How powerful is current Piccolo?

[PFM18]

It is invalid because it is outdated and only applies to the movies.

he made it his own. How the hell does that imply that Base=SSG? Goku said that he didn't notice a difference going from SSG->SSJ and if he absorbed it into his Base he would have noticed a 50x increase in power which obviously isn't the case. Yes, he surpassed it as a SSJ but that is as they kept fighting and he got stronger. Yes, SSJ after absorption>SSG, but this doesn't imply a 50x multiplier whatsoever, otherwise according to the movie verse and based on the interview being referenced, he would have surpassed Beerus which obviously isn't the case.

SSJ(post-ritual)>SSG>Base(post-ritual) is the obvious implication here.

He couldn't/wouldn't transform into a SSG based on what Toriyama said. This obviously isn't the case in Super because he only absorbed the power and not the form and was able to transform into the form later.

I never said he absorbed the transformations in his base, he absorbed the power, reading comprehension. It's supplementiary material so it should be considered, coming from Toriyama's own explanation on how Goku achieved this power.

It doesn't contradict the series, since in the series itself, it referenced that they needed to absorb the power of SSG into their base.

"God like power without changing form" SSG power=Base, meaning SS Goku post absorbtion= 50xSSG power and this is carried out through in super so it doesn't contradict Beerus power

No it literally said he made it his own Base=SSG

What the hell am I supposed to think you meant by this if not referencing power?

In the series itself it is never referenced that they needed to absorb SSG into their Base. The bolded is just factually incorrect. No idea where you are getting this from. And no, an interview 5 years ago done when Super wasn't even in consideration, that contradicts the anime series should not be considered.

You are referencing promotional material for the movie when "Saiyan Beyond God" existed. Saiyan Beyond God is no longer a thing. And movie promotional material doesn't apply to anything other than the movie that it is promoting. "This God like power without transforming" isn't the case in DBS because Goku is able to be sensed in Base when that clearly is referencing God Ki. This premise of a Base form with God Ki only existed in the movies and was scrapped for DBS clearly.

[p-hyvo]

Tdp piccolo Is a low god tier

[CTAkuma]

What the hell am I supposed to think you meant by this if not referencing power?

In the series itself it is never referenced that they needed to absorb SSG into their Base. The bolded is just factually incorrect. No idea where you are getting this from. And no, an interview 5 years ago done when Super wasn't even in consideration, that contradicts the anime series should not be considered.

You are referencing promotional material for the movie when "Saiyan Beyond God" existed. Saiyan Beyond God is no longer a thing. And movie promotional material doesn't apply to anything other than the movie that it is promoting. "This God like power without transforming" isn't the case in DBS because Goku is able to be sensed in Base when that clearly is referencing God Ki. This premise of a Base form with God Ki only existed in the movies and was scrapped for DBS clearly.

Reading comprehension, he doesn't have God Ki in base, he has the power of SSG in base that's what it said multiple times. And no it wasn't contradicted in the series, using God Ki to amplify his Super Saiyan form is the explanation on how he achieved SSGSS. So if he had God Ki already in base he couldn't transform into a normal super saiyan. Also Base Black oneshotting SS Trunks who is way more powerful than the Buu saga counterparts is another point of evidence that Goku had absorbed the power of SSG into his base

Again this idea that all of this is scrapped is headcanon, you have to show me some sources or scans that this is no longer the explanation on how the absorbtion of SSG power works. Goku absorbed the level of power of SSG into his base, Toriyama said this a couple of times as an explanation

[PFM18]

he doesn't have God Ki in base, he has the power of SSG in base that's what it said multiple times

It literally says "has god like power without changing form." The phrasing "god-like power" is obviously referring to God Ki. I don't know how that could possibly be referring to anything else.

using God Ki to amplify his Super Saiyan form is the explanation on how he achieved SSGSS. So if he had God Ki already in base he couldn't transform into a normal super saiyan.

Exactly. He was using God Ki in his Base and that is how it is described in the promotional material. "can use god-like power without changing form" is what was attained through the training with Whis. That was the whole point of those pages in the promotional material, is that now they can use God Ki without transforming, and that is how the official name "Saiyan Beyond God" came about. What the hell would be the point of their base forms being shown, this new functionality to their base form being described, and a new official name being coined for it would be if they were still using normal ki? That makes absolutely no sense.

And the Saiyan Beyond God form invalidated normal Super Saiyan. They now have a base form with God Ki, and so the normal Super Saiyan forms could not be used and would not be used. You are right, they wouldn't be able to transform into Super Saiyan and they didn't in the movie. The fact that they could be sensed in their Base and they transformed into a normal SSJ should have made it obvious that they did away with this concept that was established in the movie.

Again this idea that all of this is scrapped is headcanon, you have to show me some sources or scans that this is no longer the explanation on how the absorbtion of SSG power works. Goku absorbed the level of power of SSG into his base, Toriyama said this a couple of times as an explanation

Again, "absorbed SSG into base" was a phrasing that was never used. You're making this up.

[CTAkuma]

Again, "absorbed SSG into base" was a phrasing that was never used. You're making this up.

READING COMPREHENSION, he absorbed the POWER of SSG into his base, not the transformation or the GOD KI. He doesn't have god ki in base, he can however amplify his super saiyan form with God ki to create SSGSS. Jesus how often do i need to say this, also it has been already stated that he "absorbed" the power which is a statement directly made by Toriyama, God like Saiyan is literally described as a saiyan who can use the power of SSG without changing form, i.e base

[PFM18]

READING COMPREHENSION, he absorbed the POWER of SSG into his base, not the transformation or the GOD KI.

Yeah that phrasing wasn't used either. You're just correcting semantics and it is getting ridiculous. "absorbed into base" or any slight variation was never used but that is kind of irrelevant.

I never said that he absorbed the God Ki of the SSG transformation that obviously wasn't the case during BoG. READING COMPREHENSION.

They learned to use God Ki in Base by training with whis, the God Ki being referenced is the "God-like power without changing form." That obviously refers to God Ki.

Jesus how often do i need to say this, also it has been already stated that he "absorbed" the power which is a statement directly made by Toriyama, God like Saiyan is literally described as a saiyan who can use the power of SSG without changing form, i.e base

You don't "have to say this" X number of times because you are simply wrong. This "God like Saiyan" is very clearly referring to a Saiyan using God Ki in Base, a premise that doesn't exist during DBS. This "absorbed the power" was referring to BoG where he strictly absorbed the power into his SSJ form in which SSJ=SSG.

Like I said and you ignored, "Saiyan Beyond God" refers to a base form with God Ki, if it didn't have God Ki, there would be no point in literally having a new name for the form.

[CTAkuma]

They learned to use God Ki in Base by training with whis, the God Ki being referenced is the "God-like power without changing form." That obviously refers to God Ki.
You don't "have to say this" X number of times because you are simply wrong. This "God like Saiyan" is very clearly referring to a Saiyan using God Ki in Base, a premise that doesn't exist during DBS. This "absorbed the power" was referring to BoG where he strictly absorbed the power into his SSJ form in which SSJ=SSG.

Like I said and you ignored, "Saiyan Beyond God" refers to a base form with God Ki, if it didn't have God Ki, there would be no point in literally having a new name for the form.

Total headcanon, they carried that into super


Again they can sense his energy meaning he has no God ki, meaning your entire arguments falls apart

[PFM18]

They learned to use God Ki in Base by training with whis, the God Ki being referenced is the "God-like power without changing form." That obviously refers to God Ki.
You don't "have to say this" X number of times because you are simply wrong. This "God like Saiyan" is very clearly referring to a Saiyan using God Ki in Base, a premise that doesn't exist during DBS. This "absorbed the power" was referring to BoG where he strictly absorbed the power into his SSJ form in which SSJ=SSG.

Like I said and you ignored, "Saiyan Beyond God" refers to a base form with God Ki, if it didn't have God Ki, there would be no point in literally having a new name for the form.

Total headcanon, they carried that into super


Again they can sense his energy meaning he has no God ki, meaning your entire arguments falls apart

Yeah none of that contradicts what I said whatsoever. You seem to be "addressing" something that I didn't even say. I think you should practice what you preach and work on your reading comprehension. My argument doesn't fall apart I literally said that as a part of my answer. The fact that they can sense him shows that he doesn't have God Ki and is a core part of my argument, not something that makes my argument fall apart.

[CTAkuma]

They learned to use God Ki in Base by training with whis, the God Ki being referenced is the "God-like power without changing form." That obviously refers to God Ki.
You don't "have to say this" X number of times because you are simply wrong. This "God like Saiyan" is very clearly referring to a Saiyan using God Ki in Base, a premise that doesn't exist during DBS. This "absorbed the power" was referring to BoG where he strictly absorbed the power into his SSJ form in which SSJ=SSG.

Like I said and you ignored, "Saiyan Beyond God" refers to a base form with God Ki, if it didn't have God Ki, there would be no point in literally having a new name for the form.

Total headcanon, they carried that into super


Again they can sense his energy meaning he has no God ki, meaning your entire arguments falls apart

Yeah none of that contradicts what I said whatsoever. You seem to be "addressing" something that I didn't even say. I think you should practice what you preach and work on your reading comprehension.

No it adresses the fact that you think Saiyan beyond god has god ki, which i disproved, you thought Goku didn't "absorb" the power of SSG into his base which again i disproved. Yet you have to show me some scans that refute the evidence that Goku absorbed the power into his base, which you still haven't done

[PFM18]

Total headcanon, they carried that into super


Again they can sense his energy meaning he has no God ki, meaning your entire arguments falls apart

Yeah none of that contradicts what I said whatsoever. You seem to be "addressing" something that I didn't even say. I think you should practice what you preach and work on your reading comprehension.

No it adresses the fact that you think Saiyan beyond god has god ki, which i disproved, you thought Goku didn't "absorb" the power of SSG into his base which again i disproved. Yet you have to show me some scans that refute the evidence that Goku absorbed the power into his base, which you still haven't done

Obviously this absorption scene with Beerus still happened. Goku made the power his own. I never said he didn't. I have no idea what you are even trying to refute because what you are stating doesn't refute anything I said. Goku still absorbed the power, and as was stated, Goku's SSJ was the same power and eventually higher than SSG. But this has nothing to do with the Saiyan Beyond God form and the RoF movie. The "god-like power" being referenced in the promotional material for the movie, is referring to God Ki, and that is not the case in Super because people can sense Goku. Again, having God Ki in Base is the purpose of the new official name of their Base: ""Saiyan Beyond God."

You didn't disprove absorbing the power into base. You literally just showed the scene which disproves what you are saying. He absorbed it in such a way that his SSJ=SSG. If anything, he absorbed it into his SSJ form not his base. Again, those scans don't disprove anything I said so I have no idea why you showed them

Saiyan Beyond God does have God Ki. The scene you are showing is in Super, where Saiyan Beyond God does not exist. Hence, why Goku can be sensed. In the movie continuity, their Base does have God Ki and that is what the phrasing "god-like power" refers to. Obviously. That is why the name "Saiyan Beyond God" even exists. Because they have God Ki in Base. If they didn't, then having a name for the form would make absolutely no sense.

I have been referencing the scene you showed with Gohan this entire time, it doesn't refute anything. You need to make sure you read before you respond.

[CTAkuma]

Yeah none of that contradicts what I said whatsoever. You seem to be "addressing" something that I didn't even say. I think you should practice what you preach and work on your reading comprehension.

No it adresses the fact that you think Saiyan beyond god has god ki, which i disproved, you thought Goku didn't "absorb" the power of SSG into his base which again i disproved. Yet you have to show me some scans that refute the evidence that Goku absorbed the power into his base, which you still haven't done

Obviously this absorption scene with Beerus still happened. Goku made the power his own. I never said he didn't. I have no idea what you are even trying to refute because what you are stating doesn't refute anything I said. Goku still absorbed the power, and as was stated, Goku's SSJ was the same power and eventually higher than SSG. But this has nothing to do with the Saiyan Beyond God form and the RoF movie. The "god-like power" being referenced in the promotional material for the movie, is referring to God Ki, and that is not the case in Super because people can sense Goku. Again, having God Ki in Base is the purpose of the new official name of their Base: ""Saiyan Beyond God."

Saiyan Beyond God does have God Ki. The scene you are showing is in Super, where Saiyan Beyond God does not exist. Hence, why Goku can be sensed. In the movie continuity, their Base does have God Ki and that is what the phrasing "god-like power" refers to. Obviously. That is why the name "Saiyan Beyond God" even exists. Because they have God Ki in Base. If they didn't, then having a name for the form would make absolutely no sense.

I have been referencing the scene you showed with Gohan this entire time, it doesn't refute anything. You need to make sure you read before you respond.

God like saiyan is their base and the fact that Gohan in ROF arc and others in BoG arc are able to sense his energy, God like saiyan is literally their base not a different transformation and this is through the Super canon. Not sure what you are trying to prove when i have shown several statements proving my point both in Super and the movies

[PFM18]

No it adresses the fact that you think Saiyan beyond god has god ki, which i disproved, you thought Goku didn't "absorb" the power of SSG into his base which again i disproved. Yet you have to show me some scans that refute the evidence that Goku absorbed the power into his base, which you still haven't done

Obviously this absorption scene with Beerus still happened. Goku made the power his own. I never said he didn't. I have no idea what you are even trying to refute because what you are stating doesn't refute anything I said. Goku still absorbed the power, and as was stated, Goku's SSJ was the same power and eventually higher than SSG. But this has nothing to do with the Saiyan Beyond God form and the RoF movie. The "god-like power" being referenced in the promotional material for the movie, is referring to God Ki, and that is not the case in Super because people can sense Goku. Again, having God Ki in Base is the purpose of the new official name of their Base: ""Saiyan Beyond God."

Saiyan Beyond God does have God Ki. The scene you are showing is in Super, where Saiyan Beyond God does not exist. Hence, why Goku can be sensed. In the movie continuity, their Base does have God Ki and that is what the phrasing "god-like power" refers to. Obviously. That is why the name "Saiyan Beyond God" even exists. Because they have God Ki in Base. If they didn't, then having a name for the form would make absolutely no sense.

I have been referencing the scene you showed with Gohan this entire time, it doesn't refute anything. You need to make sure you read before you respond.

God like saiyan is their base and the fact that Gohan in ROF arc and others in BoG arc are able to sense his energy, God like saiyan is literally their base not a different transformation and this is through the Super canon. Not sure what you are trying to prove when i have shown several statements proving my point both in Super and the movies

......Yes. I know that people can sense their energy in Base. That is literally my point. No idea why you seem to think this disproves my position. The fact that Goku can be sensed in RoF proves my point not disprove it. Because clearly, the promotional material says that they have God ki in Base. Again, read before you respond.

Notice how that scene doesn't exist in the movie? If there was nothing different about their Base, and they were just really strong, the name of a new form "Saiyan Beyond God" would be unnecessary. The name exists because they have God Ki in Base hence why the promotional material calls it "god like power" and nobody senses them in the movie. The fact that they can be sensed proves that Saiyan Beyond God no longer exists in Dragon Ball Super. I don't know why I bother responding when you don't read my posts

[CTAkuma]

Obviously this absorption scene with Beerus still happened. Goku made the power his own. I never said he didn't. I have no idea what you are even trying to refute because what you are stating doesn't refute anything I said. Goku still absorbed the power, and as was stated, Goku's SSJ was the same power and eventually higher than SSG. But this has nothing to do with the Saiyan Beyond God form and the RoF movie. The "god-like power" being referenced in the promotional material for the movie, is referring to God Ki, and that is not the case in Super because people can sense Goku. Again, having God Ki in Base is the purpose of the new official name of their Base: ""Saiyan Beyond God."

Saiyan Beyond God does have God Ki. The scene you are showing is in Super, where Saiyan Beyond God does not exist. Hence, why Goku can be sensed. In the movie continuity, their Base does have God Ki and that is what the phrasing "god-like power" refers to. Obviously. That is why the name "Saiyan Beyond God" even exists. Because they have God Ki in Base. If they didn't, then having a name for the form would make absolutely no sense.

I have been referencing the scene you showed with Gohan this entire time, it doesn't refute anything. You need to make sure you read before you respond.

God like saiyan is their base and the fact that Gohan in ROF arc and others in BoG arc are able to sense his energy, God like saiyan is literally their base not a different transformation and this is through the Super canon. Not sure what you are trying to prove when i have shown several statements proving my point both in Super and the movies

......Yes. I know that people can sense their energy in Base. That is literally my point. No idea why you seem to think this disproves my position. The fact that Goku can be sensed in RoF proves my point not disprove it. Because clearly, the promotional material says that they have God ki in Base. Again, read before you respond.

Notice how that scene doesn't exist in the movie? If there was nothing different about their Base, and they were just really strong, the name of a new form "Saiyan Beyond God" would be unnecessary. The name exists because they have God Ki in Base hence why the promotional material calls it "god like power" and nobody senses them in the movie. The fact that they can be sensed proves that Saiyan Beyond God no longer exists in Dragon Ball Super. I don't know why I bother responding when you don't read my posts

They don't have god Ki in base, yet also have the power of SSG in base that was my entire point. Copy Vegeta oneshotting SS3 Gotenks in base and Goku Black oneshotting SS Trunks in base should be enough evidence, again Saiyan beyond god doesn't have god ki

[PFM18]

God like saiyan is their base and the fact that Gohan in ROF arc and others in BoG arc are able to sense his energy, God like saiyan is literally their base not a different transformation and this is through the Super canon. Not sure what you are trying to prove when i have shown several statements proving my point both in Super and the movies

......Yes. I know that people can sense their energy in Base. That is literally my point. No idea why you seem to think this disproves my position. The fact that Goku can be sensed in RoF proves my point not disprove it. Because clearly, the promotional material says that they have God ki in Base. Again, read before you respond.

Notice how that scene doesn't exist in the movie? If there was nothing different about their Base, and they were just really strong, the name of a new form "Saiyan Beyond God" would be unnecessary. The name exists because they have God Ki in Base hence why the promotional material calls it "god like power" and nobody senses them in the movie. The fact that they can be sensed proves that Saiyan Beyond God no longer exists in Dragon Ball Super. I don't know why I bother responding when you don't read my posts

They don't have god Ki in base, yet also have the power of SSG in base that was my entire point. Copy Vegeta oneshotting SS3 Gotenks in base and Goku Black oneshotting SS Trunks in base should be enough evidence, again Saiyan beyond god doesn't have god ki

Yeah Goku absorbed the power of SSG, in such a way that his SSJ was equal to, and then surpassed SSG. The only evidence that it was "absorbed into Base" or that their Base is stronger than SSG comes from the promotional material for the movie not for DBS. In the movie continuity they had God Ki in Base and were stronger than SSG. This didn't even make sense in the first place though because Goku was supposed to be a 6 to Beerus's 10 and now his Base should be a 6 so SSB would constitute less than a 2x boost to still be weaker than Beerus.

If you want to disprove that Saiyan Beyond God has God Ki you'll have to find a scene in the movie where Base Goku's ki is sensed. Spoiler: it doesn't' exist. The "god-like power" is clearly God Ki.

Yes, obviously their Base is super strong if their SSJ is stronger than SSG. So it makes sense that SSJ3 Gotenks would be one shot. Never denied this. Any time after BoG, their SSJ form is considerably stronger than BoG SSG and so naturally they are extremely strong in Base.

[CTAkuma]

If you want to disprove that Saiyan Beyond God has God Ki you'll have to find a scene in the movie where Base Goku's ki is sensed. Spoiler: it doesn't' exist. The "god-like power" is clearly God Ki.

You seem to imply it doesn't exist anymore in the Super continuity which there is evidence of Saiyan beyond god not having God ki, since some scenes and Goku powering up were almost translated 1:1 into the series and again its not a form its just their base power being equal to that of SSG. There is no way only their SS form is equal in power to SSG or else Gotenks SS3 etc. wouldn't have been oneshotted since Copy Vegeta/Black are 50x weaker than SSG in base by that logic.

[PFM18]

If you want to disprove that Saiyan Beyond God has God Ki you'll have to find a scene in the movie where Base Goku's ki is sensed. Spoiler: it doesn't' exist. The "god-like power" is clearly God Ki.

You seem to imply it doesn't exist anymore in the Super continuity which there is evidence of Saiyan beyond god not having God ki, since some scenes and Goku powering up were almost translated 1:1 into the series and again its not a form its just their base power being equal to that of SSG. There is no way only their SS form is equal in power to SSG or else Gotenks SS3 etc. wouldn't have been oneshotted since Copy Vegeta/Black are 50x weaker than SSG in base by that logic.

There's no evidence of Saiyan Beyond God of not having God ki. The fact that Goku is sensed in Base shows this is no longer the case in Super. You show me evidence in the movie of people sensing Base Goku AKA Saiyan Beyond GOd and that would prove it doesn't have God Ki, and I will change my tune. But as of now, there's no reason to believe Saiyan Beyond God exists in DBS. especially since SSJ/2 still are used. Saiyan Beyond God invalidated the normal SSJ transformations. In the movie continuity, there was Saiyan Beyond God, which is a godly Base, and then SSB which is a godly SSJ. The fact that the golden SSJ transformations returned should tell you that this premise of SBG was retconned.

Goku's SSJ was equal to SSG right when SSG dissipated But Goku has gotten significantly stronger since then so his SSJ is massively stronger than SSG, whether it be from Whis's training or the power gains he had in the ROSAT.

No, Goku being able to one shot SSJ3 Gotenks is not even remotely indicative of SSG=Base. Do you have to be as strong as SSG to one shot Gotenks? really?

[CTAkuma]

If you want to disprove that Saiyan Beyond God has God Ki you'll have to find a scene in the movie where Base Goku's ki is sensed. Spoiler: it doesn't' exist. The "god-like power" is clearly God Ki.

You seem to imply it doesn't exist anymore in the Super continuity which there is evidence of Saiyan beyond god not having God ki, since some scenes and Goku powering up were almost translated 1:1 into the series and again its not a form its just their base power being equal to that of SSG. There is no way only their SS form is equal in power to SSG or else Gotenks SS3 etc. wouldn't have been oneshotted since Copy Vegeta/Black are 50x weaker than SSG in base by that logic.

There's no evidence of Saiyan Beyond God of not having God ki. The fact that Goku is sensed in Base shows this is no longer the case in Super. You show me evidence in the movie of people sensing Base Goku AKA Saiyan Beyond GOd and that would prove it doesn't have God Ki, and I will change my tune. But as of now, there's no reason to believe Saiyan Beyond God exists in DBS. especially since SSJ/2 still are used. Saiyan Beyond God invalidated the normal SSJ transformations. In the movie continuity, there was Saiyan Beyond God, which is a godly Base, and then SSB which is a godly SSJ. The fact that the golden SSJ transformations returned should tell you that this premise of SBG was retconned.

Goku's SSJ was equal to SSG right when SSG dissipated But Goku has gotten significantly stronger since then so his SSJ is massively stronger than SSG, whether it be from Whis's training or the power gains he had in the ROSAT.

No, Goku being able to one shot SSJ3 Gotenks is not even remotely indicative of SSG=Base. Do you have to be as strong as SSG to one shot Gotenks? really?

I showed you evidence in the series itself and we both agree that he has the power of SSG absorbed, people sensed Goku's energy while he was fighting Beerus and Frieza in Super. I used the movie statement to explain how the power in base works i.e Saiyan beyond god, which can't be disproven to exist in the Super series. It has no God Ki or else Gohan, Krillin couldn't sense him in ROF arc, or Piccolo being able to sense him in BoG arc. Even if you think SBG doesn't exist in super, the power in their base has to be equal to SSG or else the entire Goku Black arc would make no sense through scaling

[PFM18]

You seem to imply it doesn't exist anymore in the Super continuity which there is evidence of Saiyan beyond god not having God ki, since some scenes and Goku powering up were almost translated 1:1 into the series and again its not a form its just their base power being equal to that of SSG. There is no way only their SS form is equal in power to SSG or else Gotenks SS3 etc. wouldn't have been oneshotted since Copy Vegeta/Black are 50x weaker than SSG in base by that logic.

There's no evidence of Saiyan Beyond God of not having God ki. The fact that Goku is sensed in Base shows this is no longer the case in Super. You show me evidence in the movie of people sensing Base Goku AKA Saiyan Beyond GOd and that would prove it doesn't have God Ki, and I will change my tune. But as of now, there's no reason to believe Saiyan Beyond God exists in DBS. especially since SSJ/2 still are used. Saiyan Beyond God invalidated the normal SSJ transformations. In the movie continuity, there was Saiyan Beyond God, which is a godly Base, and then SSB which is a godly SSJ. The fact that the golden SSJ transformations returned should tell you that this premise of SBG was retconned.

Goku's SSJ was equal to SSG right when SSG dissipated But Goku has gotten significantly stronger since then so his SSJ is massively stronger than SSG, whether it be from Whis's training or the power gains he had in the ROSAT.

No, Goku being able to one shot SSJ3 Gotenks is not even remotely indicative of SSG=Base. Do you have to be as strong as SSG to one shot Gotenks? really?

I showed you evidence in the series itself and we both agree that he has the power of SSG absorbed, people sensed Goku's energy while he was fighting Beerus and Frieza in Super. I used the movie statement to explain how the power in base works i.e Saiyan beyond god, which can't be disproven to exist in the Super series. It has no God Ki or else Gohan, Krillin couldn't sense him in ROF arc, or Piccolo being able to sense him in BoG arc. Even if you think SBG doesn't exist in super, the power in their base has to be equal to SSG or else the entire Goku Black arc would make no sense through scaling

You showed me evidence that Goku and Vegeta's base doesn't have God Ki which only reinforces my point, not disproves it. The fact that Gohan was able to sense him in RoF shows that Saiyan Beyond God was retconned, the fact that the normal golden SSJ transformations came back shows that it was retconned, and the fact that there's no statement that SSG>Base in DBS also shows that it was retconned. No reason to think it exists in Super.

If their Base is equal to SSG, then SSJ Future Trunks would be 50+ times stronger than SSG would he not? Since he is as strong as Goku in equivalent forms. So if Black's Base was equal to SSG then Trunks would one shot him.

current SSJ Goku>BoG SSG Goku>current Base Goku

unless you think Goku got 50x stronger since then, it which case this would change and his base would have surpassed SSG.

[CTAkuma]

You showed me evidence that Goku and Vegeta's base doesn't have God Ki which only reinforces my point, not disproves it. The fact that Gohan was able to sense him in RoF shows that Saiyan Beyond God was retconned, the fact that the normal golden SSJ transformations came back shows that it was retconned, and the fact that there's no statement that SSG>Base in DBS also shows that it was retconned. No reason to think it exists in Super.

If their Base is equal to SSG, then SSJ Future Trunks would be 50+ times stronger than SSG would he not? Since he is as strong as Goku in equivalent forms. So if Black's Base was equal to SSG then Trunks would one shot him.

current SSJ Goku>BoG SSG Goku>current Base Goku

unless you think Goku got 50x stronger since then, it which case this would change and his base would have surpassed SSG.

No because it was never stated saiyan beyond god had God Ki, meaning only that part about it has been retconned like Beerus 60% in BOG, it still exists in the same fassion as it did in the movie just without God Ki, there is no way to disprove its existance in the Super continuity.

Also Base Black handled SS Trunks, he one shotted Trunks, so badly that he had to time travel.

[PFM18]

You showed me evidence that Goku and Vegeta's base doesn't have God Ki which only reinforces my point, not disproves it. The fact that Gohan was able to sense him in RoF shows that Saiyan Beyond God was retconned, the fact that the normal golden SSJ transformations came back shows that it was retconned, and the fact that there's no statement that SSG>Base in DBS also shows that it was retconned. No reason to think it exists in Super.

If their Base is equal to SSG, then SSJ Future Trunks would be 50+ times stronger than SSG would he not? Since he is as strong as Goku in equivalent forms. So if Black's Base was equal to SSG then Trunks would one shot him.

current SSJ Goku>BoG SSG Goku>current Base Goku

unless you think Goku got 50x stronger since then, it which case this would change and his base would have surpassed SSG.

No because it was never stated saiyan beyond god had God Ki, meaning only that part about it has been retconned like Beerus 60% in BOG, it still exists in the same fassion as it did in the movie just without God Ki, there is no way to disprove its existance in the Super continuity.

Also Base Black handled SS Trunks, he one shotted Trunks, so badly that he had to time travel.

It was stated that it had "God-like power" which obviously refers to God Ki. Then, Goku was not sensed in Base in the movie. The fact that his Base has God Ki is the entire point of the term "Saiyan Beyond God" existing. If it was just a really strong Base, there would be no point in having a name for it, because the mechanics would be the same. When Goku came out of the ROSAT and his Base was really strong did they come up with a new name for his Base? No. The fact that it wasn't sensed in the RoF movie shows this. If you can find where Goku was sensed during RoF, then that would disprove my point. But that isn't going to happen.

That's literally my point. If Black's base was equal to SSG, and Trunks was on par with Goku who's Base is equal to SSG, then how could Black win? This doesn't make any sense.