Vegeta family > Goku family in terms of character development

[Kishido]

It's actually awesome how the whole Vegeta family developed to the better after all these years compared to Goku's.

Bulma is not the spoiled woman as she was before. He caring so much for Future Trunks right now is really nice... Best woman in the series
Kid Trunks seems to get some development now with Future Trunks around him. And he at least has someone with Mai besides Goten...
Future Trunks is still by far the best written character in this series. Everything about his character is not only understandable but also very well told.
And Daddy Vegeta became fro the cocky asshoel who cared about nobody to a beloving family man. He started at the Buu saga and now him seeing being so pissed at Black killing Future Bulma and beating Future Trunks is just awesome... Just compare his interaction with them to the Cell saga.

Now let us look at the Goku family. I will rule out Videl and Satan... Both are actually really good in my eyes.
Starting with Chi Chi... I think she is really one of the worst women I have ever seen in the manga. I simply can't stand her. Where is the Chi Chi from original DB?
Goten... I think no one cares about him. The only purpose of him is being a friend for Trunks. He has nothing unique about him and now in Super he is magically shrinking. Hell not even Trunks cares currently about him and he has not interaction with him.
Gohan... I think I have said enoug in the other threads... He plays the smart one but actually is the other... Dunno if he is the worst written character or his dad...
Goku... He is so annoying in Super. Yeah he is super strong and likes to fight people but come on... He learned nothing so far and still plays the overconfident person who plays with opponents and not stopping the problem. Once the earth was because of his stuff saved by Whis but now the same again with Black... And same for his "childish" stupidness which is potrayed in Super even more. I want some serious Goku back and not just the I want to fight Goku

[Grimlock]

Well, in Vegeta's family we don't have character development for King Vegeta, Bra (not counting Dragon Ball GT, and even if I was... Is there character development for her there?), and Tarble. Everything comes down to Vegeta, Bulma, Trunks (a little of Tights and her parents), and now Future Trunks.

While in Goku's family there's no character development for Bardock, Gine, and Goten. I do think there's nothing more we could do with Raditz, everything about him was shown in his not-so-brief moment when he came to Earth. It all comes down to Goku, Chi-Chi, and Gohan. So yeah, I agree with the topic. It's just bad Toriyama will insist on giving character development to the ones that don't need anymore and leaving aside the others that deserve it.

[Kishido]

Well, in Vegeta's family we don't have character development for King Vegeta, Bra (not counting Dragon Ball GT, and even if I was... Is there character development for her there?), and Tarble. Everything comes down to Vegeta, Bulma, Trunks (and a little of Tights and her parents), and now Future Trunks.

While in Goku's family there's no character development for Bardock, Gine, and Goten. I do think there's nothing more we could do with Raditz, everything about him was shown in his not-so-brief moment when he came to Earth. It all comes down to Goku, Chi-Chi, and Gohan. So yeah, I agree with the topic. It's just bad Toriyama will insist on giving character development to the ones that don't need anymore and leaving aside the others that deserve it.

Wasn't it clear that I was talking about the rpesent (future Trunks) characters

[z_cherub]

You might have a point if you're only talking about the present state of affairs.

The fact is, though, when you back up & look at the whole series, Gohan's development was pretty great. From whiney toddler to strongest in the world / reluctant hero was great development - particularly his relationship with Piccolo. I'm not a Gohan fanboy (don't care if he's ever relevant again), but that was pretty well written for a Shonen.

We've seen Goku grow from a carefree child to a man that (while still humorously ignornat) has demonstrated not only a love for fighting, but a love for the people around him (see Freeza fight & death of Upa's dad).

Chi Chi is poorly written, granted. It's unfair to judge Goten as he's only a kid that's been around for a few arcs.

[Kishido]

You might have a point if you're only talking about the present state of affairs.

The fact is, though, when you back up & look at the whole series, Gohan's development was pretty great. From whiney toddler to strongest in the world / reluctant hero was great development - particularly his relationship with Piccolo. I'm not a Gohan fanboy (don't care if he's ever relevant again), but that was pretty well written for a Shonen.

We've seen Goku grow from a carefree child to a man that (while still humorously ignornat) has demonstrated not only a love for fighting, but a love for the people around him (see Freeza fight & death of Upa's dad).

Chi Chi is poorly written, granted. It's unfair to judge Goten as he's only a kid that's been around for a few arcs.

Gohan was very well written until Buu saga. Take his cheap power up and he made the same mistake over the years after Cell like right now. Only think nice about him is his loving interaction with Pan.

Yeah EoZ Goku actually was really nice... But right now it is awesome.

While the Vegeta family are still progressing as character the Goku instead go the other way... And damn where is the loving grandpa Goku? Currently it seems he is giving absolutely no damn about any of his family

[dragonballhero]

I think the Briefs family are progressing for the better as well. I should mention, Vegeta more or less still kept his "overconfidence", but it's nowhere near the idiotic level he had in the Androids arc or Goku's level. Also, we shouldn't forget that Bulma she never did exactly grow past the "hot-headed phase." as much as we think. It's definitely still there, even in Super. Not to mention, it almost gets her into big trouble with Frieza and Beerus. Compared to Chi-Chi though, she's slightly better off.

[Alee9977]

Saying Gohan has the worst character development is subjectly.
I like his progession, he is doing what he always wanted to. I like chichi when she is worried about his family. And when Goku gets serious is the only way I like him.

[Kishido]

Saying Gohan has the worst character development is subjectly.
I like his progession, he is doing what he always wanted to. I like chichi when she is worried about his family. And when Goku gets serious is the only way I like him.

No one say Gohan shouldn't do what he wants to... I absolutely love the Videl scene as well.

But as I pointed out in the threads... Gohan should have been smart enough even after Cell arc where his father sacrafized for him and has given him the earth to protect... Instead he slacked off. Buu happened if not for Papa Goku same would happen again... What happened... He slacked off even more.

Now RoF where we all hoped he would go to train as he said to get a bit back of his former glory... Nope he still is nothing.

Again... he should have a happy family and everything and he hasn't to get to RoSaT all time or training 24h the day... But after he went through more than once he should do better for the sake of his family... Instead he still relies that Daddy Goku will always be there while knowing his potential.

And this weeks episode he even was ignorant to Trunks not noticing that Trunks is all torn up... if not for Videl he would never get that he forgot to ask why Trunks got back in time.

[Lord Beerus]

Vegeta's family getting more character development than Goku's family is very debatable. Vegeta's character certainly thorough a lot of development before he was given a definitive characterisation, but that not say that Goku himself didn't get any development at all. I mean, Goku's training with Kami made him learn and understand the concept of mercy, and during the Freeza arc Goku came to accept and even embrace his Saiyan heritage after being disgusted about it when he learnt just how much of cruel bastard his brother Raditz was. And during the Cell arc Goku came to understand that the world could survive without him.

As for the sons (Gohan, Future Trunks and Kid Trunks), the Saiyan arc filler did wonder for Gohan's character making you appreciate much more than how the manga portrayed it, just how much of a backbone he grew and how he realised just how much he had the accept certain responsibilities. Although, it may be upsetting to some fans that Gohan never really kept his promise to keep training and keep remaining stronger, it is within character as he never like fighting or training to begin with. Future Trunks, I've already stated in the past is one of the most well rounded characters in the franchise, has the best backstory, and Super has done a fantastic job of expanding on his character, so he's an open and shut case. But Kid Trunks, on the other hand, has gotten zero development since his debut, even with his new "relationship" with "Kid" Mai.

And Bulma quite frankly hasn't really gone through any kind of character development. Her characterisation has largely remained the same since her debut. Chi Chi's characterisation has never really found a level footing. One day she may be relaxed and other days she acts like an unbearably annoying bitch.

[Kishido]

Vegeta's family getting more character development than Goku's family is very debatable. Vegeta's character certainly thorough a lot of development before he was given a definitive characterisation, but that not say that Goku himself didn't get any development at all. I mean, Goku's training with Kami made him learn and understand the concept of mercy, and during the Freeza arc Goku came to accept and even embrace his Saiyan heritage after being disgusted about it when he learnt just how much of cruel bastard his brother Raditz was. And during the Cell arc Goku came to understand that the world could survive without him.

As for the sons (Gohan, Future Trunks and Kid Trunks), the Saiyan arc filler did wonder for Gohan's character making you appreciate much more than how the manga portrayed it, just how much of a backbone he grew and how he realised just how much he had the accept certain responsibilities. Although, it may be upsetting to some fans that Gohan never really kept his promise to keep training and keep remaining stronger, it is within character as he never like fighting or training to begin with. Future Trunks, I've already stated in the past is one of the most well rounded characters in the franchise, has the best backstory, and Super has done a fantastic job of expanding on his character, so he's an open and shut case. But Kid Trunks, on the other hand, has gotten zero development since his debut, even with his new "relationship" with "Kid" Mai.

And Bulma quite frankly hasn't really gone through any kind of character development. Her characterisation has largely remained the same since her debut. Chi Chi's characterisation has never really found a level footing. One day she may be relaxed and other days she acts like an unbearably annoying bitch.

You are contradicting yourself. Goku sacrafized himself at the Cell saga saying it is better with him dead and Gohan is there. In the Buu saga he even repeated that the next generation should protect earth... And that's where the bad story telling begins for at least Gohan.

Nope he could handle shit... The kid are kids. But Gohan simply slacked off after the words of hsi father with the hope that no badie ever will come to the earth again?

And yeah Goku was actually at Z besides some bad stuff but in Super he is plain bad character acting like an idiot... It's not even funny... Compare him at the tournament saga of Buu and hoe he was behaving compared to now.

Vegeta is the difference. He from an absolute cocky a..hole with ego stuff which have been close to result of the destruction of earth to now.

And you still seem to misunderstand this thread... I'm looking at the past till now. While the Vegetas progressed the Goku's has become worse. Happy Gohan is all fine as I said but doesn't mean it is smart by knowing his past.

PS
At Kid Trunks... he still got more as Goten. I don't even know if Goten was ever needed in this franchise besides the fusion stuff, which is now a joke as well

[Lord Beerus]

You are contradicting yourself. Goku sacrafized himself at the Cell saga saying it is better with him dead and Gohan is there. In the Buu saga he even repeated that the next generation should protect earth... And that's where the bad story telling begins for at least Gohan.

Part of the reason he chose to stay dead was also because Gohan had become so much stronger than him and that, even in his absence, Goku knew that the planet would be safe on Gohan's hands because of how powerful he had become.

Nope he could handle shit... The kid are kids. But Gohan simply slacked off after the words of hsi father with the hope that no badie ever will come to the earth again?

As I already stated, Gohan had no real interest in training, as he had already, for all intents and purposes, peaked in terms strength through conventional training methods. Besides, he wanted to focus solely on his education in his bid to become a scholar, something that was main priority for him since his debut.

And yeah Goku was actually at Z besides some bad stuff but in Super he is plain bad character acting like an idiot... It's not even funny... Compare him at the tournament saga of Buu and hoe he was behaving compared to now.

Goku has always acted like an idiot at one stage or another throughout the story. I could list several example of Goku acting like an idiot in the manga that are far worse that what has happened in Super. And even what's happened in Super, with Goku acting like an idiot, is usually played for laughs and happens every once in a while. I think people really over-exaggerate the whole "Goku is an idiot" deal in Super.

And you still seem to misunderstand this thread... I'm looking at the past till now. While the Vegetas progressed the Goku's has become worse. Happy Gohan is all fine as I said but doesn't mean it is smart by knowing his past.

Actually, you seem to fail the acknowledge certain circumstances of the past for certain characters that play as key factors as to how certain characters act like they do now.

At Kid Trunks... he still got more as Goten. I don't even know if Goten was ever needed in this franchise besides the fusion stuff, which is now a joke as well

Kid Trunks Having "Kid" Mai as girlfriend, a relationship that more than half the time isn't even acknowledge in-universe, doesn't really count that much as having more than Goten

[Kishido]

You are contradicting yourself. Goku sacrafized himself at the Cell saga saying it is better with him dead and Gohan is there. In the Buu saga he even repeated that the next generation should protect earth... And that's where the bad story telling begins for at least Gohan.

Part of the reason he chose to stay dead was also because Gohan had become so much stronger than him and that, even in his absence, Goku knew that the planet would be safe on Gohan's hands because of how powerful he had become.

Nope he could handle shit... The kid are kids. But Gohan simply slacked off after the words of hsi father with the hope that no badie ever will come to the earth again?

As I already stated, Gohan had no real interest in training, as he had already, for all intents and purposes, peaked in terms strength through conventional training methods. Besides, he wanted to focus solely on his education in his bid to become a scholar, something that was main priority for him since his debut.

Let us simply agree to disagree on Goku in the Z and now... Same goes for Goten

but this statement is the reason why Gohan sucks. You yourself said Goku left the world in Gohan hands... And now I ask you what happened to Gohan? He shitted on it and now is doing it again

[buutenks]

Gohan not training during the 7 years of peace makes sense. Cell the biggest baddie was defeated. I doubt hed thought an enemy even more powerful could even be possible.

Living with the idea that i must keep on training because maybe someone will come and i will need to defeat him so i must be strong is a dumb thing, u basically lock yourself up and become your own slave. What if that someone comes when u already passed away? Eh, earth is screwed basically.

Plus goku and vegeta dont train because they must protect earth, they train cos they enjoy it and want to become stronger. Goku had 0 reason to train in the afterlife if he just wanted to be stronger, to protect earth. He was dead and earth was not of his concern anymore. But he did it anyways, cos even in death goku wants to be stronger. And vegeta most likely couldnt accept that some kid surpassed him so he trained his ass off.

basically all of them train for selfish reasons, that also helps earth by chance.

Also, u people seem to think, if gohan did some easy training hed be some uber powerful monster lol . If he did easy training daily, buu would have still salpped him silly. U need hard intense training like goku and vegeta does, basically u need to train most of your time and then rest allot. Gohan would severely dislike this, and would proly give up after a few days, since there would be no one pushing him from behind to keep on training.

So how gohan turned out is only the natural course that a person with his personality could take.

[The_Destroyer]

Kid Trunks seems to get some development now with Future Trunks around him. And he at least has someone with Mai besides Goten...

This is why Black should have been Goten. It may have needed a retcon, but it would have totally added some interesting character development for Goten. Hell, it could have had an effect on Goten and Trunks's friendship. Ah the possibilities.

[Dbzfan94]

I care about Goten

[Rip the Jacker]

Gohan in Z had the best character development of anyone in this entire series. It's a complete shame that we're losing such a big piece of the franchises history in super. Vegeta was always my favorite charcater, but gohan's development more often than not really drove the story and added another much needed dynamic to the show. Show falls off a cliff without Gohan's character present.

Vegeta, Trunks, and Freeza have the best back stories imo.

[DBZAOTA482]

Dr. Briefs and Panty are nothing but quirks. Tight practically doesn't exist and Present Trunks is just as bland as Goten.

I only agree with Vegeta's character development being better. And maybe Future Trunks since Gohan is practically Yamcha 2.0 nowadays.

Also, fuck Bulma x Vegeta. It gets too much unnecessary attention in Super.

[ryou766]

I despise Goten as a character, and I don't particularly find Gohan interesting at all. Chichi is very annoying, Goku is Goku.

I love Bulma X Vegeta and its progression. Mirai Trunks is my favorite character, yet don't care for Present Trunks. I enjoy Vegeta's family more than Goku's.

[Kishido]

I bump this up

Vegeta makes me homo this episode... Awesome guy.

Same for his whole family... At least all of them are useful and not like Goku's family.

Hell even Scratch has more screentime as Goten.

Now seriously... I know Bulma is there from the start and everything. But TOEI and even Toriyama giving a crap about the Goku family is just sad... No one of them is of any use anymore

PS
Of course not Pan. She is gold <3

[FortuneSSJ]

Counting with Super/GT, it's not a competition because the other three from Goku's family are terribly written.

Chichi is more annoying than ever.
Gohan is trash, that doesn't get stronger to protect his own family despite what happened with Freeza in ROF. His brain could still be useful to the plot like Bulma's even though he doesn't want to fight, but not even that.
Goten is...Where's Goten?!

Just with DB/DBZ, I guess it's a tie.