Goku: Xeno power and feats?

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PerhapsTheOtherOne
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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:44 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
xking wrote:I don't think we should disregard powerscaling, as we might end up with a problems. Like Is Namek saga first-form Frieza more powerful then cell, because Frieza destroyed a planet with no effort. And cell never showed anything close to that level of power.
I never said we should, in fact I said that powerscaling based on the original manga was generally reliable.
And we know these characters have ki-control to localized their destructive potential,minimizing collateral damage.
I'm not sure that I buy this argument, because it implies that they can violate the law of conservation of energy by making excess power just disappear into nothingness. But then they wouldn't worry about things like Goku putting enough power into the Kamehameha to destroy the Earth. And in Super it's shown that Beerus and other Hakaishin explicitly do have the ability to make energy disappear, and it's something normal fighters can't do.
The fight with Hakaishin Toppo kinda proves the idea of "destructive potential control".

Freeza explicitly throws a planet-destroying attack at Toppo, who then erases it with a tiny little Hakai attack. Vegeta in SSBE form can put out enough power to overwhelm Toppo's charged-up Hakai attacks, yet we KNOW that Vegeta's attack doesn't do much damage to the surroundings outside of its blast radius.

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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by xking » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:36 pm

Are we really going to bring real-world science limitations into a world with ghost, spiritual energy and magical wish-granting dragons. I don't think the law of conservation of energy has anything to do with the spiritual power.

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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:02 am

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:The fight with Hakaishin Toppo kinda proves the idea of "destructive potential control".

Freeza explicitly throws a planet-destroying attack at Toppo, who then erases it with a tiny little Hakai attack. Vegeta in SSBE form can put out enough power to overwhelm Toppo's charged-up Hakai attacks, yet we KNOW that Vegeta's attack doesn't do much damage to the surroundings outside of its blast radius.
What I was saying was that characters with Hakai energy can violate CoE like that, but characters with normal ki can't. Vegeta just hit him with more ki than he was able to erase in that period of time.
Are we really going to bring real-world science limitations into a world with ghost, spiritual energy and magical wish-granting dragons. I don't think the law of conservation of energy has anything to do with the spiritual power.
Again, it wouldn't be such a big objection if it wasn't made clear in the setting that you need a special kind of power to cancel out energy into nothing, and only a few characters have that power.

I think it's more reasonable to just say that there isn't always a huge amount of collateral damage because that's how superpowered fights work in fiction 99% of the time.
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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by Rakurai » Sun Sep 30, 2018 9:21 am

xking wrote:Are we really going to bring real-world science limitations into a world with ghost, spiritual energy and magical wish-granting dragons. I don't think the law of conservation of energy has anything to do with the spiritual power.
I agree energy conservation isn't a thing that's considered in a show like this, but the same could be said for every single character controlling their ki attacks that would be scaled to planet busting or even galaxy busting. It's ridiculous to say that Gohan was precisely controlling his ki output when he overwhelmed Cell's apparent solar busting Kamehameha even though Goku told him to let it rip and show his true power lol.

Or that Gotenks was holding back enough to destroy Buu but not Earth when he launched a ki barrage at him, even though we know Buu would require something stronger to be killed with and the kids tend to be reckless with their own energy. Frankly it's quite a hypocritical thing to say.

These sorts of collateral damage, environmental destruction, are simply handwaved by the writers when it suits them. It's why destructive feats simply do not make sense.
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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by Mnich » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:59 pm

Both Goku from Xenoverse 1 and Goku from Xenoverse 2 are NOT Time Patrollers.

Xenoverse 1 - this Goku is from the age 778 (Battle of Gods). We help this Goku to fight against Beerus. After that, Demigra revives Frieza, Cell and Kid Buu with the Dragon Balls. The villains are also powered up (corrupted) by Demigra. The Supreme Kaioshin of Time uses Dragon Balls from the age 850 (Xenoverse age) to contact this Goku so he can help us this time. After the bad guys are defeated, a new corrupted opponents appears, this time we fight against Vegeta, Gohan and Gotenks. But they are also defeated. Goku tells us to go after Demigra and that he will catch up with us soon. Our hero returns to the Time Nest where the battle against Demigra begins. After defeating corrupted Xeno Trunks, Goku comes to help us again as he promised. Demigra is curious why he can't corrupt him and Goku answers that maybe because he was a God once too (Battle of Gods reference). Then the final battle begins with two possible endings. Our hero can defeated Demigra alone (with the little spiritual help from Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc) or if we struggle long enough, Goku will appear to help us again, this time in SSJ3. Demigra is defeated and that's the end. This Goku never became a Time Patroller as he never appears in Xenoverse 2.

Xenoverse 2 - this Goku is from the age 779 (Resurrection F). This is the story of revived Frieza, but this time around Dragon Balls also revives Metal Cooler. Long story short - the evil brothers are defeated by Super Saiyan Blue Goku, Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and our hero (Xenoverse 2 main character). This Goku is grateful and offers his help in case we need it. After a few battles, we fight against Final Form Mira (Towa Absorbed) in the unknown timeline. In this battle Goku appears on the battlefield to help us. He says: "Whis did me a favor and sent me in. I'm glad I finally get to repay the debt I owe you. This time I'm the one coming to the rescue." (Resurrection F reference). After Mira is defeated, everyone celebrates in Conton City and this Goku probably returns with Whis and Beerus to his own timeline (779), after Whis tells him that it's not a good idea to stay not in their own era. That's it. This Goku also never became a Time Patroller.

Also, if it isn't clear to you yet - Goku from Xenoverse 2 IS NOT the same Goku from Xenoverse 1. They are different.

Now - Goku Xeno. His name doesn't mean that he is from Xenoverse.

Super Dragon Ball Heroes is a different continuity. The whole Time Patrolling thing is also different. In Xenoverse 1 Time Patroller Trunks wishes for a strong ally (our hero) to fight against Time Breakers. In SDBH, Supreme Kaioshin of Time summons the strongest warrior from Trunks memories. This IS the Xeno Goku. He is the one in fancy clothes and with SSJ4. This means that he comes from the timeline similar to GT. He doesn't have a power of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue. The UMX Xeno Goku is exception as far as I know. This Goku even mention this while fighting Super Saiyan Blue Goku in Prison Planet: "A blue-haired Super Saiyan...so, a "me" that uses a power I don't know about."

I hope it somehow helps you understand that Xenoverse/Xenoverse 2 Goku =/= Super Dragon Ball Heroes Goku. I just hate as someone spreads misinformation.

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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by Rakurai » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:26 pm

Mnich wrote:Both Goku from Xenoverse 1 and Goku from Xenoverse 2 are NOT Time Patrollers.

Xenoverse 1 - this Goku is from the age 778 (Battle of Gods). We help this Goku to fight against Beerus. After that, Demigra revives Frieza, Cell and Kid Buu with the Dragon Balls. The villains are also powered up (corrupted) by Demigra. The Supreme Kaioshin of Time uses Dragon Balls from the age 850 (Xenoverse age) to contact this Goku so he can help us this time. After the bad guys are defeated, a new corrupted opponents appears, this time we fight against Vegeta, Gohan and Gotenks. But they are also defeated. Goku tells us to go after Demigra and that he will catch up with us soon. Our hero returns to the Time Nest where the battle against Demigra begins. After defeating corrupted Xeno Trunks, Goku comes to help us again as he promised. Demigra is curious why he can't corrupt him and Goku answers that maybe because he was a God once too (Battle of Gods reference). Then the final battle begins with two possible endings. Our hero can defeated Demigra alone (with the little spiritual help from Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc) or if we struggle long enough, Goku will appear to help us again, this time in SSJ3. Demigra is defeated and that's the end. This Goku never became a Time Patroller as he never appears in Xenoverse 2.

Xenoverse 2 - this Goku is from the age 779 (Resurrection F). This is the story of revived Frieza, but this time around Dragon Balls also revives Metal Cooler. Long story short - the evil brothers are defeated by Super Saiyan Blue Goku, Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and our hero (Xenoverse 2 main character). This Goku is grateful and offers his help in case we need it. After a few battles, we fight against Final Form Mira (Towa Absorbed) in the unknown timeline. In this battle Goku appears on the battlefield to help us. He says: "Whis did me a favor and sent me in. I'm glad I finally get to repay the debt I owe you. This time I'm the one coming to the rescue." (Resurrection F reference). After Mira is defeated, everyone celebrates in Conton City and this Goku probably returns with Whis and Beerus to his own timeline (779), after Whis tells him that it's not a good idea to stay not in their own era. That's it. This Goku also never became a Time Patroller.

Also, if it isn't clear to you yet - Goku from Xenoverse 2 IS NOT the same Goku from Xenoverse 1. They are different.

Now - Goku Xeno. His name doesn't mean that he is from Xenoverse.

Super Dragon Ball Heroes is a different continuity. The whole Time Patrolling thing is also different. In Xenoverse 1 Time Patroller Trunks wishes for a strong ally (our hero) to fight against Time Breakers. In SDBH, Supreme Kaioshin of Time summons the strongest warrior from Trunks memories. This IS the Xeno Goku. He is the one in fancy clothes and with SSJ4. This means that he comes from the timeline similar to GT. He doesn't have a power of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue. The UMX Xeno Goku is exception as far as I know. This Goku even mention this while fighting Super Saiyan Blue Goku in Prison Planet: "A blue-haired Super Saiyan...so, a "me" that uses a power I don't know about."

I hope it somehow helps you understand that Xenoverse/Xenoverse 2 Goku =/= Super Dragon Ball Heroes Goku. I just hate as someone spreads misinformation.
Thank you for the clarification response. I hate people spreading misinformation as well. I hope people who read this thread will understand Xeno Goku's background better. It's such a shame to see other website forum threads merging SDBH Xeno Goku & UMX Xeno Goku's backgrounds together, when the events of the two series already contradict.

As for SDBH Xeno Goku coming from a timeline that is based after the events of GT - this has been strongly indicated in SDBH as far as we know, without even taking into account SSJ4. Xeno Goten is obviously modeled after GT Goten, not EoZ Goten. Xeno Goku has no idea of Saiyan-utilized god ki. He has fought the Shadow Dragons in the past, recently revealed in UM4.
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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:35 pm

So, to pretty much sum it up:
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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by TobyS » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:32 am

Mnich wrote:Both Goku from Xenoverse 1 and Goku from Xenoverse 2 are NOT Time Patrollers.

Xenoverse 1 - this Goku is from the age 778 (Battle of Gods). We help this Goku to fight against Beerus. After that, Demigra revives Frieza, Cell and Kid Buu with the Dragon Balls. The villains are also powered up (corrupted) by Demigra. The Supreme Kaioshin of Time uses Dragon Balls from the age 850 (Xenoverse age) to contact this Goku so he can help us this time. After the bad guys are defeated, a new corrupted opponents appears, this time we fight against Vegeta, Gohan and Gotenks. But they are also defeated. Goku tells us to go after Demigra and that he will catch up with us soon. Our hero returns to the Time Nest where the battle against Demigra begins. After defeating corrupted Xeno Trunks, Goku comes to help us again as he promised. Demigra is curious why he can't corrupt him and Goku answers that maybe because he was a God once too (Battle of Gods reference). Then the final battle begins with two possible endings. Our hero can defeated Demigra alone (with the little spiritual help from Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc) or if we struggle long enough, Goku will appear to help us again, this time in SSJ3. Demigra is defeated and that's the end. This Goku never became a Time Patroller as he never appears in Xenoverse 2.

Xenoverse 2 - this Goku is from the age 779 (Resurrection F). This is the story of revived Frieza, but this time around Dragon Balls also revives Metal Cooler. Long story short - the evil brothers are defeated by Super Saiyan Blue Goku, Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and our hero (Xenoverse 2 main character). This Goku is grateful and offers his help in case we need it. After a few battles, we fight against Final Form Mira (Towa Absorbed) in the unknown timeline. In this battle Goku appears on the battlefield to help us. He says: "Whis did me a favor and sent me in. I'm glad I finally get to repay the debt I owe you. This time I'm the one coming to the rescue." (Resurrection F reference). After Mira is defeated, everyone celebrates in Conton City and this Goku probably returns with Whis and Beerus to his own timeline (779), after Whis tells him that it's not a good idea to stay not in their own era. That's it. This Goku also never became a Time Patroller.

Also, if it isn't clear to you yet - Goku from Xenoverse 2 IS NOT the same Goku from Xenoverse 1. They are different.

Now - Goku Xeno. His name doesn't mean that he is from Xenoverse.

Super Dragon Ball Heroes is a different continuity. The whole Time Patrolling thing is also different. In Xenoverse 1 Time Patroller Trunks wishes for a strong ally (our hero) to fight against Time Breakers. In SDBH, Supreme Kaioshin of Time summons the strongest warrior from Trunks memories. This IS the Xeno Goku. He is the one in fancy clothes and with SSJ4. This means that he comes from the timeline similar to GT. He doesn't have a power of Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue. The UMX Xeno Goku is exception as far as I know. This Goku even mention this while fighting Super Saiyan Blue Goku in Prison Planet: "A blue-haired Super Saiyan...so, a "me" that uses a power I don't know about."

I hope it somehow helps you understand that Xenoverse/Xenoverse 2 Goku =/= Super Dragon Ball Heroes Goku. I just hate as someone spreads misinformation.
I agree on you differences between Heroes and Xenoverse, but I'm not sure about Goku being a different guy in both Xenoverses. She tries to minimise the number of existent timelines.

1. Most of the time you meet a zfighter they don't remember you when you see them again. Once you get the timeline close enough to be fixed by Chronoa people lose their memories of the altered timeline when it returns to normal. (Not sure if GoDs and Angels are exempt or not)

So there's no need for them to be different Gokus...

2. Alternatively Goku never says he doesn't remember anything from XV1 that proves he's different or memory wiped does he? CaC2 is a different guy to CaC1 so being surprised by him is not abnormal. He seems to remember you from the Golden Freeza fight (hence the repaying the favour stuff) so he wasn't wiped between those two points it seems?
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
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Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by Mnich » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:29 pm

I haven't played Xenoverse series for a while, so I guess you might be right. Even so, Goku is still just pulled from his timeline to help fight the final bosses. He is not a time patroller. I believe we might see the introduction of Xeno Goku in Xenoverse 3, but it's still ahead of us.

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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by BrolyLSSJ » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:49 pm

The moment I saw people claiming Goku: Xeno being "Multiversal" I just lost a few brain cells.....
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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by Rakurai » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:39 pm

BrolyLSSJ wrote:The moment I saw people claiming Goku: Xeno being "Multiversal" I just lost a few brain cells.....
Nobody in Dragon Ball is "multiversal" except Zeno, and it's only because of his erase ability (non-combat related), he's not even an actual fighter.
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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by theherodjl » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:20 pm

BrolyLSSJ wrote:The moment I saw people claiming Goku: Xeno being "Multiversal" I just lost a few brain cells.....
I use to actually debate with several DB fans who liked to claim that the characters are all in some super-high league of powers & abilities above most other mediums of fiction, and this was long before even DBS came out. It killed my brain trying to comprehend why DB characters cannot have even the slightest disadvantage against characters from comics or even from other anime, and so I just stop after any such discussion lasts more than a few posts because my brain's already been brought back once with the DBs.
I can remember one youtuber who claimed Goku was omnipotent after absorbing the DBs at the end of GT, and I just said screw it, and then I left.
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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:19 am

theherodjl wrote:
BrolyLSSJ wrote:The moment I saw people claiming Goku: Xeno being "Multiversal" I just lost a few brain cells.....
I use to actually debate with several DB fans who liked to claim that the characters are all in some super-high league of powers & abilities above most other mediums of fiction, and this was long before even DBS came out. It killed my brain trying to comprehend why DB characters cannot have even the slightest disadvantage against characters from comics or even from other anime, and so I just stop after any such discussion lasts more than a few posts because my brain's already been brought back once with the DBs.
I can remember one youtuber who claimed Goku was omnipotent after absorbing the DBs at the end of GT, and I just said screw it, and then I left.
Well Monaka is clearly omnipotent :mrgreen:
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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by Hulk10 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:11 pm

I like how in the Dragon Ball Heroes anime Goku Xeno and regular Goku are able to fight evenly in SSJ4 and SSJB respectively.
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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:48 pm

Hulk10 wrote:I like how in the Dragon Ball Heroes anime Goku Xeno and regular Goku are able to fight evenly in SSJ4 and SSJB respectively.
To be fair, Goku:Xeno is stupidly strong compared to how he was back in GT, which he went through in his timeline along with some extra stuff like the original movies.

The old GT Goku would likely only match up to SSB Goku from when Freeza first returned, at most, maybe even only SSG at this point.

It's a testament to the power of the god forms that they can easily match up with versions of Goku far past EoZ without even reaching that time period yet, and with the additional time-jumping shenanigans and constant battles with the Demons.

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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by Hulk10 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:58 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:I like how in the Dragon Ball Heroes anime Goku Xeno and regular Goku are able to fight evenly in SSJ4 and SSJB respectively.
To be fair, Goku:Xeno is stupidly strong compared to how he was back in GT, which he went through in his timeline along with some extra stuff like the original movies.

The old GT Goku would likely only match up to SSB Goku from when Freeza first returned, at most, maybe even only SSG at this point.

It's a testament to the power of the god forms that they can easily match up with versions of Goku far past EoZ without even reaching that time period yet, and with the additional time-jumping shenanigans and constant battles with the Demons.
But that doesn't make SSJ4 any less potent or less impressive.
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Re: Goku: Xeno power and feats?

Post by p-hyvo » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:54 am

Regarding your question, I just know that base xeno goku >xenon king Vegeta> beerus.
Gave that, ssjfp xenon goku >> goku mui from dbs

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