Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

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Ssjcell
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Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by Ssjcell » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:38 pm

I don't know if they fought Android 19 and 20 in the future or if they fought just 17 and 18. I would guess they fought them and the same time happened without 16 being activated...

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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by theherodjl » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Ssjcell wrote:I don't know if they fought Android 19 and 20 in the future or if they fought just 17 and 18. I would guess they fought them and the same time happened without 16 being activated...
Future Trunks confirmed that he had never seen or heard of the eventual Androids 19 & 20 before, and in filler scenes we see that Gero died not long after activating 17 & 18 in two other timelines so its likely that the z Senshi never encountered 19 & 20 in Trunks/Cell's timelines.
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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by KBABZ » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:23 pm

Ssjcell wrote:I don't know if they fought Android 19 and 20 in the future or if they fought just 17 and 18. I would guess they fought them and the same time happened without 16 being activated...
In my opinion I think they did. First and most importantly, Trunks was an infant at the time so he did not witness these events directly. Secondly, almost all of the people who could have seen 19 and 20 were dead, with the exception of Gohan. My theory is that the Z Fighters initially take on 19 and 20, but Dr. Gero is forced into a corner like we see in the meddled timeline and retreats to activate 17 and 18. Without Trunks as a backup, they quickly annihilate all of them, and somewhere along the way Gohan never sees or learns about 19 and 20.

It's important to remember that while Trunks did personally kill Frieza and give the Z Fighters information about the Androids in advance, the timeline doesn't truly start diverging until the attack on the island and the Z Fighters reveal their pre-existing knowledge of the Androids and then Trunks shows up, which directly influence the outcome of these events.

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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by Ssjcell » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:42 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Ssjcell wrote:I don't know if they fought Android 19 and 20 in the future or if they fought just 17 and 18. I would guess they fought them and the same time happened without 16 being activated...
Future Trunks confirmed that he had never seen or heard of the eventual Androids 19 & 20 before, and in filler scenes we see that Gero died not long after activating 17 & 18 in two other timelines so its likely that the z Senshi never encountered 19 & 20 in Trunks/Cell's timelines.
I'm not completely satisfied by that I mean trunks was what 10 months old when Android 17 and 18 were activated and gero died similarly to how he died in the anime/manga if we go by the trunks special. It was 17 years ago for trunks and there were no people to tell him about 19 and 20 who were there at the time of the battle . Vegeta was probably strong enough to kill 19 and force 20 to retreat in a fashion similar to what happened in the anime / manga. Gero was shown to be an andriod in the trunks special. The only person left who could tell him about 19 and 20 was Gohan who likely wasn't at the battle since he survived. It's possible bulma was never told what happened since bulma wasnt with Vegeta at the time as stated by trunks. It's entirely possible that they fought 19 and 20 escaped. The same island at the same time was attacked by the "andriods" the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming imo

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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by KBABZ » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:48 pm

Ssjcell wrote:I'm not completely satisfied by that I mean trunks was what 10 months old when Android 17 and 18 were activated and gero died similarly to how he died in the anime/manga if we go by the trunks special. It was 17 years ago for trunks and there were no people to tell him about 19 and 20 who were there at the time of the battle . Vegeta was probably strong enough to kill 19 and force 20 to retreat in a fashion similar to what happened in the anime / manga. Gero was shown to be an andriod in the trunks special. The only person left who could tell him about 19 and 20 was Gohan who likely wasn't at the battle since he survived. It's possible bulma was never told what happened since bulma wasnt with Vegeta at the time as stated by trunks. It's entirely possible that they fought 19 and 20 escaped. The same island at the same time was attacked by the "andriods" the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming imo
I subscribe to this theory as well. Because the original attack was a complete surprise, it means that nobody would have been at the island outside of chance. Given Gohan's studying, it's entirely possible that he wasn't even aware of the attacks until Goku set out and said he'd take care of it so Gohan should stay home.

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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by sintzu » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:12 am

I think everything played out the same until Shenron told everyone Goku wasn't coming back. A year later everyone would've met to fight Freeza or cold but in that timeline Goku used instant transmission to get back and take them out. Everyone would go back to their normal lives for the next 3 years but would start hearing about this island getting destroyed and go investigate only to find Gero and 19. Goku fights 19 only to start losing due to his heart acting up but then Vegeta saves him and informs them that Bulma told him what everyone was up to and thought it would be a good way to test his new power. He powers up to Ssj and beats 19 like what we saw but they lose track of Gero and decide to leave things at that. Weeks or months later Goku dies and 17 and 18 kill everyone except Gohan.
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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:17 pm

Ssjcell wrote:I'm not completely satisfied by that I mean trunks was what 10 months old when Android 17 and 18 were activated and gero died similarly to how he died in the anime/manga if we go by the trunks special. It was 17 years ago for trunks and there were no people to tell him about 19 and 20 who were there at the time of the battle . Vegeta was probably strong enough to kill 19 and force 20 to retreat in a fashion similar to what happened in the anime / manga. Gero was shown to be an andriod in the trunks special. The only person left who could tell him about 19 and 20 was Gohan who likely wasn't at the battle since he survived. It's possible bulma was never told what happened since bulma wasnt with Vegeta at the time as stated by trunks. It's entirely possible that they fought 19 and 20 escaped. The same island at the same time was attacked by the "andriods" the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming imo
I had forgotten about the bonus chapter from DBS regarding Trunks' future, and in it, Androids 19 & 20 never appeared. It was just 17 & 18 as described by Trunks, and it even seems to retcon Vegeta as having never become a SSJ in contrast to the original DBZ depiction of the events. If Vegeta never became a SSJ then he couldn't have defeated Androids 19 or 20, and since Piccolo never followed suit with training like in the main timeline, he wouldn't have had the strength to beat them either. Gohan is seen leaving the battle against 17 & 18, and attempting to gather the DBs to possibly wish for Piccolo to be immortal or to disable the Androids, but he fails because Pilaf, Shu, and Mai had just used the balls to wish their youth back which is why Mai isn't an old woman in Trunks' future.
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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:26 pm

Pretty sure Trunks would've known if they existed. Why would Bulma or Gohan leave such a important detail?

Plus, if the Z Fighters had fought #19 and #20 they would've been killed and there would be no need to activate #17 and #18.
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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by Ssjcell » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:06 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:Pretty sure Trunks would've known if they existed. Why would Bulma or Gohan leave such a important detail?

Plus, if the Z Fighters had fought #19 and #20 they would've been killed and there would be no need to activate #17 and #18.
They wouldnt know if vegeta killed 19 , Vegeta doesn't hang out with anyone there for no one would know about it

Vegeta would have had the SAME motivation to become a super saiyan he could have easily killed 19 and easily lost 20 then the Android's would be activated without bulmas knowledge of gero to impart on the z squad

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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:06 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:Pretty sure Trunks would've known if they existed. Why would Bulma or Gohan leave such a important detail?
I think it's just a genuine lack of information. Let's paint it like this: The Androids attack the island and it makes the news. All the main Z-Fighters hear about it so they rush off to take care of it, but Gohan stays behind because he needs to study for school (and Bulma doesn't know what all the fuss is about). 19 and 20 put up a good fight and Gero is forced to retreat. He activates 17 and 18, who kill him and wipe the floor with the unprepared protagonists. Goku is forced back home before the fighting due to the heart virus so he only knows about two assailants, and eventually dies. Thus neither Goku, Bulma or Gohan learn about 19 and 20 and assume that 17 and 18 are the pair of Androids.

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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by Desassina » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:59 am

In my opinion, the humans and saiyans faced androids 19 and 20 in the timeline that Cell came from, because we only got to know this branch after their appearance in the mainline, when his past included Trunks killing Freeza and King Cold, with Goku and the others having time to prepare. 16 could have been activated as well, and deactivated by Trunks, but Cell did not have information about him.

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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by sintzu » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:14 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:If the Z Fighters had fought #19 and #20 they would've been killed and there would be no need to activate #17 and #18.
Why would they ? things would've played out nearly the same with Goku losing and Vegeta stepping in to kill 19 only for Gero to get away and activate 17 and 18.
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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by Apslup » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:08 pm

KBABZ wrote: it's entirely possible that he wasn't even aware of the attacks until Goku set out and said he'd take care of it so Gohan should stay home.
Goku died of the Heart Virus before the Android's Attack.

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Re: Did the z fighters fight 19 and 20 in the future?

Post by KBABZ » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:31 pm

Apslup wrote:
KBABZ wrote: it's entirely possible that he wasn't even aware of the attacks until Goku set out and said he'd take care of it so Gohan should stay home.
Goku died of the Heart Virus before the Android's Attack.
Yes correct, I keep forgetting about that difference!

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