How powerful is current Piccolo?

[Sonofman]

I was just curious if anyone else is thinking the same thing. Piccolo is the most powerful Namekian, but there's a lot of inconsistency in the DBS anime in terms of overall power. We clearly know that Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan were able to increase in power. But what about Piccolo? How powerful did he get? Is he unable to get any stronger? It seems to me that Piccolo hasn't gotten any stronger since the Majin arc. Let me know your thoughts below.

[DestructoDisc]

I believe he's gotten a lot stronger as base Goku barely withstood his explosive wave (Goku himself said this) and his special beam cannon was able to damage Saonel and Pirina.

I think he can easily defeat anyone from the Cell and Buu saga now, minus maybe Vegito.

[Lionel]

If Krillin is forcing Goku to transform while his wife easily contends with an opponent, Tupper, who had that same Goku down for the count then I guess must mean they're stronger than Piccolo now. I've never heard anyone suggest that the humans could have surpassed Piccolo in the same arc. Furthermore, what does that say about his Special Beam Cannon? To successfully perforate through two Namekians on the level of Saonel and Pirina -- both of whom were handling themselves well against Ultimate Gohan who had tussled with his father in blue at full power -- would mean that amplifier for the cannon is outrageously high. Going from comparability with the Base Saiyans all the way to Super Saiyan Blue seems too absurd to be real.

I'm not sure if we have a whole lot to gauge Piccolo with since most of his opponents didn't interact much the barometers for strength in Goku and Vegeta. Maybe he could have retained his standing in the "sort of general league" of the Super Saiyans" that was apparent in the Champa arc.

[Berserker1921]

Too be honest he has to be at least a ssj2 level and best case, he is near super buu level. Which makes him a threat to many people during the ToP. However is nothing to god tier.

[RandomGuy96]

I was just curious if anyone else is thinking the same thing. Piccolo is the most powerful Namekian, but there's a lot of inconsistency in the DBS anime in terms of overall power. We clearly know that Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan were able to increase in power. But what about Piccolo? How powerful did he get? Is he unable to get any stronger? It seems to me that Piccolo hasn't gotten any stronger since the Majin arc. Let me know your thoughts below.

Ignore the DBS anime. Like all Toei DB stuff, it just does whatever it wants with power levels. Paradoxically, actual battle performance is not indicative of strength in Toei's productions. Anyone can fight anyone no matter how much stronger or weaker. You can no more trust that base Goku is stronger than Super Gotenks in Super than that base Goku is stronger than Super Vegeta in Movie 8, stronger than Ultimate Gohan in Buu's head, or stronger than Blue Vegeta against Hit.

The manga is clearer with power scaling and Piccolo's not implied to be any stronger there (he's not stated to be any stronger in the anime either, for that matter). In my opinion, Shin could still kick his ass. He was "dimensions" above Piccolo in the Buu arc.

[Ssjcell]

I was just curious if anyone else is thinking the same thing. Piccolo is the most powerful Namekian, but there's a lot of inconsistency in the DBS anime in terms of overall power. We clearly know that Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan were able to increase in power. But what about Piccolo? How powerful did he get? Is he unable to get any stronger? It seems to me that Piccolo hasn't gotten any stronger since the Majin arc. Let me know your thoughts below.

Ignore the DBS anime. Like all Toei DB stuff, it just does whatever it wants with power levels. Paradoxically, actual battle performance is not indicative of strength in Toei's productions. Anyone can fight anyone no matter how much stronger or weaker. You can no more trust that base Goku is stronger than Super Gotenks in Super than that base Goku is stronger than Super Vegeta in Movie 8, stronger than Ultimate Gohan in Buu's head, or stronger than Blue Vegeta against Hit.

The manga is clearer with power scaling and Piccolo's not implied to be any stronger there (he's not stated to be any stronger in the anime either, for that matter). In my opinion, Shin could still kick his ass. He was "dimensions" above Piccolo in the Buu arc.

I hear this argument all the time to just ignore the dbs anime, while ak has said on several different occasions that the anime is to be treated like the old manga and the manga is to be treated like the old anime. Therefore the anime is Canon, just because you like the manga better doesn't make it more true or canon. It's an absurd argument that holds no water to me. Ak is making the anime while some other guy is making the manga which one seems more canon to you doesn't change the fact that what ak says is fact.

[RandomGuy96]

I was just curious if anyone else is thinking the same thing. Piccolo is the most powerful Namekian, but there's a lot of inconsistency in the DBS anime in terms of overall power. We clearly know that Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan were able to increase in power. But what about Piccolo? How powerful did he get? Is he unable to get any stronger? It seems to me that Piccolo hasn't gotten any stronger since the Majin arc. Let me know your thoughts below.

Ignore the DBS anime. Like all Toei DB stuff, it just does whatever it wants with power levels. Paradoxically, actual battle performance is not indicative of strength in Toei's productions. Anyone can fight anyone no matter how much stronger or weaker. You can no more trust that base Goku is stronger than Super Gotenks in Super than that base Goku is stronger than Super Vegeta in Movie 8, stronger than Ultimate Gohan in Buu's head, or stronger than Blue Vegeta against Hit.

The manga is clearer with power scaling and Piccolo's not implied to be any stronger there (he's not stated to be any stronger in the anime either, for that matter). In my opinion, Shin could still kick his ass. He was "dimensions" above Piccolo in the Buu arc.

I hear this argument all the time to just ignore the dbs anime, while ak has said on several different occasions that the anime is to be treated like the old manga and the manga is to be treated like the old anime. Therefore the anime is Canon, just because you like the manga better doesn't make it more true or canon. It's an absurd argument that holds no water to me. Ak is making the anime while some other guy is making the manga which one seems more canon to you doesn't change the fact that what ak says is fact.

Literally none of what you said is true. Toriyama has never stated anything about the "canon" of the versions and supervises the manga far more closely than he does the anime. He's not "making" either of them, especially not the anime. For both, he gives a broad plot outline which is then adapted.

[Ssjcell]

I disagree anime was first

[p-hyvo]

tdp piccolo is easily low god or high ssj3 tier, going from the different scalings. in dbs everyone got a fuckton of boost to return them from the competitive scene, : c18 is now ssj2 caulifla + tier , crillin is the human warrior leader and he is not that distant from base gohan, buff muten is stronger than him and suppressed c18 and tenshinhan is a bit lower than base buten on the scale. they all went past z and logic standards, and, even if its horrible to say, even dbs crillin, muten and tien are a lot superior thas ssj vegeth from z.

piccolo instead is a ss2 tier - in base form, and a god tier + in his super namekian state, like saonel and pirina, while frost is a low god tier fighter.


mui Goku rage>>jiren rage fiery aura>Goku muiinitial>jiren fiery aura>>jiren fp >Goku ui3 adapted>= bills>Goku ui3 initial>> vegeta ssbe g2 >god toppo> hit time cage>Goku blue kaioken x20 post zenkai>=Goku ui 1>= ssj2 kefla>>aniraza>>toppo red ki>c17 fp > Golden freezer >Goku blue/vegeta blue = toppo >mystic gohan fullpower > koichianator> Goku blue/vegeta blue(post kefla)>>>freezer ff 70% >mystic gohan less suppressed >obuni>god Goku= berserker kale in rampage > hit > dyspo >>sn pirina>sn saonel>suppressed mystic gohansuppressed> sn piccolo>>>ssb Goku (vs kale)> Goku ssj3>= ssj god Goku (vs kefla) >>Goku ssj >mystic gohan more suppressed >base piccolo >frost>c17 suppressed>c18 fp>kale ssj2>khasenal>cocotte > ssj2 caulifla>=ssj kale>tupper >zoyray>>base Goku/vegeta>>> base caulifla >base kyabe >niggrishi >katopesra battle mode > kohitsukai/bollarator/panchia > base gohan >>buff muten >=majora > suppressed c18 > shosa >trio de dangers > crillin>>base muten > tenshinhan>>> ganos

[PFM18]

I believe he's gotten a lot stronger as base Goku barely withstood his explosive wave (Goku himself said this) and his special beam cannon was able to damage Saonel and Pirina.

I think he can easily defeat anyone from the Cell and Buu saga now, minus maybe Vegito.

I agree with this. everyone outside of maybe Vegetto

Too be honest he has to be at least a ssj2 level and best case, he is near super buu level. Which makes him a threat to many people during the ToP. However is nothing to god tier.

Buu arc SSJ2 tiers are absolutely nothing to current fighters in the ToP. You seem to imply "SSJ2 level" during the ToP arc and the Buu arc are at similar levels of power but that is certainly not the case.

If Krillin is forcing Goku to transform while his wife easily contends with an opponent, Tupper, who had that same Goku down for the count then I guess must mean they're stronger than Piccolo now.

Tupper caught Goku off guard was the point. He grabbed Goku while Goku wasn't expecting it. This says nothing of the comparison between 18 and Base Goku. I don't see Goku going SSJ once briefly against the Kienzan which is known for it's ability to damage people massively stronger than them, as enough evidence to conclude that Krillin>Base Goku.

Furthermore, what does that say about his Special Beam Cannon? To successfully perforate through two Namekians on the level of Saonel and Pirina -- both of whom were handling themselves well against Ultimate Gohan who had tussled with his father in blue at full power

Ultimate Gohan stated that he would go full-power when he realized they were more durable than he thought. Then, he easily defeated them. So there's no real implication that Piccolo is close to Ultimate Gohan. Also, Goku briefly fought with Gohan, but Goku was able to damage Toppo where Gohan couldn't, so it certainly appears that Goku didn't use SSB at full-power or at least that the brief squabble wasn't enough for Goku to display his superiority.(It was extremely short) So Gohan isn't as strong as SSB Goku in the first place.

Going from comparability with the Base Saiyans all the way to Super Saiyan Blue seems too absurd to be real.

That's because it isn't real. The makankosoppo is very powerful but it certainly doesn't bridge that large of a gap.

Ignore the DBS anime. Like all Toei DB stuff, it just does whatever it wants with power levels. Paradoxically, actual battle performance is not indicative of strength in Toei's productions. Anyone can fight anyone no matter how much stronger or weaker. You can no more trust that base Goku is stronger than Super Gotenks in Super than that base Goku is stronger than Super Vegeta in Movie 8, stronger than Ultimate Gohan in Buu's head, or stronger than Blue Vegeta against Hit.

The manga is clearer with power scaling and Piccolo's not implied to be any stronger there (he's not stated to be any stronger in the anime either, for that matter). In my opinion, Shin could still kick his ass. He was "dimensions" above Piccolo in the Buu arc.

This is getting ridiculous. You won't even allow people to discuss DBS anime scaling without discrediting it and attempting to invalidate it. Jesus christ dude, just let people discuss what they want. Also, the manga is certainly not clearer with power scaling it has blatantly contradictory scaling statements among other issues. It isn't the anime's fault that you misinterpret it at every turn

[ekrolo2]

Going by the Super manga, not any stronger than he was in whatever his Cell Games peak was but still above Base Saiyan's.

[Green_Goblin]

Pasting my opinion from this topic:

Considering the fact Piccolo can withstand Mystic Gohan before the Tournament of Power even began - and the fact Mystic Gohan was MUCH STRONGER THAN SSJ 3 Goku of the Buu Saga - it's clear that Piccolo EVEN BEFORE CONTINUING TO TRAIN WITH GOHAN FOR THE TOP (and even before Episode 90 when they fought Goku and Tien) was MUCH MUCH MORE POWERFUL THAN Buu Saga SSJ 2 Goku and Majin Vegeta.

HECK Majin Vegeta should be at Basil's base-tier IMHO.

So where exactly do you place Piccolo at? Super Buu?

If there was a ten steps ladder betwen OG Majin Buu and Super Buu, then Piccolo before the ToP is around 7/10 over that scale in my honest opinion. As he still was talking about Super Buu as something scary even when Gohan came to train with him for the Tournament of Power. While in the ToP itself he must've improved to 9/10 Super Buu.

[PFM18]

Pasting my opinion from this topic:

So where exactly do you place Piccolo at? Super Buu?

If there was a ten steps ladder betwen OG Majin Buu and Super Buu, then Piccolo before the ToP is around 7/10 over that scale in my honest opinion. As he still was talking about Super Buu as something scary even when Gohan came to train with him for the Tournament of Power. While in the ToP itself he must've improved to 9/10 Super Buu.

That's pretty fair. I personally think he probably surpassed Super Buu after the training with Gohan and during the events of the ToP, but I think he's definitely somewhere in that ballpark.

Going by the Super manga, not any stronger than he was in whatever his Cell Games peak was but still above Base Saiyan's.

Going by the Super manga, Gohan is both stronger than Goku and weaker than Goku at the same time apparently. So I would take it with a grain of salt.

[flashback0180]

i'll rank him above SSJ2 and close to ssj3 since he could keep up with pre-TOP ultimate gohan.

[Lord Beerus]

In the Super anime, Piccolo is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan, and by virtue, many leagues above SSJ3 Gotenks (Z and Super) given that Base Goku/Vegeta/Gohan are above SSJ3 Gotenks, at least after the events of the Future Trunks arc.

In the Super manga, it's incredibly ambiguous as he barely does anything.

[PFM18]

In the Super anime, Piccolo is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan, and by virtue, many leagues above SSJ3 Gotenks (Z and Super) given that Base Goku/Vegeta/Gohan are above SSJ3 Gotenks, at least after the events of the Future Trunks arc.

In the Super manga, it's incredibly ambiguous as he barely does anything.

Why do you lump Gohan in with Goku and Vegeta? Goku/Vegeta are clearly much stronger in equivalent forms

[Lord Beerus]

In the Super anime, Piccolo is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan, and by virtue, many leagues above SSJ3 Gotenks (Z and Super) given that Base Goku/Vegeta/Gohan are above SSJ3 Gotenks, at least after the events of the Future Trunks arc.

In the Super manga, it's incredibly ambiguous as he barely does anything.

Why do you lump Gohan in with Goku and Vegeta? Goku/Vegeta are clearly much stronger in equivalent forms

In Episode 75, SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan had a (brief) sparring match, and were dead even.

[PFM18]

In the Super anime, Piccolo is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan, and by virtue, many leagues above SSJ3 Gotenks (Z and Super) given that Base Goku/Vegeta/Gohan are above SSJ3 Gotenks, at least after the events of the Future Trunks arc.

In the Super manga, it's incredibly ambiguous as he barely does anything.

Why do you lump Gohan in with Goku and Vegeta? Goku/Vegeta are clearly much stronger in equivalent forms

In Episode 75, SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan had a (brief) sparring match, and were dead even.

But Goku was obviously suppressed and he admitted as much. They fought evenly in Base and Gohan asked something like "You're holding back aren't you?" and Goku admitted it, and then they both go SSJ and they continue to fight evenly. So Goku must have continued to be holding back for them to continue fighting evenly as SSJs. And this was a brief sparring session that amounted to a gag scene with Chi Chi

And intuitively speaking it doesn't make any sense for Gohan to be at that level since he has only been casually training since RoF and Goku absorbed the SSG power and got training with Whis. Especially since in their tag team fight Base Goku tanked Piccolo fairly easily and if he had been superior to SSJ2 Gohan who was relative to a SSJ2 Goku, then Base Goku would have been nothing to Piccolo. Base Goku is outrageously strong at this point being able to fodderize SSJ3 Gotenks among several other things that indicate his insane strength, and Gohan can't even access his Ultimate power.

[SSJgogeto]

He's probably stronger than SS3 Goku. I don't know exactly the gap between Goku and Gotenks, but I like to think Piccolo can be as strong as the little fusion.

[Lord Beerus]

Why do you lump Gohan in with Goku and Vegeta? Goku/Vegeta are clearly much stronger in equivalent forms

In Episode 75, SSJ Goku and SSJ Gohan had a (brief) sparring match, and were dead even.

But Goku was obviously suppressed and he admitted as much. They fought evenly in Base and Gohan asked something like "You're holding back aren't you?" and Goku admitted it, and then they both go SSJ and they continue to fight evenly. So Goku must have continued to be holding back for them to continue fighting evenly as SSJs. And this was a brief sparring session that amounted to a gag scene with Chi Chi

And intuitively speaking it doesn't make any sense for Gohan to be at that level since he has only been casually training since RoF and Goku absorbed the SSG power and got training with Whis. Especially since in their tag team fight Base Goku tanked Piccolo fairly easily and if he had been superior to SSJ2 Gohan who was relative to a SSJ2 Goku, then Base Goku would have been nothing to Piccolo. Base Goku is outrageously strong at this point being able to fodderize SSJ3 Gotenks among several other things that indicate his insane strength, and Gohan can't even access his Ultimate power.

I wouldn't necessarily ignore the context of Goku and Gohan's sparring match under the idea of it inconsequential given it ended with a "gag" involving Chi Chi. Goku was holding back initially to test Gohan in his base form, and then powered up to SSJ, as did Gohan, and they fought more seriously. The damage they unintentionally caused to Goku's fleshly plowed farming field would indicate they were fighting much more seriously then they were in their base forms initially.

I can buy that Gohan, from off-screen training following the events of Resurrection F, at least in his base form, reached on par with Goku and Vegeta. I mean, honestely speaking, in terms of strength gains in Dragon Ball, it's always been roulette wheel. It may seem a bit of stretch for Gohan to get that in the time that he did, but it's not out of realm of possibility. Especially after the events of Resurrection F opened an almighty can of worms in regards to gains in training. Lest we forget Freeza reaching God-tier in 4 months. And that was Toriyama's idea.