and Trunks, out of harms way. Without something significant like their deaths, he doesn't have the triggers to reach new heights like SS2 and whatnot. Yes, he's fighting to protect the Earthlings that are left and the world in general, but he isn't connected enough to them for that to fuel his rage and unleash his potential like if they were his direct friends and family. Goku can't even be wished back by any Dragon Ball since no Dragon Ball has the power to bring back a person who has died a natural death and not death by assassination. how do you think he will train Gohan just by talking from otherworld?

[ekrolo2]

See, Even if we assume he gets a body still, it all happened like 6 months before android attack and obviously before that Time Period Goku will definitely pass over to the next world to train and he will have no connection with earth and he will move on since, it's not his job to care for it (theme of Boo arc) after his death and kaio is a very lazy God so there is even less chance that he will bother to look after earth since he has many planet under him. if he really cared for earth then why didn't he bothered to tell about Piccolo Daimao, Freeza’s return or Bobbidi's plan? because he is a lazy unreliable God. also, Gohan and Trunks were able to Hold androids for years so i don't see how the situation is impossible, Gohan himself planned on sacrificing himself and wanting to let trunks win.

Goku's whole shtick in the Boo arc makes sense since he leaves someone he knows can definitively beat Majin Boo: Gotenks. In this context, Goku is training in the afterlife and then one day all of his friends come back and tell him that they were all killed, along with an SS Vegeta and that Gohan is the ONLY person left on the planet. Goku isn't going to just sit back and do nothing while Gohan is left by his loansome, especially when he hears that Vegeta as an SS bit the dust.

Which leads me to another tanget, the theme of the Boo arc? Means dick and all because Gotenks and Gohan both completely fail and its up to Goku and Vegeta, the previous generation to save it and that was under conditions where Gotenks and Gohan had WAY better odds of winning than Gohan does against 17 and 18 in the future timeline.

Kaio didn't care about his other responsibilities when he helps the main cast out getting to Namek. He isn't being lazy there or indifferent, he helps them out because he cares about Goku as a friend and student and wants to help him, they didn't even ask for his help there! So yeah, unless way make Goku and Kaio into walking, talking, literal cunts with legs and feet who don't care, they will not be indifferent about this.

first of all, it's all based on speculation and what if scenario. for Goku to get a body baba should be alive, you can't assume that she is alive because it was never implied in manga, all they said was "Gohan and Trunks" are the sole survivors. also, it was impossible for Kaio to communicate with Moori on New Namek, all he did was tell Goku the direction and then Goku teleported by standing in that direction and trying to concentrate hard. do you think Future Gohan who had been training for years will get a boost by entering the RoSaT? which is basically One Year worth of training?

I think that's the thing, Future Gohan doesn't really have rage triggers. Something triggered him going Super Saiyan (I'd guess the Kuririn and Piccolo being killed or something), but other than that he keeps the only family he has left, Bulma and Trunks, out of harms way. Without something significant like their deaths, he doesn't have the triggers to reach new heights like SS2 and whatnot. Yes, he's fighting to protect the Earthlings that are left and the world in general, but he isn't connected enough to them for that to fuel his rage and unleash his potential like if they were his direct friends and family. Goku can't even be wished back by any Dragon Ball since no Dragon Ball has the power to bring back a person who has died a natural death and not death by assassination. how do you think he will train Gohan just by talking from otherworld?

You don't need Baba to get your body in the afterlife, that happens by default after Enma gives you the okay for it. Also, Goku can teleport across the afterlife at his leisure, so if Kaio can't contact Mori from his little planet, Goku can just zap him someplace else where the reception will be better and they'll pull it off. I do think Gohan will get much better training in the ROSAT, he trains with SS Goku and an increasingly SS tier Piccolo for three years and gets precisely fucking and nothing for it. Then when he trains with Goku for less than a year, he surpasses EVERYONE but full power Perfect Cell as a Grade 4 SS.

Like I said above, Goku zaps Kaio around the afterlife until Mori answers, Porunga revives and fixes everything he can then with Piccolo and the Lookout back, he and Future Gohan clean house, especially so if Vegeta gets brought back too as extra insurance. The three of them and some ROSAT training is a recipe for an instant victory. But then again, I don't buy Gohan wouldn't flip shit over 17 and 18 killing people. He gets SS2 because 16, a person he doesn't know or have any investment in, dies right in front of him. He would get mad and power up from seeing innocent people get killed.

[Ripper 30]

See, Even if we assume he gets a body still, it all happened like 6 months before android attack and obviously before that Time Period Goku will definitely pass over to the next world to train and he will have no connection with earth and he will move on since, it's not his job to care for it (theme of Boo arc) after his death and kaio is a very lazy God so there is even less chance that he will bother to look after earth since he has many planet under him. if he really cared for earth then why didn't he bothered to tell about Piccolo Daimao, Freeza’s return or Bobbidi's plan? because he is a lazy unreliable God. also, Gohan and Trunks were able to Hold androids for years so i don't see how the situation is impossible, Gohan himself planned on sacrificing himself and wanting to let trunks win.

Goku's whole shtick in the Boo arc makes sense since he leaves someone he knows can definitively beat Majin Boo: Gotenks. In this context, Goku is training in the afterlife and then one day all of his friends come back and tell him that they were all killed, along with an SS Vegeta and that Gohan is the ONLY person left on the planet. Goku isn't going to just sit back and do nothing while Gohan is left by his loansome, especially when he hears that Vegeta as an SS bit the dust.

Which leads me to another tanget, the theme of the Boo arc? Means dick and all because Gotenks and Gohan both completely fail and its up to Goku and Vegeta, the previous generation to save it and that was under conditions where Gotenks and Gohan had WAY better odds of winning than Gohan does against 17 and 18 in the future timeline.

Kaio didn't care about his other responsibilities when he helps the main cast out getting to Namek. He isn't being lazy there or indifferent, he helps them out because he cares about Goku as a friend and student and wants to help him, they didn't even ask for his help there! So yeah, unless way make Goku and Kaio into walking, talking, literal cunts with legs and feet who don't care, they will not be indifferent about this.

why should Z warriors keep their bodies? in Saiyan Arc they were gonna get revived on Namek and were preparing to even fight on Namek if needed that's why they were allowed to keep their bodies but in future timeline why should enma care for their body? they haven't done as great seeds as Goku to let them keep the body, and specially when no one among them was a match for Androids, Enma would obviously consider them a lost cause since they have no reason to train and reviving them will result in their deaths again. which means there is no one to really ask Goku to take a look at his friends. i mean its obvious that those characters not being shown in that chapter of Trunks History means that due to some reason they were unable to help Gohan and Trunks and as i said, Gohan either way wanted to pass the torch to his student trunks.

first of all, it's all based on speculation and what if scenario. for Goku to get a body baba should be alive, you can't assume that she is alive because it was never implied in manga, all they said was "Gohan and Trunks" are the sole survivors. also, it was impossible for Kaio to communicate with Moori on New Namek, all he did was tell Goku the direction and then Goku teleported by standing in that direction and trying to concentrate hard. do you think Future Gohan who had been training for years will get a boost by entering the RoSaT? which is basically One Year worth of training?

I think that's the thing, Future Gohan doesn't really have rage triggers. Something triggered him going Super Saiyan (I'd guess the Kuririn and Piccolo being killed or something), but other than that he keeps the only family he has left, Bulma and Trunks, out of harms way. Without something significant like their deaths, he doesn't have the triggers to reach new heights like SS2 and whatnot. Yes, he's fighting to protect the Earthlings that are left and the world in general, but he isn't connected enough to them for that to fuel his rage and unleash his potential like if they were his direct friends and family. Goku can't even be wished back by any Dragon Ball since no Dragon Ball has the power to bring back a person who has died a natural death and not death by assassination. how do you think he will train Gohan just by talking from otherworld?

You don't need Baba to get your body in the afterlife, that happens by default after Enma gives you the okay for it. Also, Goku can teleport across the afterlife at his leisure, so if Kaio can't contact Mori from his little planet, Goku can just zap him someplace else where the reception will be better and they'll pull it off. I do think Gohan will get much better training in the ROSAT, he trains with SS Goku and an increasingly SS tier Piccolo for three years and gets precisely fucking and nothing for it. Then when he trains with Goku for less than a year, he surpasses EVERYONE but full power Perfect Cell as a Grade 4 SS.

Like I said above, Goku zaps Kaio around the afterlife until Mori answers, Porunga revives and fixes everything he can then with Piccolo and the Lookout back, he and Future Gohan clean house, especially so if Vegeta gets brought back too as extra insurance. The three of them and some ROSAT training is a recipe for an instant victory. But then again, I don't buy Gohan wouldn't flip shit over 17 and 18 killing people. He gets SS2 because 16, a person he doesn't know or have any investment in, dies right in front of him. He would get mad and power up from seeing innocent people get killed.[/quote]
not really, in Original Dragon Ball she was told to be the one to escort people from realm of dead to living world. why do you think in Boo Arc goku had to travel with her in spirit world ? because the journey from living world to spirit world isn't same as going anywhere, it's a lot more unpredictable and at times souls don't even reach their destiny like Kuririn soul in Freeza arc not reaching there. Goku has never been shown teleporting from living world to realm of dead.

[ekrolo2]

why should Z warriors keep their bodies? in Saiyan Arc they were gonna get revived on Namek and were preparing to even fight on Namek if needed that's why they were allowed to keep their bodies but in future timeline why should enma care for their body? they haven't done as great seeds as Goku to let them keep the body, and specially when no one among them was a match for Androids, Enma would obviously consider them a lost cause since they have no reason to train and reviving them will result in their deaths again. which means there is no one to really ask Goku to take a look at his friends. i mean its obvious that those characters not being shown in that chapter of Trunks History means that due to some reason they were unable to help Gohan and Trunks and as i said, Gohan either way wanted to pass the torch to his student trunks.

Since you're forgetting facts, let me remind you: when Goku gets blown up by Cell, he keeps his body by default because he already earned this privilege previously, so did Yamcha, Krillin, Chaozu, and Piccolo. Why would this arbitrarily NOT happen now? Especially since everything from the main timeline happens in this timeline too, meaning the Freeza arc where Enma already judged these people worthy of the honor WILL keep their bodies by default! Especially since they have added credibility to do so since they died trying to save the world again and helped save it against Cold & Freeza!

Also, they did not get their bodies to fight on Namek!. Nobody, not Goku, not Kaio, not ANYONE knew what would happen on Namek. They get their bodies back because Kami pulls some strings for them so they can pass the time training. Hell, the same scene where we see everyone on Kaio's planet is the FIRST TIME Kaio even hears about Freeza being on Namek!

I'm aware that the character's absence means they didn't help, my point isn't to refute that, it's to explain how and why I don't think it makes sense from a logical or character perspective.

not really, in Original Dragon Ball she was told to be the one to escort people from realm of dead to living world. why do you think in Boo Arc goku had to travel with her in spirit world ? because the journey from living world to spirit world isn't same as going anywhere, it's a lot more unpredictable and at times souls don't even reach their destiny like Kuririn soul in Freeza arc not reaching there. Goku has never been shown teleporting from living world to realm of dead.

Goku does teleport from the living world to the realm of the dead, both by other people and Kami. Kami takes Goku's body to Enma then teleports him back to Earth so he can fight Vegeta and Nappa. In the Cell arc, Goku teleports from the Lookout to Kaio's planet than to New Namek from there. In the Boo arc, he teleports form the Sacred World of the Kai's to Earth when he delivers the potara to kill Bootenks, then he tries to teleport himself, Vegeta, Dende, and Satan from Kid Boo's attack but can't concentrate properly. In Super, he teleports from Kaio's to train there and back again to intercept Beerus.

You know what else Goku can do? He can teleport around the afterlife, as the Boo arc shows us, he can teleport from Enma's palace to the Sacred World of Kai's. Which he can also use to say, oh I don't know, get Kaio to any place he needs to get better reception to contact Mori and prevent the entire stupidity of the Android arc from happening.

[Ripper 30]

why should Z warriors keep their bodies? in Saiyan Arc they were gonna get revived on Namek and were preparing to even fight on Namek if needed that's why they were allowed to keep their bodies but in future timeline why should enma care for their body? they haven't done as great seeds as Goku to let them keep the body, and specially when no one among them was a match for Androids, Enma would obviously consider them a lost cause since they have no reason to train and reviving them will result in their deaths again. which means there is no one to really ask Goku to take a look at his friends. i mean its obvious that those characters not being shown in that chapter of Trunks History means that due to some reason they were unable to help Gohan and Trunks and as i said, Gohan either way wanted to pass the torch to his student trunks.

Since you're forgetting facts, let me remind you: when Goku gets blown up by Cell, he keeps his body by default because he already earned this privilege previously, so did Yamcha, Krillin, Chaozu, and Piccolo. Why would this arbitrarily NOT happen now? Especially since everything from the main timeline happens in this timeline too, meaning the Freeza arc where Enma already judged these people worthy of the honor WILL keep their bodies by default! Especially since they have added credibility to do so since they died trying to save the world again and helped save it against Cold & Freeza!

Also, they did not get their bodies to fight on Namek!. Nobody, not Goku, not Kaio, not ANYONE knew what would happen on Namek. They get their bodies back because Kami pulls some strings for them so they can pass the time training. Hell, the same scene where we see everyone on Kaio's planet is the FIRST TIME Kaio even hears about Freeza being on Namek!

I'm aware that the character's absence means they didn't help, my point isn't to refute that, it's to explain how and why I don't think it makes sense from a logical or character perspective.

But these all are assumptions on our part since they are not shown which means we are made to assume that they can't receive help from otherworld. also you are forgetting that people may not always reach they correct destination, remember how Kuririn never even reached Kaio's planet in Namek Arc ? even though he is as much eligible as his friends to train with Kaio so it's not like there is a guarantee that they will always reach the correct place. also, Trunks said in in Chapter 357 when they all are carrying Goku in the ship and Yamcha is driving it, that everything in main timeline was happening differently than his own timeline. like Timing of Goku's disease, Android 16 being absent in his Timeline, androids being much stronger in present timeline as well. so again we can't assume that same things will happen in his Timeline too.

[

not really, in Original Dragon Ball she was told to be the one to escort people from realm of dead to living world. why do you think in Boo Arc goku had to travel with her in spirit world ? because the journey from living world to spirit world isn't same as going anywhere, it's a lot more unpredictable and at times souls don't even reach their destiny like Kuririn soul in Freeza arc not reaching there. Goku has never been shown teleporting from living world to realm of dead.

Goku does teleport from the living world to the realm of the dead, both by other people and Kami. Kami takes Goku's body to Enma then teleports him back to Earth so he can fight Vegeta and Nappa. In the Cell arc, Goku teleports from the Lookout to Kaio's planet than to New Namek from there. In the Boo arc, he teleports form the Sacred World of the Kai's to Earth when he delivers the potara to kill Bootenks, then he tries to teleport himself, Vegeta, Dende, and Satan from Kid Boo's attack but can't concentrate properly. In Super, he teleports from Kaio's to train there and back again to intercept Beerus.

You know what else Goku can do? He can teleport around the afterlife, as the Boo arc shows us, he can teleport from Enma's palace to the Sacred World of Kai's. Which he can also use to say, oh I don't know, get Kaio to any place he needs to get better reception to contact Mori and prevent the entire stupidity of the Android arc from happening.

i meant teleporting from living World to Spirit World without anyone's help. he did it in Saiyan Arc because of Kami and in Boo Arc, Baba escorted her till that place before he started moving. Kaio planet is bit different since it's actually a planet far away but spirit world is way different, it's the place where one can only arrive after being dead.

[ekrolo2]

But these all are assumptions on our part since they are not shown which means we are made to assume that they can't receive help from otherworld. also you are forgetting that people may not always reach they correct destination, remember how Kuririn never even reached Kaio's planet in Namek Arc ? even though he is as much eligible as his friends to train with Kaio so it's not like there is a guarantee that they will always reach the correct place. also, Trunks said in in Chapter 357 when they all are carrying Goku in the ship and Yamcha is driving it, that everything in main timeline was happening differently than his own timeline. like Timing of Goku's disease, Android 16 being absent in his Timeline, androids being much stronger in present timeline as well. so again we can't assume that same things will happen in his Timeline too.

I know we're meant to assume something keeps them from happening, the point of my various rambles is that there is no assumptions I've seen here or anywhere else that feels organic and doesn't rely on arbitrary bullshit or bad characterization to have these events happen. The Krillin situation honestly doesn't make much sense to me, Chiaotzu gets blown up too but for some reason Krillin doesn't have his body in the afterlife? Regardless, the others would keep it by default as evidenced by what happens to Goku when he dies against Cell.

The time travel explanation never works for me, this is sort of outside the point but the rules of time travel in DB are some of the stupidest one's I've ever seen. How the hell does Future Trunks killing Cold & Freeza in the middle of a wasteland, an event Doctor Gero has NO IDEA HAPPENS to cause the creation of more powerful Androids! How does that work? You could just say it's a butterlfy theory but what's the butterfly effect?! There's no tangible throughline of change that happens because of this, the Androids are just more powerful just because instead of having say Gero learn what an SS is thanks to Trunks vs Freeza. That would make sense but he doesn't, he just makes the Androids stronger because of reasons.

i meant teleporting from living World to Spirit World without anyone's help. he did it in Saiyan Arc because of Kami and in Boo Arc, Baba escorted her till that place before he started moving. Kaio planet is bit different since it's actually a planet far away but spirit world is way different, it's the place where one can only arrive after being dead.

Kaio's planet isn't different, it's in the realm of the dead, Goku's teleportation is just broken enough to transfer him over there.