Kanzenshuu

Sooo, haven't really had time to keep up with what's happening, did we ever reach a consensus on where Goku and Vegeta stand in base form?

After seeing ep 42, saw it a few moments ago, i dont see how one can say base goku is ssj3 tier. Beerus says he wants to finish it quickly and powers up, plus whis stops them saying if they want to destroy the earth. Beerus was finger flicking ssj3 goku without even powering up, yet he powers up vs...

Whis with his staff going as quickly as he could got to a planet in 60 seconds Beerus then flies to his planet to the same planet Whis is on in 80 seconds therefore Beerus is comparable to Whis staff. Oh my … as Whis would have said. I completely overlooked that Beerus was actually in his planet wh...

But doesn't the anime take precedence over the manga in this case? I feel like it makes even less sense to try to make sense of something that Toriyama didn't even write, ala GT.

I can agree with that. I have even used a few numbers that support the idea that Fat Buu is closer to the level of a SSJ2 than a SSJ3, and that Super Buu represented a similar increase to the latter (4 times higher). Super Buu = SSJ3 Gotenks = 640 Kid Buu = SSJ3 Goku = 400 Fat Buu = 160 Majin Veget...

Hmm, I thought SSJ was about as strong as Goku when he first went SSG? Did something new happen to show that's not the case? Didn't think there was such a big gap between SSG and SSB.

Considering how fast his power ran out, I'm sure it's just because his Golden form is already at full power. It was untrained and such, kind of like untrained SSJ was always at full power without needing to power up.

That's not a solution. The unstoppable force did not move the immovable object, and the immovable object did not stop the unstoppable force. Why does the force have to move the object? Why can't it simply go through the object without stopping? Why does the immovable object have to stop the force? ...

That "Can God lift the rock?" paradox is easily counterable. Can an unstoppable force move an immovable object? Answer: No, because if there is an unstoppable force, there are no such thing as an immovable object, and vice-versa. It's the same thing. That's not a solution to the paradox, ...

Toriyama himself has said in his recent interviews http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/volume-f-akira-toriyama-script-comments/ that he uses characters as narration. And in EVERY SINGLE FORM OF MEDIA that that scene has appeared in, that statement has been in it. Why would they mindlessly repeat ...

Why would that line be put in every single time in all forms of media, if we are not supposed to take it as fact? Jesus, with you people, Toriyama could literally have Freeza at 100% full power, wish on the Dragon Balls to restrict Goku from ever transforming, fight and defeat him in base, and you w...

Alright haven't been keeping up here, why do I see the majority of people on Reddit claiming that Goku got 50x stronger?

Honestly, the best in-universe answer I can think of is precisely that humans in DB are stupid, which is a shame. 300 years ago for us would be during the time of the colonization and exploration, which is very heavily documented. A global terror like Piccolo? He would most definitely go down in his...

Does anyone else wish we could get some comparison statements to have even a hint of a clue where the hell anyone stands in relation to one another? Even GT at least gave you an idea where Rild stands so you can even have some basis to jump off of. With all this God stuff, everyone's just vaguely s...

Hold on I haven't had time to watch the episode yet. Why is everyone saying Frost is below Goku and then saying Frost beats Goku?

I remembered something Toriyama said recently which may render the entire "debate" even more moot than it already is. Not only are power level gap rules baloney in general, but it seems they're a little extra baloney when it comes to Saiyans: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/battle-...

All Ginyu did was bring out Tagoma's full powers which he was previously hiding when he fought Piccolo. Which means that Togima must have already on that level, which is still just silly. Unless, you are saying that Ginyu's body swap technqu automatically gives his victims a 10000x increase? Tagoma...

I just feel like the numbers Toriyama chose were pretty awful and way too close together to accurately use. He definitely wasn't thinking people would go all mathematical with those numbers and scale them and all that.

Wait, Saitama can survive in space too apparently lol. He jumped from the moon back to the Earth. Not saying he wouldn't get xeeleestomped by Beerus taking a fart in his general direction, but yea.

Dude, if they're omnipotent, then why are they only nigh-omniscient and get stopped? They're omnipotent, they're all powerful, they can do whatever they want, including becoming fully omniscient. You don't seem to understand the meaning of your words. "True" omnipotence is what omnipotence...