Why Is DB's Cosmic Hierarchy So Brittle In Comparison To Other Franchise's Beings?

[theherodjl]

Zamasu's zero mortal plan very plainly exposed a serious flaw in the stability of the Gods: all you need to do is just kill each Kaioshin which leads to the Hakaishin all dying which again leads to all of the Angels becoming "inactive", and then you have no one left to guard the universes since Zeno/Daishinkan just do not give a God-damn about any of the Gods. Compare this to Marvel/DC where abstract beings/objects of each universe are functionally-immortal since they only use manifestation bodies to act as representatives to their true, metaphysical existences instead of being living things that die. Zamasu even found this concept too tempting to pass up, and left his physical-coil behind to become an abstract being in his own right, doing what all of the Gods in DB should be doing. So my question is why do they allow their order to be akin to a glass cannon with no backups or attempts to live on in a higher form of consciousness??? Why choose to be a total liability that loses any & all power upon taking a high deal of physical damage? Do they too just not care enough about their hierarchy?

[KBABZ]

I think it's because, creatively-speaking, the Kaios and Kaioshins were created to be more guardian characters that are primarily a part of Other World, and only meddle with the mortal realm if things get serious enough, like with Buu. As a result, in-universe they are expected to be wholly good and thus incapable of the types of opinions and decisions Zamasu made. It's entirely possible that in the billions of years of Other World history, Zamasu was the first to turn evil.

[theherodjl]

I think it's because, creatively-speaking, the Kaios and Kaioshins were created to be more guardian characters that are primarily a part of Other World, and only meddle with the mortal realm if things get serious enough, like with Buu. As a result, in-universe they are expected to be wholly good and thus incapable of the types of opinions and decisions Zamasu made. It's entirely possible that in the billions of years of Other World history, Zamasu was the first to turn evil.

They're not really "guardians" if they don't have the power to guard the universe from serious threats, they seem more like glorified engineers with some minor, magical abilities than anything.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

The thing with DB's gods is that they're very much an Eastern-style of cosmic hierarchy.

Gods in Eastern mythology tend to range greatly in power and importance; a little spirit overseeing a river is a god, as is the all-powerful Buddha whom dwarfs all others in certain sects of Buddhism. Gods merely handle the cosmic order of things; they don't necessarily have to be supremely powerful beings and/or invulnerable to mortal shenanigans all on their own.

It's this idea of an all-powerful god that cannot be touched that messes with one's perception of things; Zeno seems to be a deconstruction of this idea. He's all-powerful, but he's effectively a child whose whims have universal consequences.

[SupremeKai25]

The kais are glorified engineers. Their role is to nurture and preserve life in all worlds. It is the destroyer's job to proactively guard those newfound worlds from those who would threaten them. Which is why Zamasu despised this concept that the creators are just meant to be weaklings who rely entirely on the destroyers for help, but what could he do about it? Nothing. Ultimately, most supreme kais are either retards (Gowasu) or incompetent clowns (Shin, Roh). Still, some of them were smart, such as Zamasu (who managed to deceive both mortals and gods) and Anat (a very successful kai). Point is, supreme kais are meant to be smart and wise, that's why they were picked for their position in the first place, and thus they should also be able to avoid danger and outlast everyone. But as Gowasu and Shin prove, this is not always the case. If this vital position is given to a gullible fool, then the whole universe is doomed.

The idea behind this system is that creators and destroyers are meant to protect each other and cooperate. The problem comes when of the two parties is absent. Then what happens? What happened with Kid Buu. The creators, who are meant to avoid danger or rely on the destroyers for protection, simply become prey. Beerus was supposed to do his job and protect the kais from Kid Buu, but since he is a lazy oaf, he went to sleep and doomed them.

Zamasu, in his divine brilliance, saw the flaws of this outdated system, hence why he wanted to destroy ALL gods, and proclaimed himself to be the sole deity that the multiverse needed. There was no longer a need for incompetent supreme kais who allowed their oh-so-precious laws to restrain their judgement, and there was no longer a need for worthless destroyers who selfishly followed their whims. In Zamasu's mind, a single god, towering above the entire cosmos, and holding ultimate power in his hands, was preferable to multiple lesser gods who only squabble against each other. Is that not the truth? Isn't a centralized and unified authority more effective and reliable than a fragmented and bickering regime?

But let us not forget that the weakness and incompetence of these gods is also due to Zeno's utter negligence. He knows that Beerus and Champa are trash at their job, seeing as they prefer to hold lavish tournaments in their names, instead of protecting their universes as they are supposed to. And yet he does nothing about it, because he simply doesn't care and would gladly let the whole cosmos degenerate into a chaotic mess if it pleased him.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Because, if the gods were competent and handled everything, then our protagonists would have nothing to do.

[KBABZ]

I think it's because, creatively-speaking, the Kaios and Kaioshins were created to be more guardian characters that are primarily a part of Other World, and only meddle with the mortal realm if things get serious enough, like with Buu. As a result, in-universe they are expected to be wholly good and thus incapable of the types of opinions and decisions Zamasu made. It's entirely possible that in the billions of years of Other World history, Zamasu was the first to turn evil.

They're not really "guardians" if they don't have the power to guard the universe from serious threats, they seem more like glorified engineers with some minor, magical abilities than anything.

I think that's the point. A consistent, running theme in Dragon Ball is that the guardians, be it Kami, King Kai or Supreme Kai, are all utterly powerless against the threats the heroes train with them for.

[PFM18]

Because, if the gods were competent and handled everything, then our protagonists would have nothing to do.

Lol yeah to some extent this is what is going on here. I think the Universe 7 Gods are purposely meant to be more incompetent than other's so our heroes have more stuff to do

[ankokudaishogun]

Because, if the gods were competent and handled everything, then our protagonists would have nothing to do.

Lol yeah to some extent this is what is going on here. I think the Universe 7 Gods are purposely meant to be more incompetent than other's so our heroes have more stuff to do

To be fair, only Black and Buu were stuff that should have involved the Gods. Everything else was in the natural order of things.

[KBABZ]

Because, if the gods were competent and handled everything, then our protagonists would have nothing to do.

Lol yeah to some extent this is what is going on here. I think the Universe 7 Gods are purposely meant to be more incompetent than other's so our heroes have more stuff to do

To be fair, only Black and Buu were stuff that should have involved the Gods. Everything else was in the natural order of things.

Very true. I think the rule of thumb is that if King Yenma has trouble banishing them to hell, the Kaios have to step in.

[theherodjl]

Very true. I think the rule of thumb is that if King Yenma has trouble banishing them to hell, the Kaios have to step in.

It is a little odd that Enma can banish RoF Freeza(being stronger than his old self & all other DBZ villains combined) to a confined hell, but then he & his Oni have had a difficult time imprisoning DBZ-tier villains in the past. Either Enma got 'stronger' in the sense of having greater authority over souls & containment, and/or he is just incompetent at his job.

[KBABZ]

Very true. I think the rule of thumb is that if King Yenma has trouble banishing them to hell, the Kaios have to step in.

It is a little odd that Enma can banish RoF Freeza(being stronger than his old self & all other DBZ villains combined) to a confined hell, but then he & his Oni have had a difficult time imprisoning DBZ-tier villains in the past. Either Enma got 'stronger' in the sense of having greater authority over souls & containment, and/or he is just incompetent at his job.

Yeah, that is wishy-washy. Maybe he has ancient Kaioshin magic that scaled his power up relative to the strongest known being in the mortal realm is? I dunno, handwave.

[ankokudaishogun]

he & his Oni have had a difficult time imprisoning DBZ-tier villains in the past.

I don't remember such things, only that Raditz was quite rowdy.

If anything, I'd say that by being body-less everybody is on the same level and character, more than power, can make them harder to deal with but still manageable if not by the oni by Enma himself.

[theherodjl]

I don't remember such things, only that Raditz was quite rowdy.

If anything, I'd say that by being body-less everybody is on the same level and character, more than power, can make them harder to deal with but still manageable if not by the oni by Enma himself.

Its the anime filler & movies. Enma could only send people to hell in Toei's original run, but they kept their bodies, and if they were strong enough then they could just start rampaging through hell like Cell, Freeza, Cold, Ginyu Force, and Broly. M12 then showed us that enough evil energy possessing an Oni can make them utterly overpower Enma, and tear open the barrier between the living world & afterlife as long as the evil existed. In Toei's modern run however, Enma can now contain characters as strong as RoF Freeza then send them straight to whatever hell that tortures them the most so he's apparently 'powered up', but I'm really not sure if its his ability to judge souls, improvement of his actual strength, both, or something else.

[goku the krump dancer]

Zamasu was only able to become part of the universe because his soul and consciousness was somehow strong enough to do it. Probably due to not only being a merged spirit (Presumably fusion merges the souls too) and the "immortality" had to stick somehow since his physical body got nerfed due too merging with a body that could be harmed. So I don't think that's just something that Gods can do off head.. Its the immortality that allowed that to even be remotely possible.

[Grand Marshal 1]

I think it's because, creatively-speaking, the Kaios and Kaioshins were created to be more guardian characters that are primarily a part of Other World, and only meddle with the mortal realm if things get serious enough, like with Buu. As a result, in-universe they are expected to be wholly good and thus incapable of the types of opinions and decisions Zamasu made. It's entirely possible that in the billions of years of Other World history, Zamasu was the first to turn evil.

That doesn't really mean anything as even evil deities exist. The Demon Gods are some of them and the Evil Kais and Evil Supreme Kais are said to be evil "Core People" (Shinjins), so Zamasu is simply a rogue Supreme Kai, rather than an evil one, but with the existence of the evil Shinjins, it is very possible that naturally born benevolent Shinjins can turn hostile and violent.

[ankokudaishogun]

the Future Trunks Saga in Super completely retcons the whole "Shinjin" thing. It's safer to ignore it.

[Lord Frieza]

I think another issue people don’t factor in is how modern culture has altered many of these deities.

You have to remember that many of them were originally created when none understood the world as we do today. For example, The World Serpent of Norse mythology was able to rap around the whole world. However they thought that a) the world was a flat disk and b) a good chunk of the world was undiscovered at the time. Plus Thor for example could only lift one paw of the serpent when it was in the form of a giant’s cat. Nor can Thor fly. He also once needed his son to lift a slain giant off of him.

Marvel Thor has destroyed a planet in s single blow. See the difference.

It’s the same with Asian gods. If you read Journy to the West for example, the gods come off as stupid and not as powerful as you would think. Hell they have to beg Budda to save them from the Monkey King.

A lot of old myths and legends are notorious for conflicting feats.