Ssj gohan

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Ssj gohan

Post by Ssjcell » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:39 pm

I know gohan would prefer to not use ssj for reasons that were specified in the manga. He wants to gain power as a human not as a Saiyan . However the manga or gohan doesn't ever specifically state If he would gain power if he would turn super Saiyan. Is gohan fighting in his potential unlock state or is he just extremely powerful in his base state? Would he power up if he turned super saiyan ? Or would it be similar to the later stages of the Buu saga where he couldn't turn ssj or it wouldn't make a difference? I would say he is In his base state and he is just very powerful in said state.

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Re: Ssj gohan

Post by p-hyvo » Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:47 pm

he's permanently in his mystic state in the manga, by train he learned how to control it

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Re: Ssj gohan

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:01 am

Ultimate was always a big mess in franchise.

DBS anime made it completely different state/transformation, while manga seemed to follow more GT-like route where Gohan kind of absorbs Ultimate in base.
The question is wheter turning SSJ would make any difference. In GT he was still using SSJ as a power up but in Super he didn't use SSJ against Kefla.
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Re: Ssj gohan

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:15 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:Ultimate was always a big mess in franchise.

DBS anime made it completely different state/transformation, while manga seemed to follow more GT-like route where Gohan kind of absorbs Ultimate in base.
The question is wheter turning SSJ would make any difference. In GT he was still using SSJ as a power up but in Super he didn't use SSJ against Kefla.
Gohan in GT hasn't absorbed mystic in his base kek

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Re: Ssj gohan

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:25 pm

Transforming into a ssj wouldn’t add any power to Gohan.

The whole point of ultimate is that you can bring out al your power without having to transform/ waste stamina in a form like say ssj3.


Gohan even said he was at his limits vs kefla. Going ssj doesn’t do shit for him but waste energy

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Re: Ssj gohan

Post by Lionel » Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:41 pm

Have to agree with Super Saiyan no longer having any use for Gohan. All of the latent achievable power of those transformations would have been compressed into his "Ultimate" state. If he was looking for a way to amplify his power, outside of just normal training, then something like the Kaioken might do. It's technically an ability that's supposed to raise your strength and power in a burst-life effect except without the "transformation" designation put next to it.

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Re: Ssj gohan

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:21 pm

About Potential Unleashed. In my opinion, when going "Ultimate" you might not be able to use any SSJ forms, because the Anime did an excellent work with providing us the piece of info we needed (at least I needed it). Whether "Ultimate" is a SSJ variant or not. Well, it is a branch of the SSJ2 form. Basically, Gohan goes SSJ2 and then unlocks his deeper potential, which results in his Base-like "Ultimate" form.

When someone keeps on training, they will be in their Potential Unleashed form for ever, replacing their Base form in the process. However, just like with Gohan in Super, by not training to keep your inner potential unlocked, it will eventually "lock" itself deep within you once again, reverting you in your regular Base form.

It has been stated though, that Gohan can still go SSJ and SSJ2 while in his "Ultimate" form. Nonetheless, he never received a great advantage by doing that, nor did he actually did it to fight (in BoG he used "Ultimate" against Beerus, but then turned SSJ on top of his "Ultimate" to perform the SSJG ritual).

Basically, "Ultimate" could be considered as Gohan's SSJ3, but by transforming on top of it, he can't get an advantage for the following reasons: powering-up his Potential Unleashed form can offer greater power than going SSJ on top of it (which has it's limitations and a specific multiplier), so even if he became a SSJ2 in his "Ultimate", he would get an instant power increase, however, by simply releashing more and more power, in his Potential Unleashed state, he would eventually surpass his "Ultimate SSJ2"s full power. Just like Super Saiyan Rosé, Potential Unleashed has infinite potential.

Of all the Saiyans from the Z fighters, Gohan is the one who should receive some God/Angel training. His form has divine roots (the Elder Kai ritual, the Z sword tarining with Shin and Kibito etc.). I really want to see Gohan interacting more with Whis and Beerus. They say that he will be casted aside in Broly, so why bringing him back as a figther, when you don't use him?
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Re: Ssj gohan

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:34 pm

Lionel wrote:Have to agree with Super Saiyan no longer having any use for Gohan. All of the latent achievable power of those transformations would have been compressed into his "Ultimate" state. If he was looking for a way to amplify his power, outside of just normal training, then something like the Kaioken might do. It's technically an ability that's supposed to raise your strength and power in a burst-life effect except without the "transformation" designation put next to it.
I agree. Gohan had reached a level even beyond his max, there's nothing higher for him to reach. Even if he transforms into a Super Saiyan, it probably would do nothing but change his hair color.

This is, until Super kicks in and gives Gohan extra room to grow into God tier, of course.
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Re: Ssj gohan

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:08 pm

p-hyvo wrote: Gohan in GT hasn't absorbed mystic in his base kek
He did. It was confirmed by interview that Gohan went against Super 17 as the same warrior he became against Super Buu, yet he still uses SSJ.
Intreview even called it "Ultimate Gohan". Besides, if Gohan completely lost his Ultimate form, then his base form would never survive fight with Rildo let alone not being hurt at all. Gohan in Z had no chance against any form of Buu even as SSJ2.

Even early Battle of Gods version showed Ultimate Gohan going super saiyan to fight Beerus.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: Ssj gohan

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:40 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
p-hyvo wrote: Gohan in GT hasn't absorbed mystic in his base kek
He did. It was confirmed by interview that Gohan went against Super 17 as the same warrior he became against Super Buu, yet he still uses SSJ.
Intreview even called it "Ultimate Gohan". Besides, if Gohan completely lost his Ultimate form, then his base form would never survive fight with Rildo let alone not being hurt at all. Gohan in Z had no chance against any form of Buu even as SSJ2.

Even early Battle of Gods version showed Ultimate Gohan going super saiyan to fight Beerus.
I didn't know about that interview, can I see it?
Maybe, it just meant "with the same might" not at all coasts "with the same form".
Plus, via scaling obviously rildo In s17 saga is much stronger than when he faced goku, he got an upgrade in hell from myui and hero obviously, or else Gohan would have annilhated him effrortlessly In base.
Oh boy, gt's scaling is a clusterfuck of magnificent exaggerations where anyone past m2 arc >>anyone in z. Via scaling, in gt even pan >>super vegetto z unironically
Plus, I remember the gt perfect files stating that Gohan had lost his mystic state, is that possible? Tomorrow I'll check and let you know

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Re: Ssj gohan

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:04 pm

p-hyvo wrote: I didn't know about that interview, can I see it?
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -story-qa/
Maybe, it just meant "with the same might" not at all coasts "with the same form".
Well you might be right, it was never clear what Ultimate really is until Super, so it's more like his base is just around equal to Ultimate from Z than being Ultimate form itself.
Plus, via scaling obviously rildo In s17 saga is much stronger than when he faced goku, he got an upgrade in hell from myui and hero obviously, or else Gohan would have annilhated him effrortlessly In base.
It's hard to tell because we don't see most of their fight and Gohan was getting beaten after his arm got frozen, but he said that he isn't hurt at all.
We also don't know much about Rildo's power except for being higher than Buu. How much higher? It's unknown tbh.
in gt even pan >>super vegetto z
I wouldn't go that far. She is for sure stronger than everyone until #16, #17 and #18 but after that it's questionable.
Plus, I remember the gt perfect files stating that Gohan had lost his mystic state, is that possible? Tomorrow I'll check and let you know
I don't remember that, but i'm pretty sure Perfect Files said Gohan didn't stop training after Z (although it doesn't mean he had hard training and improved a lot, it rather means he kept his shape unlike Gohan from early Super episodes). It also contradicts interview above a bit since it stated that before Super 17 arc Gohan "gave up fighting" but i'm not sure if it means he was weaker in Baby arc or that he just wasn't interested in fighting. Intreview says about cancelled scene of Gohan taking his gi from wardrobe to fight for his family so i guess that's it rather than becoming noticably stronger between those arcs.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: Ssj gohan

Post by p-hyvo » Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:48 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
p-hyvo wrote: I didn't know about that interview, can I see it?
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -story-qa/
Thanks, I'll read it
Maybe, it just meant "with the same might" not at all coasts "with the same form".
Well you might be right, it was never clear what Ultimate really is until Super, so it's more like his base is just around equal to Ultimate from Z than being Ultimate form itself.
Plus, via scaling obviously rildo In s17 saga is much stronger than when he faced goku, he got an upgrade in hell from myui and hero obviously, or else Gohan would have annilhated him effrortlessly In base.
It's hard to tell because we don't see most of their fight and Gohan was getting beaten after his arm got frozen, but he said that he isn't hurt at all.
We also don't know much about Rildo's power except for being higher than Buu. How much higher? It's unknown tbh. [/quote]

Rildo is more powerfull than rage buuhan (buuhan when he was cracking the dimensional fabric) as suppressed, full power he surpassses even ssj vegetto from z , but not by much
in gt even pan >>super vegetto z
I wouldn't go that far. She is for sure stronger than everyone until #16, #17 and #18 but after that it's questionable. [/quote]

I'm not exaggerating, that's true.
Using the rildo point, we know that
Pan post m2>>baby fetus form (stronger than rildo cause he took him over)>rildo FP >z vegetto ssj ≥pan m2 arc (rage)>suppressed rildo>rage buugan
Yes, this is what I mean when I say. "Gt's scaling is a clusterfuck of nonsense exaggerations kek but I like it
Plus, I remember the gt perfect files stating that Gohan had lost his mystic state, is that possible? Tomorrow I'll check and let you know
I don't remember that, but i'm pretty sure Perfect Files said Gohan didn't stop training after Z (although it doesn't mean he had hard training and improved a lot, it rather means he kept his shape unlike Gohan from early Super episodes). It also contradicts interview above a bit since it stated that before Super 17 arc Gohan "gave up fighting" but i'm not sure if it means he was weaker in Baby arc or that he just wasn't interested in fighting. Intreview says about cancelled scene of Gohan taking his gi from wardrobe to fight for his family so i guess that's it rather than becoming noticably stronger between those arcs. [/quote]

Follow me, I never stated that he stopped training. I know he continues between z and gt, but maybe they just treated mystic as a temporary power up

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