Son Gohan's power level writing in Super as a whole

[Green_Goblin]

I wanted to post something which I was thinking about these last few days. It's about Gohan's power level in Super as a whole as of yet.
So let's go from the beginning, it's the Battle of Gods Arc, Gohan is 4 years after his Ultimate form maximum from the Buu Saga (which is on-par or slightly stronger than SSJ 3 Goku of that time), he seems to be almost as in shape as back then when Beerus arrives on Earth, considering his physical appearance, but lacks the sharpness of back then (I'd say that he's at 70% of his Super Buu fight).

A few months had passed, and Frieza is back with us (for the 1000th time I believe?). Gohan's SSJ in Resurrection 'F' is nowhere near his Mystic/Ultimate prime from when he fought Super Buu, as Piccolo referred to that level as something so powerful even AFTER Gohan had fought (and technically won) against Lavender, making his RoF base less than 2% of his Mystic power (50 times that will be a 100%). Making Tagoma look like a Super Perfect Cell tier at best (Captain Ginyu is slightly higher, if my asumption is correct then maybe Dabura tier?) and Shisami at Semi-Perfect Cell tier when is scaled realistically.

Gohan's path back to power began in episode 30 (Vegeta even notes that Gohan's potential is still higher than both his and Goku's despite their current power gains = to crush Tagoma-Ginyu to dust without breaking a sweat at base and to match Golden Frieza in Super Saiyan Blue), we are shown he was training again for a while with Piccolo (who should be stronger than the initial Majin Buu by this point), even though he's still rusty and NOT as powerful as he was back in his prime, but sure is much stronger than what he was against Frieza. Then he skips the Tournament of Destroyers and his power never to be scaled until Future Trunks shares a day with him and notes that his base is currently weaker than his SSJ 2 power back as a kid against Cell. Once Gohan is updated of Goku Black and Zamasu he goes to train with Piccolo in the Room of Spirit and Time ASAP and goes back to his Mystic prime (look at him when he bid Future Trunks and Future Mai farewell).

Then it's 3 months of peace and despite the fact he was indeed much weaker than his Mystic prime, he wasn't as weak and rusty as in RoF, that's shown with the Watagash/Barry Kahn conflict, and the baseball episode (70) where Champa compliments him despite his fragile figure ("You're pretty strong, eh?") after he survived SSB Goku's pitch. This situation of Gohan maintaining some degree of his true/best game power is shown when he spars with Goku in their family field at the beginning of episode 75, making his old man proud.

So basically he rose back to a nice piece of his power when he fought Lavender, a character who's at Majin Vegeta's tier, and despite being much stronger than this tier (his SSJ and SSJ 2 caused Lavender to resort to his dirty moves = Gohan's base at this point is stronger than BOTH what Goku and Vegeta were at base in the Majin Buu Saga), the canide alien had managed to gradually weaken him with his poison breathes. After a senzu bean recovery Gohan seems like he gained some small zenkai. Back on Earth right afterwards, all he was left to do to be back in the top of his game is to be fully drawn out by Piccolo motivating and fixing his mindset, after a session of some sparring against his old master and meditation he became even stronger in his Mystic/Ultimate form than ever before. Gohan is not satisfied, and again wants to go even further, he faces against his dad who is joined by Tien and shows them that he can handle the two of them at once (with some small aid from Piccolo by the end of match 1) - Goku is back in fighting shape, after his power lowered down due to rust even Earth bullets could hurt him to a level MUCH MUCH STRONGER than his and Vegeta's base power level from the begining of the Champa Arc after 3 years of preparations. Gohan wants to fight against his dad when he's at full power as well, so they each eat a senzu bean and begin match 2, Gohan is much stronger than his dad's current SSJ 2 and managed to become almost at SSB Kaioken tier. Goku is amazed by his quick progress.

Then comes the Tournament of Power, and in the span of 48 Earth minutes Gohan went a few levels up, starting with his battle against Botamo who's stronger than any villain from Z (sans Kid Buu, Buutenks and Buuhan) whom he defeated in his base form, moving to Obuni where his Mystic form's power level rose even higher, the Universe 6 Namekians which made him get further in the power levels chart, the Shantza and Damon fight where his wisdom kicked in (just like in most of his performance in this tournament), his fight against Universe 3's aces which took him higher once again (making what his pre-ToP max look like a different person who's less than 1/5 of his end-of-the-ToP self), he undoubtly grew much stronger as upon facing Dyspo he felt comfortable enough to tell Golden Frieza not to try anything funny against him (the same Golden Frieza was 20 minutes or so earlier a person who could kill Ultimate Gohan at any given moment), and his standings to the likes of God of Desturcion mode Toppo (a character who's leagues above the SSB Kaioken from 4.5 hours earlier Goku who effortlessly took out Gohan) and Dyspo (the latter is on-par with him due to his speed, but without it Dyspo is inferior to Gohan in strength).

Not to mention his manga version where he's on par with SSJ Kefla (a **Non-Mastered** Ultra Instinct tier character in the anime as a SSJ2, but only as strong as a combination between LSSJ Kale, who crushed Anilaza within seconds, and SSJ Caulifla in the manga) which makes him look even more powerful than his anime self in hindsight.

Bottom line is, Gohan's power in Super was mostly in downfall (with a brief increase by episode 30) but had a few steep peaks in the later part of the series, from the Zamasu Arc's end to Super episode 131 Gohan multiplied his battle power by more than any of the conventional Super Saiyan form will do to one's base (the current maximum is 400 times over by SSJ 3).

Edits: Lavender's name spelling throughout.

[MasenkoHA]

It’s been a while since I’ve seen the Buu saga in any form wasn’t Ultimate Gohan suppose to be a lot stronger than Super Saiyajin 3 Goku? SSJ 3 Goku was about on par or slightly stronger than Fat Buu. Wasn’t Ultimate Gohan suppose to be the strongest non-fused character in Z?

[Green_Goblin]

It’s been a while since I’ve seen the Buu saga in any form wasn’t Ultimate Gohan suppose to be a lot stronger than Super Saiyajin 3 Goku? SSJ 3 Goku was about on par or slightly stronger than Fat Buu. Wasn’t Ultimate Gohan suppose to be the strongest non-fused character in Z?

Ultimate Gohan was stronger by a large margin than Super Buu, HOWEVER against Super Buu who absorbed Gotenks and Piccolo the power gaps made it seem like he was in awe just as Goku was, at his base power level, against Raditz.

It's implied that initial Super Buu is weaker than Kid Buu which SSJ 3 Goku at 100% was on-par with, but had no way to win due to stamina issues.

Goku admitted by the point Gohan was fighting Super Buu that his SSJ 3 power at that time was stronger than Fat/Initial Majin Buu, but he didn't fought seriously because he wanted Buu to be handled by the others/kids.

[Hugo Boss]

It’s been a while since I’ve seen the Buu saga in any form wasn’t Ultimate Gohan suppose to be a lot stronger than Super Saiyajin 3 Goku?

According to V-Jump, after absorbing Gohan, Majin Boo gained power on par with SS3 Goku.

[AnimeNation101]

I wish Gohan’s power gains were more consistent and realistic to Dragon Ball.

But a GREATLY disagree that Gohan was even approaching SSB Kaioken level in the fight between him and Goku. In fact, pretty sure he was still below SSB power. And the only reasons Goku went to SSB and then SSB Kaioken was because Gohan was asking him to go full power.

[Green_Goblin]

But a GREATLY disagree that Gohan was even approaching SSB Kaioken level in the fight between him and Goku. In fact, pretty sure he was still below SSB power. And the only reasons Goku went to SSB and then SSB Kaioken was because Gohan was asking him to go full power.

He survived struggling against SSB Kaioken (even if it's for a few more moments of conscious) and not died against, meaning he was clearly not sub-par to SSB (at least not the SSB's power level from before the ToP).

[AnimeNation101]

But a GREATLY disagree that Gohan was even approaching SSB Kaioken level in the fight between him and Goku. In fact, pretty sure he was still below SSB power. And the only reasons Goku went to SSB and then SSB Kaioken was because Gohan was asking him to go full power.

He survived struggling against SSB Kaioken (even if it's for a few more moments of conscious) and not died against, meaning he was clearly not sub-par to SSB (at least not the SSB's power level from before the ToP).

Not necessarily.

He got punched once by SSBKK Goku and went unconscious after a few seconds. How does that mean he isn’t weaker to SSB Goku?

He was knocked out by SSBKK Goku. Who’s to say Goku at full power in SSB can’t do the same?

Plus, it was stated and later proven in there sparring match that SSB Goku and Golden Freeza were of equal power. And I dont see Gohan being equal to or stronger than Golden Freeza with just less than 3 days of training with Piccolo who isn’t even God level.

[Green_Goblin]

He got punched once by SSBKK Goku and went unconscious after a few seconds. How does that mean he isn’t weaker to SSB Goku?

He was knocked out by SSBKK Goku. Who’s to say Goku at full power in SSB can’t do the same?

Plus, it was stated and later proven in there sparring match that SSB Goku and Golden Freeza were of equal power. And I dont see Gohan being equal to or stronger than Golden Freeza with just less than 3 days of training with Piccolo who isn’t even God level.

The fact that Kaioken is a multiplier technique, means that he was clearly multiplying his SSB power by some margin, small or not, still stronger than his given SSB power as of then.

Gohan wasn't knocked out upon getting hit, he kept on going for a moment despite being with a fracture of his energy left, charged with one last punch and lost conscious upon reaching a few centimeters from Goku's face.

About the Frieza part, as you've said yourself, the writing in DBS isn't consistent.

[Hugo Boss]

He was knocked out by SSBKK Goku. Who’s to say Goku at full power in SSB can’t do the same?

Well, that is a level of power that surpass SSBlue. The question is actually: can SSBlue do the same? Assuming Gohan has confidence in being able to beat Golden Freeza, it’s implied he became at least as strong as SSBlue.

[AnimeNation101]

He got punched once by SSBKK Goku and went unconscious after a few seconds. How does that mean he isn’t weaker to SSB Goku?

He was knocked out by SSBKK Goku. Who’s to say Goku at full power in SSB can’t do the same?

Plus, it was stated and later proven in there sparring match that SSB Goku and Golden Freeza were of equal power. And I dont see Gohan being equal to or stronger than Golden Freeza with just less than 3 days of training with Piccolo who isn’t even God level.

The fact that Kaioken is a multiplier technique, means that he was clearly multiplying his SSB power by some margin, small or not, still stronger than his given SSB power as of then.

Gohan wasn't knocked out upon getting hit, he kept on going for a moment despite being with a fracture of his energy left, charged with one last punch and lost conscious upon reaching a few centimeters from Goku's face.

About the Frieza part, as you've said yourself, the writing in DBS isn't consistent.

I didn’t say Gohan got knocked out upon getting hit i literally said Gohan gets one punched and in a few seconds is unconscious.

So I'm saying that SSBKK Goku being used to beat Gohan DOESN’T mean that SSB cant do the same. Actually, the fact that SSBKK was able to one punch Gohan just means that that level of power is overkill for beating Gohan in a fight and that a weaker power could probably also do the trick. Not to mention we dont even know of Goku is going full power SSBKK to begin with because he could just be doing this since Gohan asked him to and if he really was gonna go full power, he would have gone SSBKKx20 like he did against Jiren.

Basically what I'm saying it, Gohan getting one punched by SSBKK Goku doesn’t rule out the possibility that SSB could also beat Gohan.

But idk, Gohan could have just gotten stupidly powerful in under 3 days of training with someone weaker than an SSGod after years of training.

[Hugo Boss]

Gohan could have just gotten stupidly powerful in under 3 days of training with someone weaker than an SSGod after years of training.

After regaining his original strength, he actually needed less than 5 hours to reach god level.

[PFM18]

But a GREATLY disagree that Gohan was even approaching SSB Kaioken level in the fight between him and Goku. In fact, pretty sure he was still below SSB power. And the only reasons Goku went to SSB and then SSB Kaioken was because Gohan was asking him to go full power.

He survived struggling against SSB Kaioken (even if it's for a few more moments of conscious) and not died against, meaning he was clearly not sub-par to SSB (at least not the SSB's power level from before the ToP).

What? He was instantly one shot by SSB Kaioken?

[Rubens]

Regarding that specific fight between Gohan and Goku before the ToP my reasoning is that Goku, just like against the other recruits such as Krillin, was being condescending and probably held back, even though he used ssblue and later ssb combined with kaio-ken, as per his son's request otherwise Goku would probably keep butting heads as super saiyan (or 2 or 3, doesn't matter). Personally that's how he see it. As mentioned above, if Golden Freeza was stated to be on par with ssblue Goku and the first is stronger than "ultimate" Gohan, for me that's a way to fit things. One can argue that it's bad writing (and I think it is) but it's open for interpretation.

[PFM18]

Regarding that specific fight between Gohan and Goku before the ToP my reasoning is that Goku, just like against the other recruits such as Krillin, was being condescending and probably held back, even though he used ssblue and later ssb combined with kaio-ken, as per his son's request otherwise Goku would probably keep butting heads as super saiyan (or 2 or 3, doesn't matter). Personally that's how he see it. As mentioned above, if Golden Freeza was stated to be on par with ssblue Goku and the first is stronger than "ultimate" Gohan, for me that's a way to fit things. One can argue that it's bad writing (and I think it is) but it's open for interpretation.

Gohan very briefly exchanged with SSB, and was one shot by Kaioken. It is perfectly reasonable for Golden Freeza to be dead even with SSB Goku, and therefore, stronger than Gohan. Nothing explicitly shows that Gohan is also equal to SSB Goku, so it makes sense. Not bad writing.

Golden Freeza=SSB Goku>Ultimate Gohan

[AnimeNation101]

But a GREATLY disagree that Gohan was even approaching SSB Kaioken level in the fight between him and Goku. In fact, pretty sure he was still below SSB power. And the only reasons Goku went to SSB and then SSB Kaioken was because Gohan was asking him to go full power.

He survived struggling against SSB Kaioken (even if it's for a few more moments of conscious) and not died against, meaning he was clearly not sub-par to SSB (at least not the SSB's power level from before the ToP).

What? He was instantly one shot by SSB Kaioken?

Goku went SSBKK, and they charged at each other with one punch. Gohan in a matter of seconds ended up unconscious right after the punch. I don’t see how that would mean he ISN’T sub-par to SSB. In fact, all it shows is that SSBKK is overkill for beating Gohan and a weaker power could do the same, albeit, not as quick or with just one punch.

[Rubens]

Regarding that specific fight between Gohan and Goku before the ToP my reasoning is that Goku, just like against the other recruits such as Krillin, was being condescending and probably held back, even though he used ssblue and later ssb combined with kaio-ken, as per his son's request otherwise Goku would probably keep butting heads as super saiyan (or 2 or 3, doesn't matter). Personally that's how he see it. As mentioned above, if Golden Freeza was stated to be on par with ssblue Goku and the first is stronger than "ultimate" Gohan, for me that's a way to fit things. One can argue that it's bad writing (and I think it is) but it's open for interpretation.

Gohan very briefly exchanged with SSB, and was one shot by Kaioken. It is perfectly reasonable for Golden Freeza to be dead even with SSB Goku, and therefore, stronger than Gohan. Nothing explicitly shows that Gohan is also equal to SSB Goku, so it makes sense. Not bad writing.

Golden Freeza=SSB Goku>Ultimate Gohan

I pretty much agree; I've rewatched the fight and I take back my complaint about the writing (it's not perfect but it's fine in this context).

Most of the fight Goku uses super saiyan 2 from the start and he always has an edge over Gohan, despite the latter fighting back pretty well. From here I'd say Gohan is close to/around ss2 Goku. When Gohan fights him as ssblue and onwards, the exchange is too brief to claim Gohan was anywhere near that level; I believe Gohan in the end just wanted a taste of his father's full power.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Regarding that specific fight between Gohan and Goku before the ToP my reasoning is that Goku, just like against the other recruits such as Krillin, was being condescending and probably held back, even though he used ssblue and later ssb combined with kaio-ken, as per his son's request otherwise Goku would probably keep butting heads as super saiyan (or 2 or 3, doesn't matter). Personally that's how he see it. As mentioned above, if Golden Freeza was stated to be on par with ssblue Goku and the first is stronger than "ultimate" Gohan, for me that's a way to fit things. One can argue that it's bad writing (and I think it is) but it's open for interpretation.

Gohan very briefly exchanged with SSB, and was one shot by Kaioken. It is perfectly reasonable for Golden Freeza to be dead even with SSB Goku, and therefore, stronger than Gohan. Nothing explicitly shows that Gohan is also equal to SSB Goku, so it makes sense. Not bad writing.

Golden Freeza=SSB Goku>Ultimate Gohan

I pretty much agree; I've rewatched the fight and I take back my complaint about the writing (it's not perfect but it's fine in this context).

Most of the fight Goku uses super saiyan 2 from the start and he always has an edge over Gohan, despite the latter fighting back pretty well. From here I'd say Gohan is close to/around ss2 Goku. When Gohan fights him as ssblue and onwards, the exchange is too brief to claim Gohan was anywhere near that level; I believe Gohan in the end just wanted a taste of his father's full power.

To be fair, Goku was wondering why Gohan didn't use SS2 like him and presumably the 2 would've been equal in the same forms, and Gohan goes on to later power up to absolute max once Goku actually uses SSB against him.

[Hugo Boss]

When Gohan confronted Freeza, he didn’t suffer noticeable damage and was confident in taking him alone when Freeza suggested betrayal. That could imply Freeza was surpassed by Gohan or at least Gohan has a chance if he gets serious.

Goku and Vegeta as SSBlue were about on par with Top, who was stronger than Gohan and No.17.

Dyspo also required Gohan and Freeza working together to be defeated, but Top doesn’t see him superior in terms of combat skill.

So, when putting the strongest fighters from Universe 7 and Universe 11 against each other, that would result in something like this:

Jiren
Top/Dyspo/SSBlue (Goku and Vegeta)
Freeza/Gohan/No.17

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

When Gohan confronted Freeza, he didn’t suffer noticeable damage and was confident in taking him alone when Freeza suggested betrayal. That could imply Freeza was surpassed by Gohan or at least Gohan has a chance if he gets serious.

Goku and Vegeta as SSBlue were about on par with Top, who was stronger than Gohan and No.17.

Dyspo also required Gohan and Freeza working together to be defeated, but Top doesn’t see him superior in terms of combat skill.

So, when putting the strongest fighters from Universe 7 and Universe 11 against each other, that would result in something like this:

Jiren
Top/Dyspo/SSBlue (Goku and Vegeta)
Freeza/Gohan/No.17

I think that Golden Freeza is equal in strength to SSB Goku and Vegeta.

When using full strength, as seen with Toppo, SSB-level can easily toss Gohan and 17 around, though it can't just instantly stomp them either.

[Green_Goblin]

But a GREATLY disagree that Gohan was even approaching SSB Kaioken level in the fight between him and Goku. In fact, pretty sure he was still below SSB power. And the only reasons Goku went to SSB and then SSB Kaioken was because Gohan was asking him to go full power.

He survived struggling against SSB Kaioken (even if it's for a few more moments of conscious) and not died against, meaning he was clearly not sub-par to SSB (at least not the SSB's power level from before the ToP).

What? He was instantly one shot by SSB Kaioken?

Are you stating or asking? FTR I have read the rest of the comments but I will just post what is fact regarding this quote here: Goku used SSB against Gohan and both tasted each other's hits, if Gohan was at Android 17's level of power he would not have gone so far to bring up Kaioken (a multiplier), even if it was just times 3 of the given power level he had just used as a SSB. Meaning Gohan is in the very least at SSB tier by then.

The writing of Frieza being too OP whener he shows up again is just a constent result of bad writing in the sake of hyping him. GoD Mode Toppo stomped him even in his Golden form, but in DBS: Broly we are suppose to believe he's many times stronger than his ToP self and FAR ABOVE SSB Goku and Vegeta as he managed to survive a beatdown by SSJ Broly for an hour. Serious, this is not an indicator for a consistent power scaling, sadly.